the 02 static table - question on technique

[kirez]

Right now I'm taking a deep breath in, then holding it. It's hard to do and feels so much more uncomfortable than what I do in the water. The air also pushes against my vocal cords, uncomfortably.


I've noticed what someone else mentioned: after holding, I don't feel a need to breathe, and if I don't force myself to breathe I'll just sit there not breathing. It's ironic and strange.

What is the right breathing technique for these static, out of pool O2 tables? When should I start releasing - exhaling? How much? If I'm performing the standard O2 table easily (30:45, building up to 2, 2:30 holds), how should I increase it? What's the next step?

Thanks for any comments, I appreciate it. I'm a newbie here so let me know if I make any etiquette mistakes please.

 

[sanso]

Hey kirez,

I also am much more comfortable holding my breath in the water, this seems to be normal (at least for water people) .
When the air pushing against the epiglottis (the muscle that closes the windpipe) gets becomes uncomfortable, I sometimes switch to holding the air in by closing my mouth and soft palate. Apart from being easier on the epiglottis, that also provides a possibility for distraction by in- and de-flating ones cheeks

I do, though, have the urge to breathe after a long hold.

From what I gathered, the next step with tables would be to do longer holds. You can probably skip the (now) really short ones at the start and do some longer ones at the end.

How often do You do Your tables? I'm currently doing tables twice or three times a week but right now seem to be stuck with a PB of 2'15".

greetings,

 

[TheDude]

If you want to improve, you have to push yourself in the training. Especially when training dry where it is quite safe. Every time you finish a table easily, you should make it harder the next time - increase holds, decrease rest time.

For O2 tables you can add 5 - 10 s to the max hold time of the table every time you practice, until you reach the point where you will not be able to finish the new table. Then just stick with the old one for a while. You can also hold the last round as long as you can, not only the time indicated by the table. O2 tables are a good way of improving you PB at the beginning. This way I got to 4:30 in a matter of weeks.

For CO2 tables you can add another round with the minimal rest time (15s for example) if you feel the table was easy. Or you can do the table with your lungs not completely full, just after a relaxed inhale.

 

[Waterysmile]

As the guys above have said, change the variables. With the standard O2 table (30:45, building up to 2, 2:30 holds) I first increased all the holds by 15 seconds. I have now decreased the breathing times from 2:00 to 1:30 as the table was getting very long and end with 2, 3:00 holds. Today with the CO2 table I started with a 2:00 breath up and ended with 2 30 seconds breath ups (with 2 minute holds all the way through).

 

[kirez]

Hey kirez,

I also am much more comfortable holding my breath in the water, this seems to be normal (at least for water people) .
When the air pushing against the epiglottis (the muscle that closes the windpipe) gets becomes uncomfortable, I sometimes switch to holding the air in by closing my mouth and soft palate. Apart from being easier on the epiglottis, that also provides a possibility for distraction by in- and de-flating ones cheeks

I do, though, have the urge to breathe after a long hold.

From what I gathered, the next step with tables would be to do longer holds. You can probably skip the (now) really short ones at the start and do some longer ones at the end.

How often do You do Your tables? I'm currently doing tables twice or three times a week but right now seem to be stuck with a PB of 2'15".

greetings,

I should clarify: after a breath hold, of course I need to breathe in and I do. But after that initial breath... I seem to just want to sit there, not breathing. This caused a problem for me last night, when I got to my first 2:30 hold. In the 2:00 rest before the 2:30 hold, I went ahead and just sat there, listless, doing nothing, and not breathing. When I did my 2:30 hold, it was the most difficult breath hold I've ver done in my life... I put up a brutal fight to get to 2:30 and only made it by virtue of pinching my nose shut and biting down on a stuffed animal. After that, I forced myself to breathe regularly during the next 2:00 rest, and my second 2:30 was regular and much much easier for me.

 

[kirez]

If you want to improve, you have to push yourself in the training. Especially when training dry where it is quite safe. Every time you finish a table easily, you should make it harder the next time - increase holds, decrease rest time.

For O2 tables you can add 5 - 10 s to the max hold time of the table every time you practice, until you reach the point where you will not be able to finish the new table. Then just stick with the old one for a while. You can also hold the last round as long as you can, not only the time indicated by the table. O2 tables are a good way of improving you PB at the beginning. This way I got to 4:30 in a matter of weeks.

For CO2 tables you can add another round with the minimal rest time (15s for example) if you feel the table was easy. Or you can do the table with your lungs not completely full, just after a relaxed inhale.

Dude --- thanks for the words, I like them. 4:30 seems extremely impressive to me. I've never tried to measure a personal best, it doesn't sound like fun to me, but I see the writing on the wall and know that I'll be doing it shortly. My guess is I can do 3:00 on land and 3:20 in the water (the people I dive with told me I was under for 3:20, but I didn't drill them to see how carefully they measured it, and I certainly wasn't trying for a static personal best, I was down at the bottom, and simply came up the ladder slowly --- one step every 10 seconds or so.)

 

[Waterysmile]

I should clarify: after a breath hold, of course I need to breathe in and I do. But after that initial breath... I seem to just want to sit there, not breathing. This caused a problem for me last night, when I got to my first 2:30 hold. In the 2:00 rest before the 2:30 hold, I went ahead and just sat there, listless, doing nothing, and not breathing. When I did my 2:30 hold, it was the most difficult breath hold I've ver done in my life... I put up a brutal fight to get to 2:30 and only made it by virtue of pinching my nose shut and biting down on a stuffed animal. After that, I forced myself to breathe regularly during the next 2:00 rest, and my second 2:30 was regular and much much easier for me.

Others, like Naiad, have experienced the same; she has said that once she went for 2 minutes before feeling like breathing.

BTW you made both my partner and me laugh outloud at your revolutionary technique to get through a hold - must remember to have a stuffed animal nearby for my next table. Does it matter what kind of animal?

 

[kirez]

As the guys above have said, change the variables. With the standard O2 table (30:45, building up to 2, 2:30 holds) I first increased all the holds by 15 seconds. I have now decreased the breathing times from 2:00 to 1:30 as the table was getting very long and end with 2, 3:00 holds. Today with the CO2 table I started with a 2:00 breath up and ended with 2 30 seconds breath ups (with 2 minute holds all the way through).

Andrew, makes perfect sense. I'll try it. I could definitely decrease the rests, they feel longish to me.

Using this BBS system I'm like a bull in a china shop, excuse the clutter.

Sanso, to be perfectly honest, this was the second time I went through the O2 table.

I have an embarassing story about the first time I tried the O2 table, but it can wait. It's not so trivial or boring as you would expect.

 

[naiad]

I've noticed what someone else mentioned: after holding, I don't feel a need to breathe, and if I don't force myself to breathe I'll just sit there not breathing. It's ironic and strange.

The same happens to me - I mentioned it here...
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=68702"]Stuck in exhale mode problem[/ame]

Never tried biting on a stuffed animal before... rofl

Lucia

 

[laminar]

Kirez,

If you feel discomfort and tension when you hold your breath, try inhaling a little less air when you do dry breath holds. I would wager that the 02 you waste holding in your breath with full lungs (without the compression of water surrounding your lungs) and thinking about it (your brain consumes a lot of 02) offsets any extra 02 in your lungs anyway.

While tables may help, the real secret is to actively practice relaxing and doing absolutely nothing with your body in the minutes leading up to any breath hold. You should be limp and still for at least 5 minutes.

Pete

 

[kirez]

Thanks Pete.

I'm actually pretty good at meditation. I've never had a disciplined practice -- just like my freediving -- but I can enter the silent place easily and voluntary slow my heart to a resting rate of 44-48.

But it does bring up something I've often thought about. I'm a mesomorph. In spite of being a distance runner / endurance athlete, I'm 195 lbs / 90 kg at 177 cm / 5'10" -- very muscular.

I've always guessed that I could never be a competitive freediver just because of my physiology. High metabolism, musculature, poor hydrodynamics (I'm a lousy competitive swimmer).

You agree, yes? If you saw me in the water, you'd think: "bodybuilder!" and you'll never expect someone with this physiognomy to be really efficient, right?

 

[laminar]

While most successful freedivers do seem to be tall and slim, I wouldn't give up yet!

Pippin is a very burly man and didn't have any trouble spearing fish deep or setting world records in different disciplines. I think you may want to tweak your training based on your strengths and weaknesses.

What are your goals for getting better at breath holding?

Advantages
1: In theory, being in good shape, you'll have a greater blood volume than most people (in my understanding). If you limit the blood flow to your brain and vitals, you'll be ahead.

2: Depending on what you do to stay fit and acquire those muscles, there's a good chance those muscles are relatively efficient with their use of 02 and have relatively high stored energy. I'm assuming you've been weight training and have anaerobic power in the major muscle groups. That's great for the ascent phase of a dive if you experience sufficient vasoconstriction.

3: If your resting HR is in the upper 40s I would also assume that your cardiovascular system is efficient and has a higher stroke volume than the average. The means a more efficient delivery of blood to your vitals while vasocontricted and faster recoveries at the surface.

I think your real goal is to get as strong a dive/apnea response as possible so that you are not sending O2 to all your muscles, rather than to the brain and vital organs. In your case, you would want a strong vasoconstriction to reduce blood flow to your legs and arms and rely on stored energy to move them while swimming. So you should organize your training around developing a strong apnea/dive response.

One way to help this along is to dive without a wetsuit. Although if you are a spearo or in cold water, that's probably not practical.

I think you apnea exercises will need to be more intense than 02 / CO2 tables. Apnea biking on a stationary bike, max statics, anaerobic 85-90% max Heart Rate cycling or rowing machine or running are some ideas...

But then again, it all depends on what your goals are.

Pete

 

[deepestbear]

Personally I get through the struggle phase by biting down on a stuffed human