Technosprt 6.75mm Shaft Combo question

Marwan · Sep 10, 2005

I have the 6.75 mm shaft for an omer 100 carbon, I am contemplating what would be the best bands to use on it, in terms of power/accuracy combo the choices i am thinking of are:

1) Bulk tubing 20 mm with a dyneema or stainless steel bridle. I like this because of the added power (by using 20 mm) as well as the perceived ease of loading (from using dyneema bridles). Its extra work though I dont know if it is worth it or simply, choice number 2.

2) The Omer 18mm power bands. would the articulated wishbones work well with the mini sharkfin tabs on the 6.75.

I do have a rail (made by omer) already on my gun, to avoid spearwhip in case of extra power.

Tell me your thougts/recommendations

Murat · Sep 10, 2005

OMER power 18mm length of 25-26 cm. Had used smillar setup with 6.5mm shafts on my old Omer allu. 100. Of course i don't know the specific weight of those 6.75 technosport shafts compared to standart omer shafts. I have feelings that omer's shafts are bit lighter than other higer quality shafts. Personally i preffer to use 6.25 in med here. If you are not confident about the penetration of 6.25mm shaft or for those who always need moer "PUNCH" power i will tell you this, my buddy shot 13-15kg grouper with 6.25 shaft just between the eyes and spear exit from the tail Kinda sis kebab rofl

Mark Laboccetta · Sep 10, 2005

Marwan, that's a good question.

In the most recent issue of Hawaii Skin Diver, the best spearfishing magazine in the USA in my opinion, they did an in depth test of ten or more Euro style guns. One thing they noticed was that a 100cm T-20 with stock 18mm bands and an upgraded 6.75mm Technosport sharkfin shaft did not have the same accuracy and speed as the stock 6.5mm shaft.

Having said that I think your consideration of a 20mm band, bulk rubber or screw in set of 20's, is a good idea. You already have a stick on rail so the offset pull of the bands won't effect the accuracy.

I have a 110 T-20 Mimetic I use with the same setup you described and it hits the nail on the head every time.

On another note, our weather is going to crap this week with a hurricane out as sea for the better part of the week so if you have any more questions shoot-away

Mark

Marwan · Sep 10, 2005

Thanks Mark,
I will either go back to the stock shaft (6.5 mm) and keep the 18 mm shaft or move to the 20 mm bulk rubber (most likely). About the bulk rubber, I have the stainless steel bulk rubber screw in adaptors (for the muzzle). I have a couple of questions:
1) In terms of order of setup , do i assemble the bulk rubber into the muzzle, on both ends and then when im done, attach the dynema bridle. Does it work in that sequence?
2) Would i use a dynema bridle or a stainless steel one? If i go with the Dynema, what would you recommend i do , to minimze the chances of dynema tearing up against the fin tabs.

Thanks Mark, its great to see you handle all these qustions in person, Cheers

Murat · Sep 10, 2005

if you seek out for band test of Omer made itself with a aid of Beretta ballistic depertment you will see that there is no difference between omer's 18mm and 20mm bands, actually according to that test 18mm ones gives more kinetic energy to spear. In that manner i did not quite understand how 6.75 mm shaft will be more accurate with 20mm :hmm

Mark Laboccetta · Sep 10, 2005

Hi Marwan,

1. I've never used those adapters but I would do it like you guessed. Cut the rubber in perfectly even sizes and slide them onto the knuckles and then tie them and snug them. Pull hard on the rubbers past where the notches are to make sure they don't slip before you go through all the trouble of tying on the wishbone. When you have both sides tied into the muzzle tie the soft wishbone one side at a time and pull hard after each knot to make sure that it doesn't slip either. Use a double over hand knot on the soft wishbone material.

2. I don't reccomend steel cable wishbones, especially with that very thick strong rubber if it slips when you're pulling it back, even wearing gloves, you can sever you finger. SS cable is like a saw with speed. The articulated wishbones hurt less than those. Therefore I reccomend a soft wishbone material like heavy duty dyneema of at least 2mm+ or the 1200lb spectra like I use sometimes. The other option, and in my opinion the best since you're only going to use one band, is a spherical wishbone like the Omer 6500. That wan't break easily and it has the balls already installed at the base of the wishbones. It's what I use since the low profile sharkfins are somewhat sharp and if you plan to use a soft wishbone material other than cable you'll need to hand file them until they're smooth. That's the other reason I use the 6500's, because if I'm in a hurry and have to replace a shaft and have the soft wishbones I'll need to file the sharkfins smooth again for every new shaft with either notches or the LP sharkfins.

Sorry for the long reply but I've been through all these scenarios already (in the worst possible times too) and worked out what's best for me

Murat, tests aside 20mm bands have a lot more "sudden" punch than 18's, like the difference between more gradual and constant 16's and 18's, the reason the thicker bands do better on the thicker shafts on single band apps.

Don't worry about the Q's, it's always a pleasure when I'm free. -Mark

Marwan · Sep 11, 2005

Thanks Mark,
will let you know the result. I did try tying my bands yesterday (for the first time), i could only pull that constrictor knot to a certain point and then its very hard, I think it needs to be pulled in more though. I have 20 mm bands that i got from rabitech, originally for my apex carbon 120. Very decent rubber. I will go with the dyneema and hand filing the tabs, but i will order a brass sphere wishbone from spearfishinggear in case i keep ripping the dyneemas and get bored with all the filing. will let you know how it works out.
I guess you are using circular bands, with an open muzzle. I kind of like the orginal euro setup, seems more accurate. Rabitech sort of has a mix of circular/euro band to get the best of both worlds.

Murat, I guess personal experience is the mother of all tests, i will let you know the diffeences from both setups when i get to use them (probably in a couple of weeks)

Cheers

Marwan · Sep 11, 2005

Murat,
For groupers specifically , i like a thicker shaft, has nothing to do with penetration power, but rather with shaft saving. I guess yor buddy got a kill shot on that 14 kg gruper. Last summer a 7 kg grouper bent my 6.5 mm shaft!, it was shot behind the head and when it darted back into the cave it managed to slightly bend my shaft. Thats why I decided to go for a thicker one, and at the same time not too thick.
2 weeks ago i shot a 10 kg grouper with my riffe c1 (7mm shaft) no problemo.
I would imagine he 6.3 mm shaft with 18 mm bands on a light euro gun to be a deadly combo for MEd fish like sea bream, mullet, etc... where you need quick tracking and a small hole in the fish (as it is not too big a fish)

Murat · Sep 11, 2005

we use 6.5 mm shafts here to. Even small gorupers can bend 6.5mm shaft, its all depends the how you shoot the fish. If it bends 6.25 probably it can bent 6.5mm too. When you shoot the grouper from side, even on the head, there is a great chance that it can bent the spear. If the fish don't bend it you will do it while trying to take the fish out, especially if the enterance of the cave is small. We try to make a shoot from the front direct between eyes. If the situation force me for a side shoot, i consider the size of the fish, enterance of the cave and what will be the position of the fish after i shoot it, then i think about the shaft. Even if the fish or i bend it, its not a great hassle to make it straight afterwards. You don't see grouper here everyday bigger than 3-4 kg :hmm Its even harder to bend short spear, i have 6.25 on my 80cm gun and shoot it about everywhere, to rocks to groupers whatever and it hold very well. Its something to do with the quality ofthe shaft. 6.3mm omer shafts are not good at all, i bent two of them on 4 shoot to rocks, they bent benath the flopper and its pain in the back to straighten them. I use EUROSUB spears and they are far better than OMER, i think devoto is good one to, you can try it. What i am tryting to say is quality 6.25 mm shaft will last much longer than 6.5mm omer shaft, i know from that personal experiance, i spent considerable amount money to 6.5 and 6.3 mm omer shafts. God thanks i am happy now with EUROSUB spears.

Marwan · Sep 11, 2005

ok i ve been fighting with dynema tying line for the past hour trying to make my own bands :ko and failing miserably , i decided the 18 mm bands are much better than the 20 mm and more accurate

Kev · Sep 11, 2005

I have been trying to get hold of a good quality 6.25 spears,notched and shark fin. Can anyone give me a web address for someone who will be able to send some to the UK. Thanks

Mark Laboccetta · Sep 11, 2005

Marwan said:
ok i ve been fighting with dynema tying line for the past hour trying to make my own bands :ko and failing miserably , i decided the 18 mm bands are much better than the 20 mm and more accurate

eh! and imagine when they break and you are on a spearfishing trip and you have to retie them in a hurry. Consider a pair of Omer 20mm screw in bands and a regular wishbone, and keep the others as backup, it will be much less hassle for you. There's even a little wrench available now for unscrewing the bands on and off with ease, if you get a pair from someone in the US let them know I told you I'd comp you one and I'll make sure you get it.

Murat, believe it or not the Omer shafts are all 17-4PH, the best stainless steel used in the industry by most American mfg's too. Having noticed the same thing you noticed several years and being as stubborn as I am, I insisted with Omer to let me know what kind of SS they were using and they passed me a copy of a chemical analysis test from their steel supplier. It's 17-ph4, the best stainless used for wide application high end spring production which are P-Precipitation H-hardened after working to bring them to the proper stiffness/flexibility combination. I forget what the 17-4 signifies, I think it's it's chrome to carbon content in the metal or something.

Where the differences in performance you are talking about may come from is the actual hardening process post machining, it could have something to do
with how long they are hardened and left to cool off compared to some others. Devoto's shafts made of the same SS are very good, I remember because we imported some a long time ago and I used them, his barbs leave to be desired for. Our Technosport shafts are hand selected batches with the best of both worlds, the same 17-4ph and hardening process as Devoto's, but with LP sharkfins and very nice barbs.

Mark

Mark Laboccetta · Sep 11, 2005

ps by the way Murat, 6.25mm is referred to as 1/4" in States- so thin it's only good for small fish less than 5lbs here. Sure you can land a big fish with it and not bend it but you better be good, not to mention the penetration power suffers horribly compared to a thicker shaft. Your 6.25 or 6.3mm shafts may be tougher but I wonder how much? after all it's still 1/4". I compared Omer's 6.3mm shafts to the Technosport 1/4" exact copy in our select material and could not find any noticeable difference, my word.

Kev, you may find the 6.25mm's in Europe but notched, definitely hard to find shark finned. The problem with sharkfins on such thin material is that they invariably bend easily when welding. The heat applied stresses the shaft at the fins easily knocking them out of whack which is why I think notches are better. 6.75mm seems to be the thinnest material sharkfins can be used on without running into this problem.

Mark

Marwan · Sep 11, 2005

MArk,
I see what you mean
I looked for the 20mm at spearfishinggear (where i do most of my shopping) but couldnt find them, do you sell stuff directly from technosport?

miles · Sep 11, 2005

Hiya

I've got a 6.75mm and a 7.1mm Technosport SS spears. Both of them is very high quality. I remember showing them to Rabitech when i bought them, and he was VERY impressed with their quality!! I can HIGHLY recommend the Technsport shafts. (Haven't bent them yet!!)

Bottom line is that if you're going after bigger fish, then you simply must be properly equiped. The 6.3mm spears is generally designed for a single 16mm band which will give you great accuracy, which is what many spearo's are looking for when hunting small fish. I've landed a couple of 10kg Yellowtails on my 6.3mm Rabitech shaft and have also suffered from a bent spear. so, if you're hunting smaller fish and something bigger comes along............well, regardless of what make 6.3mm spear you're using, its most likely going to be trashed!!!

ps. try not shooting into rocks. They don't taste that good!!! and they bugger your spear up pretty quickly!!

Regards
miles

Fondueset · Sep 11, 2005

I'm thinking of picking up a gun for fresh water. Been looking at Riffe's but they are expensive. Need some range however - visibility is never less than 3 meters, and during optimum season is over ten. Fast, unfriendly prey - but fairly soft. Avg 5lbs or so.

Marwan · Sep 12, 2005

Fondueset,
sounds like you need a fast tracker, if i were you i would look at euro guns, like the omer, in carbonfibre, probably a length 100-115 would be appropriate for that sort of viz. the T20 millenium carbon and excalibur 200 carbonium by Omer are very good guns, you could also look at Beuchat mundial carbon. THe new Beuchats have an integrated rail that will ease your power upgrades Excellent guns

Murat · Sep 12, 2005

Mark,

I belive you that OMER uses high quality stainless steel but i wasted fair amount of OMER shaft while shooting around rocks, i did not had any problem since i switched to those 6.25mm. They really resist much more to bending compared to omer 6.3 and 6.5mm ones. Do you also sell 6.25mm shaft? could you please send the prices to me?

I noticed no difference penetraition wise between 6.25 and 6.5 of course 6.5 have greater mass for penetration bu remmember its also going slower than 6.25. If you recall kinetic energy formula which is all matter at the end of the day since its that energy delivers to fish to penetrate, it 1/2 mv^2, you see that velocity increase effect much more than kinetic energy than mass increase, you may think 6.25 will loose its speed earlier but how long are the shoot we make with speargun anyway?? in the most extreme situation spear will not fly more than 3.5 meters to reach the target (for single band single wrap setup). So there won't be enough time for 6.25mm spear loose its speed thus kinetic energy.Not to mention that 6.25mm spear has less firiction as well. You know that friction is much more important in water than in air, since the water is more dense and will absorb more enrgy of the spear and will make it faster. At the end of the day i like ballistic quality of 6.25mm much better than 6.5mm for single band-single wrap setups. They hold quite good band power too compared to 6mm ones, MILES i am using 6.25mm with OMER 18mm and i can assure you they are accurate with that setup too. I must admit that my bands are little longer on 110 but my bands on 80cm (not tube length like omer's new measuring standart, 80cm band strech length to second notch!!) gun is almost spot on for being 20-21cm.

Mark Laboccetta · Sep 12, 2005

I can HIGHLY recommend the Technsport shafts. (Haven't bent them yet!!)

Hi Miles, I thought you and some others might like to see our new Mid-size sharkfin shafts. We had these specifically made to complement the elegant and unique Master America's on which they come stock in the 115 and 130 sizes.

These are the first full size sharkfin shafts for European gun mechanisms. The sharkfins are smaller than Riffe's but bigger than the low profile sharkfins so, unlike the low profile sharkfins, they will not clear the majority of closed muzzles. The sharkfins are also welded and rounded smooth to accept soft wishbones without cutting them since these longer Master's come with two pairs of bands with soft wishbones.

Aside from the new shark fins the tip comes with either an Omer low profile barb for killer accuracy, or two barbs that fold into each other aerodynamically for unrivaled holding ability as close to a slip tip as a barb shaft can get. The double barb cost about $10 more than the single, then we have an 8mm shaft with 6mm threads for a slip tip to fit a 130 gun.

The three new shafts are:
7.1mm x 160cm for 115 or 120 gun
7.1mm x 170cm for 130's
8mm x 160cm w/6mm threads
(extra barb config. optional)

Here are some picts,

Mark Laboccetta · Sep 12, 2005

Fondueset said:
I'm thinking of picking up a gun for fresh water. Been looking at Riffe's but they are expensive. Need some range however - visibility is never less than 3 meters, and during optimum season is over ten. Fast, unfriendly prey - but fairly soft. Avg 5lbs or so.

Hello Fondueset,

It sounds like you should look into a 75cm. 3 meters/10ft is the perfect range for a 75cm. I wouldn't look into anything bigger because you'll like the feel of a smaller gun like that at close range which will give you more of a handgun feel compared to a longer gun that will be like a rifle.

When I bought my first band gun after using pneumatics I made the big mistake of getting in over my head and bought a 110 even though the clear visibility of Sardinia warranted it. I found myself trying to manuever this big gun in close quarters at quick small fish and it was very awkward and as a result I missed a lot. I went and took it back to the shop and they let me exchange it for a 90cm. I was so much happier and I could control it much better. I got a 110 two years later after I had mastered the range and limitations of the 90.

Two guns you may want to consider are the Excalibur 75cm which comes with 16mm bands or the T-20 75cm which comes with 18mm bands. They have slightly different handles depending on your taste but the T-20 is harder to load since the bands are thicker, nearly 3/4" compared to the 5/8" of the 16mm's. Both will have MORE than adequate power for your needs.

Mark

Technosprt 6.75mm Shaft Combo question

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