The DeeperBlue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Gun Options 7 - Handle Style Choice

[ILDiver]

Just wanted to start a thread to keep The Gits' post clean.

What I would like to see would be a grip angle like a 1911 handgun. It would have to be an Ambi grip, since we don't know who gets the gun once built. I actually like the grip on my Springfield XD, it's like a 1911, but a double stack magazine thickness. Since I have bigger hands, that is what I would prefer.

I think a pistol grip like a 1911 is a pretty standard grip design and comfortable for a lot of people. Having an finger rest on each side of the gun would be nice, to rest your trigger finger on.

Design wise, I think a center lam of teak, about 10mm, then 5mm lams alternating the purpleheart and teak. Once the shaping is done, it would have a nice layered effect imo.

These are just my starting thoughts, I am looking forward to hearing others ideas!

 

[ILDiver]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - pre poll handle discussion

After looking for the Totem trigger online and finding their site. I like their handle, but would do it with the laminations as stated above.

 

[Pastor]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - pre poll handle discussion

Some food for thought from the target pistol world

more pics here

pistol grips

Another option is heat moldable plastic such as [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymorphs"]Polymorph[/ame]

 

[ILDiver]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - pre poll handle discussion

I like the stippling on images 1 & 3. That grip would work if was done Ambi. I was thinking the angle was a bit steep. But thinking about it, a 1911 grip angle may not be enough, due to the prone firing position. That PolyMorph stuff is an interesting idea too. I saw that on TV a few weeks ago.

Hmm, my Florida trip is in two weeks. I sure hope this gun is done in time for my trip so I can show it off to people down there. (I have to pretend it's mine now, until reality hits and it goes to someone less deserving like Pastor or Podge!) *Oh Snap! No he di ent!* Yep, I went there!

 

[Pastor]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - pre poll handle discussion

How could you use Polymorph? How about a skeletal Aluminium frame?

I like the idea of an adjustable support under MY hand too. How about an enclosed handle to lock to your hand, that should help to lessen the need for a strong grip while swinging it

 

[podge]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - pre poll handle discussion

How could you use Polymorph? How about a skeletal Aluminium frame?

I like the idea of an adjustable support under MY hand too. How about an enclosed handle to lock to your hand, that should help to lessen the need for a strong grip while swinging it

Pastor I’ve got a strong grip and I’m going blind as a result.roflroflrofl

Hogue make some nice grips and I’ve had a few on different bits of kit myself well worth a look from a design point of view.

 

[Pastor]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - pre poll handle discussion

I knew that was coming rofl

Their nice looking bits of kit Podge!

The handles on Daryl Wong's guns are I believe an exact replica of a Colt 45 auto (or some such weapon, correct me if I'm wrong Daryl please). They are fantastically comfortable with bare hands or gardening type gloves but with 3mm kevlar lined gloves it could do with a bit of re modelling to be ideal

 

[foxfish]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

It seems to me that under the circumstances - "we dont know if the new owner will be left hand, right hand or be wearing a glove or not wearing a clove" that this will limit the options? I think maybe a structural frame with interchangeable grips would be cool?
If not, a plain but shaped ampedextrious handle?

 

[ILDiver]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

I like the frame idea Foxy... The froma could then be the trigger guard.

A few questions first though. How would that work? I mean, would the gun come with a few styles of grips that are made for it? Or is there a company out there that sells such a kit? Are there grips that are universal for such a thing?

I was ponder this idea myself but didn't know how it would work. (back to my favorite hand gun) The new Sprinfield XD has a changable back strap and comes with 3 sizes to allow for different sized hands. That OMER Cayman has the standard grop and a left and right ergo grip. I like the ergo grip, but it is a tad smaller than I would prefer, but still very comfortable.

So I guess on that thought, I'd say 3 sets of grips that change out for different thicknesses to alow for gloves or what ever. But still an Ambi designed grip, unless six are made, 3 right, three left. Since I'd like to let my dive buddies share the experience of my new gun though, I'm still leaning to an ambi style.

 

[Dobs]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

I know the gun could be won by anyone (with different preferences), but the GITS can still stick to some basic characteristics I believe important in the handle design.
First of all the angle.
The handles of the target pistols have much bigger angle than those of the semi-automatic ones shown above. The bigger the angle is, the closer the axis of the hand is to the axis of the gun, therefore the recoil will be absorbed better by the body and there will be less upwards movement of the muzzle. At least in theory...
Another important thing is the thumb rest. It is essential for the up-down movement of the gun.

 

[Pastor]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

I agree Dobs, target pistols have evolved around a precision shot, recoil absorption is key to that.

From the point of the gun fitting a right or left handed dude with or without a glove what are we looking at? Moldable sides or detachable fittings?

 

[foxfish]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

Perhaps we can design a universal handle but offer a custom fit grips for the winner?

 

[Pastor]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

Perhaps the winner could send the gits a polymorph grip mold and have it custom made? Or am I being ridiculous again? The trouble with customised grips is that the need to fit well to be really effective

Just out of curiosity, does polymorph come in any other colour than white?

 

[ILDiver]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

A metal center that incorporates the trigger guard would look nice, with grips that can be screwed onto the handle.

A skeletal metal handle would look nice too. Just not polished imo.

http://www.neptonicsystems.com/handles.htm

 

[Dobs]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

The best thing IMHO will be to know the winner of the gun before designing the handle. In this way he/she will be able to express his/hers preferences.
Detachable handles is not the best idea. We loose something of the advantage of a monocoque gun if we go that way...

 

[gserghiou]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

Hi All,

been a member here for some time but not active alot...

seen this thread and i ve been occasionally visiting it...

I think that with this Excellent idea of constructing a gun, with the input of the forum members a personalized handle (for the hand of the winner) would be the way to go. Its a shame for such a beautiful work , not to be 100% Perfect..a custom made personal to the winner handle will achieve 100% in my opinion.

many good ideas have been suggested already....

Im sure the builder of the gun will accomodate for a 100% custom fit to the winners hand (left or right) !!!!

Excellent Innovative thread !!!!

GREAT JOB !!!

George

 

[Pastor]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

I agree Dobs, target pistols have evolved around a precision shot, recoil absorption is key to that.

I had a PM from Podge setting me straight on that statement. My fault, it is very badly worded, I didn't mean to imply that the shape of the handle was key to absorbing recoil on any type of gun but more the position it puts your hand in relationship to it. Of course the shape has more to do with comfort and putting the gun in exactly the same place in your hand every time it's picked up so precision is maintained. However a speargun handle has to help keep the gun solidly locked to the divers hand to aid swinging it against water resistance. So deep relief grips (Podge!!!! second word is off rofl) give the hand something to push against.

 

[ILDiver]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

While this is a custom gun, I don't think it's meant to be specifically customized. It's meant to be a group effort to put all the ideas out and agree on a best fit. At least that is what I pick up from foxfish on other threads.

So imo some sort of Ambi Ergo grip like they make for AR15's would be good. Looking at the work so far I think it is going to be an excellent piece of work. A contoured handle with just the right thickness, not to big for the smaller hands but very usable for bigger hands.

To go along with the poll and wood choice, I agree with Pastor on contrast to the handle. BUT, if it's going to be a wood handle, there is already Teak and Purpleheart, I don't know if another color of wood would be too much. A more blond wood I think would make a nice handle on a Teak gun, but again, with the purple heart... I think the same wood should be used.

(That was hard to right, I was trying to avoid sounding like the ole how much wood could a woodchuck chuck)

 

[Dobs]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

Chris, I tend to disagree with you on the handle matter
If we want to have the "perfect" gun, or at least as close to perfect as possible, we shouldn't just put any handle that fits eveyone's hand...
The handle is probably one of the most important pieces in a gun and the precision depends very much on it. Bad angle, bad position, insufficient support are a sure recipe for bad recoil that will seriously impact the precision of the gun. And after all the effort to make enclosed track and make sure the gun will shoot as straight as possible, putting the wrong handle will mess it all up...

That's my 2 cents.

 

[ILDiver]

Re: The Deeperblue.net Gun Building Extravaganza - Handle Style Discussion

I don't disagree that a custom handle that fits the winner is the best way. I'm with you on that. But the gun has to fit a general population. I know the handle is important, but so is length, so maybe the winner should have picked the length. Same for # of bands and the track style. (I'm not being a jerk, this is the argument that was presented before)

One thing on recoil. The grip position vertically, has great effect. The higher you can get the grip, more inline with the bands, the better it would be. That way you get the recoil to go more straight back than muzzle going up. I think that is why some spearo's push on the butt of their gun and keep a lighter grip on the handle. I'm guessing that with the width of this gun, at 90cm, recoil won't be too bad.