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Think before spearing a grouper...

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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greendiver

Sea fanatic
May 2, 2005
482
59
0
Hi guys,
As some of you know I really enjoy spearfishing and fish a lot, however I have changed my mind regarding the grouper.
I am a full time scuba Instructor since a while now and have made quiet some "grouper friends" and lost some due to my spearfishing colleagues.
These fish are used to scuba divers, and see no difference.
At the moment I am working on the canary islands, and there is one grouper that you can actually call by his name underwater and you will see him coming out of the blue somewhere, you can pet him, stroke him or even kiss him.
I almost got into a fist fight:martial, cause some idiot wanted to go and spear him, what a loser!!!!..I mean....how simple does it have to get, you can call him....even by his name!!
Last year I lost another friend, a 18kg grouper, and I am sure now, cause I saw him in the restaurant next door to the dive center.:head, a 16 year old kid and his brother, a kid that even didnt own his own gun and suit!!

Have alook at BOBO in the attachment!

I have lost a lot of respect for some of the famous spanish spearhfishers in Ibiza, they go around scuba centers and ask.....pfffff....Losers!!!
 

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Reactions: Jon and naiad
i understand where youre coming from, but i dont see this as the type of argument that will have a unanymous vote...
we had a similar situation with a wrasse, (which many people fish all over the world), but we had one called george, like your bobo...and one day he was caught spearfishing..people said "death to the spearo"...but in retrospect, he was a foreigner, didnt know about george and that he was a resident wrasse/napoleon fish...so in his perspective he didnt relaize it was such a bad thing to do...
on another note, what about groupers in other parts of the world , that dont come and greet you...that sprint away as soon as they see a diver... you see what i mean, you cant make these generalizations...
i find the right solution for each of these species (not just grouper) is that the local regulations be clear with regards to which fish can be caught, at what time of year, minimum length, maximum quantity etc... once a spearo is abiding by all these regulations, it is up to him if he wants to shoot something easy or not, we shouldnt judge...but ok its generally more "sporty"if there is some challenge in it....
ive seen videos of spanish spearos, make reptitive freedives to 35+ meters to catch big grouper...you cant call that spearo a loser...im sorry...
 
it sounds sad to lose your fish friend mate...nowadays we r losing people and no body gives a shit...
spearos should be selective in there catch. never use air tanks and it should always be fair.
 
Reactions: Jon
The Killer's me said:
it sounds sad to lose your fish friend mate...nowadays we r losing people and no body gives a shit...
spearos should be selective in there catch. never use air tanks and it should always be fair.
Click to expand...

Dude I agree with you I see these videos on youtube.com and how idiots are down there scuba with a huge riffe or seahornet speargun trying to catch some fish. Man in my opinion that is just wrong. They often kill more than a regular person might and there's just no honor in that. Every time I see one of those videos i get really angry.
 
Reactions: Jon
I'll think about it as long as it takes to line up and pull the trigger.

Have you ever considered that you bear the responsibility for altering the natural behavior of this fish so that it thinks scuba divers are a source of food?

Don't get me wrong. I don't to go shoot some tame fish that you depend on for a living, but normal grouper who haven't been habituated to scuba students are plenty spooky, and are no more special than any other species of fish. As long as I am observing legal take limits and otherwise acting within the law, I don't see why grouper deserve to be treated differently from other fish.

And as far as sport goes- last summer I attended a spearfishing Expo in Florida, and a Greek diver showed video of freediving to 140 feet, shooting grouper back in holes, and then pulling them out before starting for the surface. It didn't look easy to me.
 
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Reactions: spaghetti and Old Man Dave
Hi Mike, haven't seen you around the forums much lately. SCUBA instructer now. Your life just gets more interesting all the time and this is an interesting thread you've started.

Bill have to say I'm glad you put in that reply as at least you were the first to raise his head over the parapit and therefore the first who is going to get it shot off. However I support your views in general.

Personally I dislike the idea of spearing being considered a sport. I don't like the thought of killing another living creature for "sport". I regard spearing as an activity and in my case a way of life. I spearfish to obtain food and equally to satisfy the primeval urge to hunt. From this I do admit that I get pleasure, satisfaction and a sense of achievement. I am not a veggie and therefore I believe that it is acceptable to kill living things for food. Many of the fish I hunt require skill to catch but I don't regard any species as more or less "sporting" than any other, just different.

I wouldn't spear a tame grouper any more than I would spear my neighbours goldfish. However, I think giving wild fish names and altering their natural behaviour by feeding and interacting with them is a circus trick and unless done in a marine park is bound to end in disaster. Incidentally I am not totally against something like this in the way that I see the benefit in zoos as a means to educate those humans not fortunate enough to see the natural world in its wild state.

In conclusion (sorry I've rambled on) I see where Mike is coming from and I wish him success in introducing people to fish for their enjoyment but where this involves taming fish that are legal to hunt then it is always going to end in tears.

Dave
 
Reactions: jwells1989
greendiver, sorry to hear about the loss of your fish freinds,
i to have watched these videos on youtube of people spearing big groupers and have not been impressed, some have too made me quite angry, some of these poor things have been so tame that they just sit there with a spearo pointing a speargun right in its face then shooting it. (no skill in that), just like shooting wrasse. i personally would not shoot a big grouper, as i just cant see the point, i would much rather go out and shoot a fish that has been a challenge to catch and that i know that i have worked for.

As for the spearfishing being a sport, i too dont like the idea of that, i have seen some pictures of competitions and the massives catches of bass and mullet and just kind of see it as unnessasary. i have always speared for fish that i am actually going to eat, and NOT just for the hell of it. but thats kind of off topic. (sorry)

just my opinion on things please dont take it the wrong way just, thought i would contribute,
josh
 
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Reactions: Old Man Dave
I seem to have inadvertently derailed the thread by introducing the word "sport."

I don't compete myself.

Please substitute "As for it being too easy" for "As far as sport goes" in my previous post.

My point was that it isn't necessarily "unfair" or "taking advantage" to shoot a grouper when it has not been domesticated.
 
i see where you are coming from bill mcintyre, i am no expert on grouper by any means, i know what you mean, i suppose if the grouper is not being hunted over grounds where the scuba divers regularly visit then i can see the grouper being less freindly, and therefore harder to shot.

i dont know about the ones in the youtube videos as they look quite tame, does anybody have a opinion on them, do you think they are slightly tame or not. if the ones in the videos where not tame one then i cant imagine how close you could get to a tame one.

sorry fo using the word "tame" so many times in one sentance, could not think of any other way to put it.
 
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It's a very, well interesting isn't the word but for the sake of a better one an interesting argument. Sport. well I'm always the first to call it a sport, perhaps because I don't always shoot every fish I see. I mentioned in another thread today of a huge Mullet that has been coming to say hello to the locals this year and that none of us have shot it. Why that should be is a mystery but there you go but the fish still swims in all its majesty. I feel better about myself knowing it still swims but I know for a fact that most other spearos would have bagged it. Maybe those who might of see less of these fish than we do and are less willing to believe that a more suitable target will present itself sooner or later. Perhaps if the scuba divers told the "famous" spearfishers that five huge groupers can be found in some barren piece of sea the chances of Bobo's survival would increase, or even better left Bobo to being a wild fish all together. But I do sympathise, I would be gutted if someone shot that Mullet.
 
What i see in Bobo's eyes is " where's the dinner? Bobo want eat." Mr Bobo is part of the food chain. I think of my farming friends who give their animals good living conditions up until they wack em.

Going after 'sporting' prey has its important place. Commercial fisheries often target the easiest return on their time and then only switch tactics to the next biggest return when they have exhausted their supply. Sport serves to limit laziness and balances our advantage reaped by the use of a pointy stick. The contest between human and animal can never be truly fair because we adapt and exploit as fast or maybe even faster than a virus.

Pardon me, i've got to go take the neighbor's fat dog out of the oven before it burns and stinks up the kitchen.
 
Reactions: spaghetti
I say poke bobo with a knife every time you see him. Be gentle but teach em some Tough love. Dont make friends with someones dinner, unless you want to be upset.

Maybe his name is really Dodo, it would sound the same underwater. Remember what happened to them?
 
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I agree that it is not fair to spear a tame fish.

The issue of taming wild animals is a difficult one. I think it is generally not a good idea, but if they are fed small amounts of natural food, and not made totally dependant on humans, it may do more good than harm. People understand the need for conservation more if they can interact with wildlife.

Some fish really do become 'silly tame' and lose all fear of humans. My pet ones are so tame that changing their water has become difficult. I try to scoop out some of their water with a plastic tub, but they will not move out of the way, and it is easy to accidentally knock a few scales off one. Slapping the tub on the surface to scare them off worked for a while, but now has no effect.

At least catching them is easier, as there is no need to chase them with a net. Most can be picked up.
 
 
I had a similar situation once. I was diving in a place that was not a reserve and a diver on the beach told me not to shoot his pet lingcod that lived in the cove. He said he'd been feeding it for 10yrs. He said it weighed at least 30lbs. Well I saw it and I didn't shoot it, I actually petted it.
I thought that other divers would get more satisfaction out of seeing it than I would out of shooting it. There are plenty of fish in the sea and I think the smaller ones sometimes taste better than extremely old ones.
Well I did shoot a 20lb ling that day.
Well that poor guy got his heart broken because someone went and shot his pet ling soon after. I think if people want to make friends with fish they should do it in a reserve. Otherwise they are doing the fish a disservice because someone will eventually take it. It is natural for animals to fear people, we eat them.
 
Hi Dave, you couldnt have said it any better, I rest my case!!!
BTW, Yep, I consider myself a lucky guy,:t, however, there is a balance in life..if you know what I mean!

I wouldn't spear a tame grouper any more than I would spear my neighbours goldfish. However, I think giving wild fish names and altering their natural behaviour by feeding and interacting with them is a circus trick and unless done in a marine park is bound to end in disaster. Incidentally I am not totally against something like this in the way that I see the benefit in zoos as a means to educate those humans not fortunate enough to see the natural world in its wild state.

In conclusion (sorry I've rambled on) I see where Mike is coming from and I wish him success in introducing people to fish for their enjoyment but where this involves taming fish that are legal to hunt then it is always going to end in tears.

Dave[/QUOTE]
 

Dude!! You miss the point, I know it is difficult to catch a big grouper, I live in Spain and fish a lot, I have also lost a couple of spears and even a gun trying, so I understand...I am talking about groupers like "bobo"......
 
As my name says Grouper are my favourite prey, but as i do live in a very small place i also know all the scuba boys and their friendly feeds, so its just pure ethics, dont kill what others make a living from because they might hurt you:martial. but also as said if you really do not know, then fair game, but if you do then hide in shame:rcard.
 
Reactions: Pastor and spaghetti
I have a pet grouper too, but also spear them (mulatas o viajas).

When I first started freediving it was the first one I had ever seen, as they live in caves (territorial) they are easier to go back to. This one is (not "was") about 12kg. The rock that forms the cave it lives in is in front of my living room at the beach house. I would swim out to the rock, call my kids to the terrace, and dive down to see it. Only in about 4 meters. The grouper would let me enter the cave, getting within arms reach before bolting out the back door. He knew me, I thought.

About 6 months later I get a speargun and start hunting, about 300M away from this particular grouper. Of course I would never shoot him. The funny thing is that now when I visit, unarmed, he bolts from me on sight......

I believe that, unfortunately, hunting has changed my underwater body language, and although he can't see the gun, senses danger.

Shame really! Quite disappointed in my self in some way.

Sorry for ramble....
 
maybe send him a neighbourly apple pie next time so that he will warm up to you again
cheers, im rambling myself
 
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