Tom Sietas

[sceptichristian]

Hi all, I'm new.

I'm interested in the 4 main static and dynamic apnea world records, all of which are held by Tom Sietas at the moment. I have no problem accessing the details, e.g. through AIDA or the guinness book of records, but obvioulsly there are delays of weeks or even months or more for them to be updated. For now, it's one specific record I'm keen to know about - the static on pure oxygen.

According to Tom Sietas' website (www.tomsietas.com), he was to do a 100% pure oxygen static attempt on HIS (not THE, so presumably it was a better attempt on his own, not a previous) world record - of 14' 15". It was either live or pre-recorded, on the (French) TV programme, 'La soirée de l'étrange' last night (24th February 2006). I know he's keen to 'officially' break the 15 minute barrier, something he's done in training a lot.

I have done a search, but can't find anything (on the web, news or group chat/blogs) other than a few photo's without captions of his attempt on the TV programme website.

Did anyone see it or does anyone have any more details? Was it live or pre-recorded? Was it an attempt on his 14' 15" record or was it THE 14'' 15" record (don't think so, that was in Italy on a Guinness show) or another failure/success?

Any update would be gladly appreciated here and at stephen.owen@gmail.com

Thanks, Steve

 

[spaghetti]

May I ask you why are you (and many others DB mates) so much interested in "records" of that sort? Tom is a great sportsman and i don't discuss that, but not for his oxygen static performances: for me that's not apnea, it's something for the Guinness book of records, like the world's longest sausage and things like that. It gives to tv audience a wrong idea about freediving. When i saw him on italian tv sucking oxygen from a tank, it didn't make me feel proud of being a freediver.
Just my "two cents"

 

[Alexx]

Spaghetti, it seems to me that you didn't take in mind that Steve "is new". You must understand that public audience sees only minutes and meters, without going into it deeply. That's normal. I don't believe that anyone who is familiar with the rules is considering those two statics equal.

Sure, all of us who participate in AIDA competitions understand that a serious competitor has to attract some attention to gain some sponsors. That's why we in Croatia have 2 guys that went diving deep under ice. It is very sad that AIDA isn't recognized by olympic commitee, not as an olympic sport, just as a sport. That's all we want.

Deep down there is enough space for all of us.

Ciao!

 

[SpearoPimp]

i cant believe a sport as ancient and "basic in principle" as freediving isn't in the olympics.

 

[sceptichristian]

Thanks Spaghetti, Alexx and SpearoPimp for your responses, but I am keen to get answers to my question. If this free-diving site (of which static and dynamic apnea are a part and fully recognised by AIDA) is NOT the place for my queston, where is please?

Many free divers disagree over the many other different events in open water. Some support the need to be pure and free when diving, i.e. no fins or propultion, pushing the skill of breath hold (and timing it) to the limit - but this is very dangerous in one sense. Others prefer 'whatever means necessary' to go as deep as you can on one breath. This relies less on length of breath holding and more on concentration in other areas like fast equalisation. Do we follow AIDA rules or do as some divers do (e.g. a 209.6m/690 feet videod dive)? I just mention 2 oposing events here; I could mention others or the 'one breath underwater as well' or the longest time underwater in an hour etc. My point here is just that we are all different and like options.

I am a qualified diver who has enjoyed scuba-diving all over the world and free-diving for fun and free-diving (of ALL sorts and at ALL levels in ALL countries, including the ice dives and, if I dare venture to air breathing, other events like surface ice swimming in the arctic and antarctic) as an observer and noting and keeping up with events AND new records, including novelty stuff (which, as Alexx pointred out, brings attention and money through sponsorship and public interest to the sport). It seems that some here do not agree with records, figures, stats, times and/or numbers to some degree. I respect everyones opinion, but I wouldn't question why some do or don't like certain aspects - in a negative way, without finding ouyt more details. I bet many free-divers also enjoy the novelty, record and eye catching bits as well. The world would be very boring if we all did and agreed upon the very same thnings.

I too (SpearoPimp) think that various free-diving events should be more recognised sports and olympic events, but I think there are definite and specific safety areas of concern that prevent many organisations from accepting or welcoming them. There are many accidents - serious ones too, in this sport. Perhaps some research and comparisons to other dangerous recognised sports (e.g. in the winter olympics like tobogons, multiple ski flips, 50 feet off a ramp etc.) could be done to help support the notion and deal with the arguments presented? Even AIDA (the most recognised free-diving organisation) is run entirely by volunteers and contributions, so there is a long way to go yet. I think Tom (Sietas) has a great and humble attitude and I applaud his keeness to enter many minor competitions, in his support for AIDA and doing high profile events like numerous record attempts on TV and in competition. Others like Tania Streeter do similar too.

I think this could spark off a thread (anyone want to go for it?) on numerous topics, e.g.

the different values/skills (agrrements and disagreements) offered by the different disciplines of free-diving events;

the plug to get free-diving recognised as a more prominent sport with thought given to safety, even see-through man-made (underground or overground) towers of water or ocean based centres.

The value of so many deep diving disciplines rather than more basic (boring?) 'pure' disciplines like static and dynamic apnea. Surely each diving discipline just adds a twiddly bit to make things more complex and dangerous to human life, even when proper training is done. Not necessarily my views, but food for thought to get discussion going here. You may well have covered it on this site, if so, sorry. I'm new!

 

[Amphibious]

i cant believe a sport as ancient and "basic in principle" as freediving isn't in the olympics.

Freediving as a sport really isn;t that old. think back. No one used to waste their time to freedive just for kicks. it was to collect pearls, sponges, fish....


so if we're going on tradition, then freediving as a sport is only the modern interpretation, and spearfishing would be the olympic contender (now try and sell THAT to the "purists" )

:t

oh, another interesting link.....

[ame="http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=131236"]Tom Sietas - ScubaBoard[/ame]

 

[efattah]

Tom Sietas' 14+ min 100% O2 breath-holds 'broke' the so-called old world record of 13'50" or so (set in the 1950's), except that they were breath-holds done in two entirely different categories.

Tom's event was far more difficult. He took his last breath of 100% O2 at atmospheric pressure, whereas the guy in 1950 took his last breath from a cylinder at the bottom of a deep swimming pool. This means that the total number of oxygen molecules the guy (in 1950) inhaled was far greater due to the pressure, allowing for a much longer breath-hold.

So, even within the realm of 100% O2 breath-holds, there are different categories which aren't even distinguished.

 

[Billextreme]

Hi friends,

To Amphibious: the first Official National Championship in freediving, Constant and Dynamic, where hold 1905, July the 16th in Sweden. I guess there are sports younger than that in the Olympics.

For some more funny info, please take look at:
http://www.apneamania.com/code/worldrec_main.asp?typeID=spr&specID=amap

have a nice day
B

 

[Alexx]

Thanks Spaghetti, Alexx and SpearoPimp for your responses, but I am keen to get answers to my question. If this free-diving site (of which static and dynamic apnea are a part and fully recognised by AIDA) is NOT the place for my queston, where is please?

This is the right place to ask I just wanted to point out to Spaghetti that O2 static isn't what we promote in a way like we do with AIDA disciplines. That was just one beautiful and interesting performance.

I think this could spark off a thread (anyone want to go for it?) on numerous topics, e.g.

the different values/skills (agrrements and disagreements) offered by the different disciplines of free-diving events;

the plug to get free-diving recognised as a more prominent sport with thought given to safety, even see-through man-made (underground or overground) towers of water or ocean based centres.

The value of so many deep diving disciplines rather than more basic (boring?) 'pure' disciplines like static and dynamic apnea. Surely each diving discipline just adds a twiddly bit to make things more complex and dangerous to human life, even when proper training is done. Not necessarily my views, but food for thought to get discussion going here. You may well have covered it on this site, if so, sorry. I'm new!

Actually, I wouldn't like to start discussing about different values of different disciplines. As I mentioned above, there is enough space for every freediver and every discipline no matter is it AIDA, CMAS or something else as long as safety precautions are taken. Discussions about safety though, should be mentioned even more. When I watched Martin's dynamic under ice (which is not a recognized discipline) I was glad to see safety precautions that were taken. I don't know much (anything?) about his personality, but that made him great in my eyes. Not the numbers or difficulty.

D(r)ive safely and responsibly rofl

 

[Kimmo]

Hello,

With all respect I do not recommend to play with the oxygen. There seems to be a risk to have a CO2 poisoning which sometimes leads to coma. Just an example: I once resqued a person who did 250 dynamic with pure O2 and it took me about 10 minutes to get this person alive again.

I have resqued (too) many BO:s as well as sambas and these cases are easy ones to resque, but the case above was totally different.

deeply,

- kimmo

 

[spaghetti]

Alexx, relax please. You post to me that I "didn't take in mind", that I "must understand", and finally you post again and "point out" to me...Did my post make you so angry? Sorry if so, I just wrote that apnea is a thing, oxygen tank is another, just in my honest opinion.
Peace.

 

[Alexx]

Sorry Spaghetti if my posts sound agressively, it wasn't my intention

 

[sceptichristian]

Hello again everyone.
Don't worry Spaghetti, Alexx is being perfectly nice and reasonable, he is not having a go at you at all and certainly is not angry.
I'd first like to return to one point which some haven't grasped yet, and then raise another related one.

Several of you don't like the oxygen static event. Fine, so don't participate, follow or watch it. The main reason has been (not safety, but) the 'unnaturalness'.

By this measure, which is more natural, a guy under water with NOTHING but his own lungs and no way to breathe, sat there until he has to inhale or a guy wearing a wet suit, goggles, fins, nose clip and weights, holding a machine that drags him/her down under its (not her/his) power? Food for thought. Oxygen beforehand (in the static) does not seem to make it anywhere near as unnatural as the dive I mentioned, but that's only my opinion - I still enjoy ALL the free diving events.

It is a case of degree though. Can you see how some see weighted sleds (even if they are equal to all) or variable weight or unnatural manual propultion or protection, (like fins, weights, dry suits under ice or even goggles or a nose clip) or multiple breaths whilst under water etc. can be seen as 'unnatural'? Please think about this before reading on.

Sometimes we get so comfortable and used to what we have, we assume that what we have is right or O.K. and don't consider the origins or points mentioned above. Just because an event is accepted or rejected by AIDA or another organisation, doesn't make it right or wrong either. Snowboarding was only accepted by the olympics recently. It doesn't mean it was wrong prior to acceptance, and the lack of apnea and other since dropped events, doesn't make them wrong either.

Sport is largely accepted due to interest because interest generates viewers which generates sponsorship and money and promotion. Did you know that hockey is the national sport of India? But Indians have little interest and prefer cricket, so the national side often all share an old railway carriage to sleep in due to lack of funds.

It would seem that you are either a purist (and so reject several events) or open to anything, but just have your own preferences and opinions.

But a middle ground is hard to justify beyond personal opinion, because if you publically condemn something, you have suggested that it is wrong 'in itself'. In fact there is no standard by which to justify this, even safety within reason (e.g. how safe need it be?), only opinion.

When I was a child, I watched the field event of 'pole vault' in the olympics, one of many sports I took up later. I remember my dad saying how unnatural it was. He felt that people could just go on using longer or springier sticks and materials to make a complete farse of the event and any true comparison of ability or competitors. Like in diving, could we end up with jet propultion on our backs to compete? Where is the line of acceptability or naturalness, e.g. in free diving? Can YOU categorically say?

A wholly 'pure' sporting competion or games might be some people's dream, and there is a good argument for this. The early olympics had dynamic apnea, standing high and long jump etc., purist events. But there are arguments against it too.

Most sports today have unnatural additions. Hurdles - how high should they be and why not have another event with higher/lower ones for smaller/taller people? Weapons in the biathlon. Do they have magnified sights? Some weapons have the red laser dot for precission, reducing human skill. Some athletes run in bare feet. Some are bigger or taller - should compensation be made for this? Either weights (like horse racing) or a further distance or seperate events like in boxing for different sizes? Sometimes additions are made for safety - like boxing gloves or F1 cars. What about the disabled olympics? Would you be O.K. with free diving records for people with one lung, one leg, little co-oirdination etc.? I'm O.K. with a mixture of pure and aided sports and I'll just choose not to follow ones that I feel are too unnatural for ME.

Like Alexx said (twice): there's plenty of room and scope for everyone and most of us really are all on the same side.

P.S. I hope some of you Europeans (whose English really impresses me!) are O.K. with MY English, which can be badly written - sorry.

Kind regards,

Steve

 

[naiad]

With all respect I do not recommend to play with the oxygen. There seems to be a risk to have a CO2 poisoning which sometimes leads to coma. Just an example: I once resqued a person who did 250 dynamic with pure O2 and it took me about 10 minutes to get this person alive again.

I have resqued (too) many BO:s as well as sambas and these cases are easy ones to resque, but the case above was totally different.

Scary. I guess it must be much harder to recover from hypercapnia than hypoxia, because it takes much longer to get rid of CO2 than to absorb O2.

Maybe it's different with dynamic than static, because the movement generates CO2, so it's easy to get very hypercapnic.

Lucia

 

[kingohyes]

The difficulties with a hypercapnic blackout, could they occur from a regular dynamic or static breathhold without breathing pure O2? Could it be harder to rescue a person who did no warmup/breatheup than a person who did a aggressive warmup/hyperventilation?

 

[naiad]

I started a thread about this some time ago.
http://forums.deeperblue.net/forum12/thread63194.html

 

[sceptichristian]

Hello all.

Well I must admit to being somewhat surpised the lack of interest in what I thought was a series of intelligent and relevent topics.

I was also surprised by no-one knowing about, or having an interest in this world record free-diving apnea event or following it up in this (specific Tom Sietas) thread.

I thought I followed the rules and posted in a correct/related new forum. Maybe I have misunderstood the site or it is not well used, especially by French apneists/divers who may have been more likely to see it. A scuba site put me onto you.

For anyone (e.g. the forum experts, long standers and moderators) who complain about the lack of recognistion of free diving in future, perhaps you can take note of this post.

I found Tom's E-Mail and contacted him direct. He replied immediately and gave me all the details I wanted and more.

Best wishes and most of all, safe diving to you all,

Steve

 

[Panos Lianos]

Hello Steve,

Here is my own personal opinion.

The freediving disciplines that AIDA recognizes in competitions are: Static, dynamic, dynamic without fins, constant weight, constant weight without fins and free immersion. All these disciplines use regular equipment that the "mean" freediver can find in shops around the world.

Sure it would PERHAPS be harder and more "natural" to do the depth disciplines without a wetsuit, BUT wetsuits are a common thing these days. Imagine how many different categories there would be if AIDA would recognize records done "without a wetsuit" or "with one fin" or "without a mask", "under ice", "in cold water", "with eyes closed" etc. I think everyone would be able to set a world record in his own category. There has to be a line and AIDA has done this by providing 6 competition disciplines, an extra 2 "record" disciplines (variable and no-limits) and a set of rules.

Doing a static on pure oxygen is perhaps a way to promote apnea in general, give some exposure for your sponsors etc.

 

[cebaztian]

O2 dives

... it took me about 10 minutes to get this person alive again. I have RESCUED (too) many BO:s as well as sambas and these cases are easy ones to resque, but the case above was totally different.
kimmo

KIMMO - in what way - and why? Do you think static differs from Dynamic when it comes to O2 dives?

Sebastian
Sweden
http://www.fridykning.se/nordicdeep

 

[Erik]

]
Well I must admit to being somewhat surpised the lack of interest in what I thought was a series of intelligent and relevent topics.
I was also surprised by no-one knowing about, or having an interest in this world record free-diving apnea event or following it up in this (specific Tom Sietas) thread.

O2 records are just not that interesting, especially when divers using natural methods aren't that far behind. And we've discussed it at length in the past, sorry.
This kind of thing is interesting to landlubbers and scubadivers sometimes and that's fine, but you can see by the response to the thread that it's not a respected discipline and doesn't excite most freedivers.
And sponsors of freediving events are well aware of what they are up against! rofl
Peace,
Erik Y.