Terminology Overdose

[vjanda]

Greetz to all.
I'm still looking to get a wetsuit for spearfishing but I'm somewhat baffled by all the different materials on offer.

I basically want a comfortable durable suit that won't rip in the first reef contact or decompose after a couple of seasons use.

Oh, something that doesn't require 50 liters of soapy water to slip into is also a plus


From what I can see with most tailor made suites there are options for the interior and exterior meterials.


Here are some combos I came across that make no sense whatsoever :



1 - Black coating cell inside/ Superstretch nylon black outside
2 - Black coating smooth inside / Superstretch nylon black outside
- *Smoothskin black / Black coating cell

4 - SuperSmoothskin Slide Back/ Open slide cell

YAMAMOTO 45 ???

1 - *Smoothskin black / Open cell
2 - *Smoothskin black / Gold coating cell
3 - Smoothskin black /Superstretch nylon
4 - Open cell / Camouflage brown lining



HEIWA or NEOFLEX ???xxx??? :t

1 - *Smoothskin black / Open cell
2 - *Smoothskin green olive / Open cell (HD)
3 - *Smoothskin black / gold coating cell
4 - *Smoothskin black /Superelastic lining inside
5 - *Smoothskin green /Nylon elastic insde
6 - *Smoothskin black /Nylon elastic insde
7 - *Smoothskin black/ Thermic Plush lining inside
8 - Gold coating cell / Camouflage brown lining
9 - Copper coating smooth /Nylon elastic outside (several colours)
10 - Open cell /Camouflage brown lining outside
11 - Open cell /Nylon elastic outside (black or green olive)
12 - Open cell / Kanoko lining outside antitears (black)
13 - Double lined /Camouflage brown lining - nylon elastic green (double face)
14 - Double lined /Camouflage brown lining - thermic plush lining inside
15 - Double lined / nylon elastic - nylon elastic double face (available in severl colours)
16 - Double lined / nylon elastic (several colours) /Thermic plush lining inside
17 - Double lined /Superelastic lining outside - Superelastic lining inside


Quite a choice ehh!!! Thanks :t

 

[Fondueset]

If you want a warm suit you want an open cell interior. This requires lube to put on. I use about 1/5 of a half liter bottle of diluted hair conditioner.
For sturdiness you want nylon on the outside. My suits are heiwa with the new black coating inside - friends of mine have the less expensive titanium inside and are quite happy. Yamamoto neoprene is supposed to be very soft, but less sturdy.

I have the top suit on your list - and the Third.

If you go with any sort of fabric inner lining you will gain sturdiness, need no lube and considerably compromise warmth.

All of the grades of neoprene elios sells are good - you could easily go with one of their 'ecoline' suits and be very happy.

The coatings on open cell suits make the open cell slide on a little easier without compromising warmth - you still need lube - but less - it also helps avoid abrasion of the open cell. Smooth inside is just smoothskin neoprene - warmer than fabric - not as warm as open cell - easer to put on but probably still need a little lube.

In summary _ I recommend nylon out/ open cell with some kind of coating in (new black or titanium are both good) Thickness depends on your water temp.

I've elminated all the items on your list I think you should not consider. You can go with no coating on the open cell - just need more lube. Titanium coating isn't on your list but Elios has it. Tell them what you want and they will help. The more info you give them the better. If you are diving in England you need a reasonably warm suit.


1 - Black coating cell inside/ Superstretch nylon black outside

-

HEIWA or NEOFLEX ???xxx???


8 - Gold coating cell / Camouflage brown lining

10 - Open cell /Camouflage brown lining outside
11 - Open cell /Nylon elastic outside (black or green olive)
12 - Open cell / Kanoko lining outside antitears (black)

 

[vjanda]

great stuff, thanks bud !!!

 

[vjanda]

Those folks from Ellios just sent me an email.
Very nice and helpful reply.

Here it is for anyone interested:
Hello,
Thank you in advance for this contact and about your indications, we
can
suggest you several solutions:

FIRST: You want a tailor made suit, thickness 3mm, to use for
freediving
& scubadiving, complete of jacket closed with hood incorporated + long
john trousers. But for a better freediving suit, we suggest you an High
Waist panst (not long john) because you will have:
> - More breathing
> - More aderence the jacket on the chest
> - less water under the jacket
> - and if you have some needs...., must take off completely the jacket
> for me is more warm a vest in 2mm than long john part. (a larger part
> of freediver take this solution)

SECOND: your preference are for:
- Elasticity
- Thermic insulation
- Good resistance against abrasions (in this case we don't suggest you
the smoothskin outside because will become too much delicate)
- Color Camouflage outside

OPTIONS:

1) Suit 3mm Open cell inside / Camouflage Brown lining outside (see
photo Shaca) neoprene Heiwa Price Euro 241,00 (include chest pad and
knee pads) this is very good for spearfishing near the rocks, very very
warmth, aderent to the body, elastic and good also for deep divings,
but
for get into must use always talkum or water-soap.

2) Suit 3mm New Black coating cell inside / Camouflage Brown lining
outside (see photo Carlos) neoprene Heiwa Price Euro 281,00 (include
chest pad and knee pads) this is very good for spearfishing near the
rocks, very very warmth, aderent to the body, elastic and good also for
deep divings, but also very very slippery to get into.

3) Suit 3mm Open cell inside / Nylon Camouflage Grey-Green outside (see
photo mim. Verde) neoprene Ecoline Price Euro 201,00 (include chest pad
and knee pads) It's a classic spearfishing suit in shallow waters, very
very warmth, aderent to the body, comfortable and durable with lining
outside, but for get into must use always talkum or water-soap.

4) Suit 3mm Open cell inside / Nylon Camouflage Blue-Green outside (see
photo Papua) neoprene Nam Liong Price Euro 201,00 (include chest pad
and
knee pads) It's a new color for spearfishing in the open water, very
very warmth, aderent to the body, comfortable and durable with lining
outside, but for get into must use always talkum or water-soap.

5) Suit 3mm Titanium coating cell inside / Nylon Camouflage Blue-Green
outside (see photo Papua) neoprene Nam Liong Price Euro 241,00 (include
chest pad and knee pads) It's a new color for spearfishing in the open
water, very very warmth, aderent to the body, comfortable and durable
with lining outside, but also very slippery to get into.

6) Suit 3mm Open cell inside / Nylon Camouflage Black&Red outside (see
photo Red) neoprene Yamamoto 45 Price Euro 281,00 (include chest pad
and
knee pads) It's an high-quality products, very good for spearfishing in
the bottom, aderent to the body, comfortable and very very soft
neoprene, but for get into must use always talkum or water-soap.

7) Suit 3mm Open cell inside / Nylon Camouflage Black&Grey outside (see
photo Grey) neoprene Yamamoto 45 Price Euro 281,00 (include chest pad
and knee pads) It's an high-quality products, very good for
spearfishing
near the rocks, aderent to the body, comfortable and very very soft
rubber, but for get into must use always talkum or water-soap.

8) Suit 3mm Nylon elastic Green inside / Camouflage Brown lining
outside
(see photo Pesca 2) neoprene Ecoline Price Euro 211,00 (include chest
pad and knee pads) this is a very alternative for spearfishing near the
rocks, very very comfortable, easy to wear like a t-shirt, very durable
and reversible. (can wear on both side)

9) Suit 3mm Nylon Green Olive inside / Nylon Camouflage Blue-Green
outside (see photo Papua) neoprene Nam Liong Price Euro 201,00 (include
chest pad and knee pads) It's a new color for spearfishing in the open
water, very very comfortable, easy to wear like a t-shirt, comfortable
and reversible. (can wear on both side). (it's good for diving max
20mts)

These are some of the better solutions for your needs, but if you want
other informations or details, don't hesitate to contact us. In case of
order:
- Time of working about 25 days from the order
Payment available directly by Credit Card or by bank tranfer money
Freight costs to UK amount about to Euro 27,00

Wait your response...
Best regards

 

[Fondueset]

Elios ROCKS!!

I use a 6 mil open cell/smooth out top and 6 mil open cell nylon out bottoms and I'm diving in 36F water with 15F air temps and much much colder windchills. I've heard the Nam liong neoprene is quite similar to Heiwa - just a little less expensive. I don't know your water temps - but you may want to consider a 5 mil. Their suits are really comfortable. They are right about high-waist pants vs long-johns.

Also- be prepared to be interrogated on your 'measures' - those guys are perfectionists. They usually send them back with comments by all the ones they think are wrong like "IMPOSSIBLE!!"

 

[vjanda]

Good point. I am still undecided about 3mm vs 5mm.
I will dive in temperature range of 19-26c.
I thought I'd go for the 3mm to minimise the amount of weight I need to strap around me. I also spent most of last summer diving in the same temp with only gloves socks and a t-shirt and was not that cold.

 

[Fondueset]

Personally I wouldn't use a wetsuit at 26c - at 19 I use a 3 or 5 depending on how long I'll be in. If you average is toward the middle of that range that a 3 is good.

 

[vjanda]

3 it is then...

Think I'll go for #10 - Open cell /Camouflage brown lining outside
Sounds like a take-away
Damage = 240euros

Thanks for all your advice m8

 

[Scorp]

Hi Vjanda,
just a short note:
1) I think u made a good choice.
2) U will not really have to use any lube if you dont want. since u went for a 3mm suit and will dive in warm water, just use the water as lube. with my 3mm suit I never use any shampoo or else, I just go in the water to put the suit on, and thats faster and more comfortable then any other method. Lay on the surface, pants first, jacket second, its done in a minute. dont need any titanium coating or similar, pure open cell sticks better to the skin, and the coating goes off with time anyway.

cheers,
ivo

 

[Fondueset]

I damaged my 5 mil doing that - but I wasn't used to open cell - maybe 3 mil is stretchier.

 

[deep thinker]

I have a 5mm open cell suit and after 45min in 17-19 deg water I feel like Im goona pass out from the heat, am lookin into a 3mm myself for next summer as it just gets too hot in a 5mm. So good choice I say...

 

[Scorp]

I damaged my 5 mil doing that - but I wasn't used to open cell - maybe 3 mil is stretchier.

Hi Fondueset,
i dont think that has much to do with the thikness. I put my 5 mil on in the water too, whenever its possible. Would do it also with my 7mm, just the water is too cold noramally when i use that one, so i go for the shampoo.
I broke my suits many times when using lubricant to wear them because i usually try to use as little as possible of it, first because its not very good for the skin and second because the neopren slips on the skin as long as the lube is not washed out. so, little lube is quite a "danger" too.
Even for the delicate 3mm smoothskin/open cell i prefer a lot putting it on in the water. But of course, everyone has his own methods.

Cheers,
Ivo

 

[vjanda]

That gives me an idea.
My house is close to the beach so I get I could put the suit on in the shower so avoiding the lube...?

 

[fcallagy]

where do you normally dive vjanda some one from here may also dive there and recommend what they use

 

[vjanda]

Hi,
I dive in Croatia from May to Sep...

 

[covert]

just my 2 cents on this one,

1.

 

[covert]

just my 2 cents on this one,

1. Get a 3mm suit you will be way too uncomfortable with a 5mm suit in 19-26c, trust me.
2. I dont know what the problem with the whole lubing issue is unless you are allergic to either shampoo, conditioner, talkum, or aquaes cream. It really doesnt bother you when you dive. And it makes it allot easier to get into the suit, Using just water you may damage the suit. Just take a 2l cooldrink bottle, mix a bit of conditioner in it. 500ml into the top shake it round, 500ml into the pants shake it round, and whoop into the suit you go. No mess no fuss.

anyhoo happy hunting and safe diving.

 

[Scorp]

My house is close to the beach so I get I could put the suit on in the shower so avoiding the lube...?

with putting it on in the water I rather mean the sea (or lake), not the shower. Its possible in the shower too, and I do that also quite often, but u have to be more careful there (especially with the jacket), since u dont get as much water inside the suit as when being on the water surface to put it on.
Anyway,u will find your preferred method soon. I personally try to avoid the lubricants for the mentioned reasons and find it more comfortable in the water.

Cheers,
Ivo

 

[covert]

I agree with scorp you will find your own way of doing things. (Though lubing has never bothered me one little bit )

Also I use conditioner instead of shampoo since it is alot easier on the skin, but if the whole lubing up bugs you that much, there are many companies like bodyglide that make wetsuit lubricants or you could even use silicone spray. Just dont use anything that is petrolium based. Although ive never tried any other method than just using 2l of soapy water and I have never been uncomfortable from lubricants. But maybe im just lucky. Anyone else experiance discomfort using lub in your suits?

 

[Fondueset]

No problems here. I use organic hair conditioner. First I get the suit completely wet in the shower - then put a little lube in. With my nylon out suit I grip the outside of the suit and rub it around to distribute the lube. With my smooth out suit I use my hands - being careful to get lube in the stress areas - sides under the armpits, neck. It takes all of three minutes to get the suit prepped and on. I'm not using my 5 or 6 mil suits unless the water is quite cold - usually below 13C. My 3 mil is plush lined. I use it when the water is above about 18c - though I have used it down to 11c - which is not all that much fun It is extremely sturdy and goes on like a T-shirt.