the temptation to speed-up...

[Apneaddict]

in a DYN, I have a strong urge to speed up nearing the end of dynamic... about 70% of the way to my max, I speed-up and burn the o2 stored in my leg muscles and end up with some lactic acid burning when I surface.

Would I be better off staying slow and trying to relax... or can speeding up a bit actually be OK for distance?

 

[Simos]

It's tempting to speed up and might feel like it's giving you a few extra metres but I see it more as a bad habit. Once you get used to doing it, you'll be doing it during practice etc. You're better off trying to relax when you realise you are speeding up and if you can't relax, better to end the dive.

I always get the urge to speed up when it gets hard - half the time I can just relax and keep going, sometimes I can't and end the dive and sometimes I just swim fast to the end of the pool; when this happens I am unhappy about the way I dove, despite of the distance...

There is obviously a difference between having a consistent fast swimming style and losing relaxation and as a result swimming fast just to make a few more meters...

Disclaimer: I am bad at DYN so would be interesting to see what others think about this...
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[efattah]

Speeding up at the end is generally accepted to increase your overall distance. Near the end, the blood shift is very strong, and you can take advantage of that by swimming faster. Once the blood shift kicks in strongly, you have a certain time limit before the blackout. The faster you swim, the more distance you cover in that fixed amount of time.

A greater debate is to determine exactly when you should start speeding up.

 

[Simos]

Is the idea that since a lot of the blood has moved away from leg muscles etc, swimming faster won't burn much more oxygen but will just result in the muscles working unaerobically?

In my case I think I am yet to reach the point where I have enough co2 tolerance to be anywhere close a BO, so on that basis I am guessing I am better off not speeding up for now?
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[Kars]

I think it depends also on your body type.

I happen to be tall and slender, and have a high gas exchange ability. Consequently when swimming slow my muscles stay in aerobic mode for a long time. This results in me having to end to dive because of low O2 for the brain, while my muscles have hardly any lactic acid build up. To counter this, I came up with the following approach for my maximum dynamic dives. First 50m I swim compact, slow and as relaxed as possible. When the contraction start I 'step on the gas', speed up to 75% - 80% speed, trying to relax the chest, head, while having my legs and abdominal muscles work in anaerobic mode. This way I think I avoid my muscles using the O2 in my blood, leaving that for my head, while using the anaerobic capacity.

I've tested this approach in both apnea walks as well as for dynamic with monofin, yielding in two nice pb's. (+25% / + 12% resp.)

I agree with Simon on the part that one should try to remain as relaxed as possible, the only distinction I would like to add is that this applies in my view mostly for the mind and body parts not used for swimming. Swimming a bit faster can be nice liberating transition to the second part of the dive. Make sure it stays a compact and efficient swim stroke though. I use the turns as places to relax and rest.

I'm interested to hear your experiences with my dual speed approach.

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[Simos]

That's interesting Kars - I might try it out and see how it feels. As mentioned, I'm not opposed to swimming faster at all as long as it's with decent form and done consciously. What I don't like and think it's a bad habit is the 'panicked' fast swimming right at the end of the dive - it mostly happens when someone is say 5m-10m from completing a length and can see the wall and instead of ending the dive they just sprint for the wall. I've caught myself doing it in the past...
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[sgnips]

Hi all

first let me send in the AA approach to this question
as you all know we are very focused on relaxation, so we always recommend NOT to speed up as it would make you lose relaxations and generate muscle contraction and worse feelings on the dive
i often suggest to slow down on purpose or even stop for a while when you feel the urge for speed, just to build confidence with the situation

@Eric
i heard Dave Mullins suggesting this kind of thing and tried it myself with nice results, what's your thought on the best moment to speed up, apart from the fact that we're all different?

@Kars
at the end of the last year i discovered i could make the first 75m "soft" and then another 25m sprint, making my 100 really easy
i've been trying this dual speed approach for 3-4 months and i guess it might be working having increased my PB a lot (now i'm at 150 and there is room to turn and keep it going)
for this kind of approach i left the kick and glide i was doing before and these days i'm even wondering if i would ever come back to it one day
i begin my dive with a 50-60% speed for the first 75m, then increase to 80-85% for another 25m or a bit more, then slow down a bit to 70% or so, until the end of the dive
this way i can relax in the first part and establish my discussion with contractions (usually they come up at 60), then speed up to let them talk to themselves, and then again concentrate on what they have to say but at the same time mantain the focus on the finning technique, which helps me a lot in entering the flow

 

[Simos]

Interesting Gabriele - I usually find hard dealing with contractions in DYN (i usually swim quite slowly) but I have noticed that if I speed up it does make it easier. However I am a bit worried doing that as when I am going faster I am a lot less aware of my body. Is that the reason you slow down for the last part of your dive (to be more aware) or is it because it's too tiring to keep the speed up?
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[Apneaddict]

In static, my contractions are quite light and I can endure over 100 over 2:00...

But in dynamic, they hit much stronger and I feel that I can only hold them for :30 sec... so I speed up to try to cover as much distance as possible.

If I didn't speed up, I believe that I would stop short due to lack of o2 and I am sure that my legs would not be burning from lactic acid, unless I sped up.

I see the leg muscles as an extra store / reserve tank that should be tapped into.

Note that I probably have more muscular strength than static breath holding capability at this time.

 

[Simos]

I am in a similar situation Apneaddict - I have light contractions in static and can take a few but in DYN, I struggle with them. In terms of body-type, I'm more of a distance-runner type than a sprinter (if that makes sense) and I seem to feel the effects of lactic in my legs a lot less than others... (which is probably not a good thing..)

 

[Apneaddict]

I'm built more like a sprinter... but I run out of o2 before i can build up enough lactic acid to be an issue, unless I kick it into overdrive near the end or use a fast pace throughout.

I use a kick-glide approach until I start to contract... Then I shorten the glide to approx 1/3 of the usual distance... Then it's an all-out constant kicking until I need to surface for the last 20m or so

 

[Simos]

Do you dive with a mask out of interest? One of the problems I had in the past when trying to go faster once contractions kicked in was that I was losing air through my nose if i was relaxed or had to tense to try and keep the air in..
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[Apneaddict]

I experienced this exact thing last competition, so now I am going to use my newly-acquired Trygons noseclip and aquasphere Seal goggles.

We will see how this combo works out tomorrow!

 

[chrismar]

My swim timings on my longest comp dive. Done in a 25m pool.

Length Time
1 25
2 26
3 24
4 22
5 21
6 20
7 19
8 13

Total swim time was 2:50. The idea was to relax as much as possible, but gradually swim a bit faster after the 50m mark. I had decided that if I was clear-headed at 175 I would make a break for 200, so I did. It worked, but in reality it was faster than I should have gone. Recent swims have been more gradual and less stressful. We shall see how it works in a bit over a month.

 

[sgnips]

nice progression Chrismar and nice distance too
did it leave you head clear at the end, compared to a maybe shorter but no "speeded up" dive?

I am a bit worried doing that as when I am going faster I am a lot less aware of my body. Is that the reason you slow down for the last part of your dive (to be more aware) or is it because it's too tiring to keep the speed up?

actually, for me it's the opposite
well, not the exact opposite but i like very much to relax looking for rigid points in my body and i can do it even when moving
the last part of my dive is a bit slower than the second because by now my legs can't stand that speed til the end
these days i'm training hard to strenghten my legs, let's see what happens at the next comp (june 10th)

 

[chrismar]

Thanks. The speeding up to that extent was, I think, detrimental. I wasn't particularly clear in the head at the end; I've been clearer on similar dives. I don't believe we ever dip completely into anaerobic, and certainly not in all muscle groups, so I think there's always a trade-off with speed. I do think that speeding up a bit after you feel your dive reflex kick in is a good compromise, but I don't think the flat sprint (for me at least) is a good idea.

Different dive speeds suit different divers, but I don't think the optimum range is as wide as the range we see even at the top level. It would be interesting to hear from some of the quicker swimmers out there if they have tried slower swims and their experiences

 

[aris ioannidis]

I do accelerate in DNF in the 2nd part of the dive with success. In DYN however, i have not tried it b/c my legs get lactic in the last part... maybe i ll try it anyway and see what happens

 

[aris ioannidis]

total disaster in DYN... legs burning in last part of the dive... unable to speed up. So, only bet is to go slow and relaxed with an armstroke every now and then

Guess lactic tolerance training is appropriate here - any suggestions for a nice set?

 

[Apneaddict]

I started with kick-kick glide and near the end it "morphed" into kick-kick-kick glide.

With bifins I was moving at 1.4m/sec

I only started to feel a bit of burn in the last 15m or so.

I don't think slow is my style.

Different strokes for different folks... Literally!

 

[chrismar]

1.4 m/s with bifins? Are you an underwater hockey player by any chance?

Aris:
I try to do a long swim, then maybe some sprints or near-sprints. I think gym work (squats, deadlifts, squat-jumps) help here too. Exhale sprints at 80-90% of max speed or repeats of ~50% of your max distance but done at fast speed will help. You don't have to turn it into a CO2 table though (unless you want to). Try to finish your sessions like that and I think it will help. I mostly tend towards the gym work and exhales.