Training and insomnia

[Ms Mer]

I have only very recently started learning freediving (done intro course and joined a club). We train in the evenings and I find that after a session I find it hard to sleep. I am really enjoying learning and do get a bit nervous in an excited sort of way before sessions. After sessions I feel very calm but I find once in bed I can't stay asleep (as in like now at 2.30am after last night's session!).

Is this common? Or is it likely to be more related to my excitement about the training?

I have searched through the forum and have not found any thing on this.

cheers

 

[Herup]

Hi Ms Mer

Seems like Maui400 and you are experiencing the same thing....

http://forums.deeperblue.com/static-dynamic/94769-cant-sleep-after-max.html#post881112

I have occasionally experienced something similar, especially after long and tough FRC sessions. I´d suspect some result of vagus nerve stimulation, but its just a guess.

Best regards
Herup

 

[Kars]

Hi Ms Mer and Maui400,

I have no clue why you have that experience. Like you I suspect excitement and the body running 'high speed' after an strong physical workout. Similar to running 10 miles and trying to sleep right afterwards, it isn't going to work

So My suggestion is to do your most challenging dives in the beginning of the training session, and use the rest for recovery, technique, relaxation, fun, games etc. After the training make sure to drink enough , slow down, and eat the nutrients your body need for recovery.
Avoid bright lights, maybe some slow music, and the body processing the food will bring up the feeling of tiredness and sleepiness. Drinking some warm milk with honey, grandma wisdom

I would be very pleased to know the cause and working solutions of your interesting case.


Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[Herup]

Hi Kars

Dare I suggest a few beers...:fridayzzz

 

[Kars]

hehe LOL, well all sorts of liquor would do. Red Whine, hot chocolate with whisky / rum etc.
Though some nice anti oxidants in the form of a grapefruit + banana smoothy would be more healthy after such a heavy work out.

 

[trux]

This may be rather complex, and there may be more effects and factors involved, but there is indeed a strong link between hypoxia and/or hypocapnia and insomnia. I do not really think that you stay hypoxic after the training or directly as a result of it - more likely the O2 saturation level comes to the normal rather quick (unless there was some lung injury, for example after a lung squeeze in depth). However, the natural balance may be disrupted and the intensive exposure to high CO2 levels may lead to weaker than normal respiratory drive that then results in hypoxia. Another possibility (but I think less probable in our case) is paradoxally the exact opposite - hyperventilation. If for some reason the balance was disrupted and you started hyperventilating, it would also lead to cerebral hypoxia due to stronger Bohr effect, and the carotidal vasoconstriction. So both extremes, hyperentilation and hypoventilation would lead to hypoxia and consequently to insomnia.

If you enter the terms into Google, you get plenty of documents speaking about this topic:

https://www.google.fr/search?q=insomnia+AND+%28hypoxia+OR+hypercapnia%29

I picked two from the top that may be of interest:
Sleep, Insomnia, Brain Oxygen Levels and Breathing
Hypoxic insomnia: effects of carbon monoxide and acclimatization

 

[ReefTroll]

Though some nice anti oxidants in the form of a grapefruit + banana smoothy would be more healthy after such a heavy work out.

Beer it is!

 

[Ms Mer]

Hi Ms Mer and Maui400,

I have no clue why you have that experience. Like you I suspect excitement and the body running 'high speed' after an strong physical workout. Similar to running 10 miles and trying to sleep right afterwards, it isn't going to work

So My suggestion is to do your most challenging dives in the beginning of the training session, and use the rest for recovery, technique, relaxation, fun, games etc. After the training make sure to drink enough , slow down, and eat the nutrients your body need for recovery.
Avoid bright lights, maybe some slow music, and the body processing the food will bring up the feeling of tiredness and sleepiness. Drinking some warm milk with honey, grandma wisdom

I would be very pleased to know the cause and working solutions of your interesting case.

Hi Kars
Thanks for that. I definitely feel on a bit of a natural high after the sessions. Not in a head spinning way, more like when something has gone well and you are please with your achievement. Perhaps adrenaline still in my system.

I don't have any control over the order of things in training as I train with a group/club and the training plan is run by them. I only started two weeks ago and have been to 3 sessions - 3 statics and 1 dynamics. I am very much a novice at this stage, so I guess every session, I am pushing myself to do things I have never done before. While my static times and length of dynamic dives are not high, they are more than my body (and mind) have previously dealt with, if that makes sense? The group trains 7-9pm, which is later than I normally exercise. However, with being so new and not having met enough people to have a training buddy it is more practical for me to learn freediving skills in the safety of the group.

I wonder if doing dry statics and apnea walks would have an effect, i.e getting my body more used to it?

I'll try you ideas with nutrition and relaxation after and let you know how I get on!

Ms Mer

 

[Ms Mer]

Dare I suggest a few beers...:fridayzzz

Herup I think that would be like :head !! LOL

 

[maui400]

Ms Mer's experiences sound indeed quite similar to mine.
After the first day of the comp two weeks ago I had insomnia rather badly. My OTs were quite late: DYN - 20:00; DNF - 22:00. I went to bed at 01:00, fell asleep at 3:00 and woke up at 6:00.
I'll try to check if one of trux's theories might apply for me.
My own theory is that I'm not trained very well in therms of high CO2 and low O2. Thus even I seem to stand it quite well during a max, my body experiences a situation which it is not used to. Maybe comparable to someone running a long distance though he didn't train it before.

 

[landshark sa]

Hi Ms Mer,

I used to be a pretty competitive cyclist and used to experience insomnia during certain training stages. I'm not sure if this is what you are experiencing but it may help explain what you are going through.

After a couple of months off, before the raceing season, we would focus on base level training (long slow rides) and then switch over to more intensive and focused training rides (intervals, motorpaceing and race simulations).

It was in the beginning of the latter phase where I would have insomnia, especially after very hard interval days where I would be utterly smashed after a day's training but be totally unable to fall asleep - a pretty bad situation to be in if you expect your body to function at 100% the following day. These episodes would however subside as my body got used to the level of intensity and after a couple of weeks would dissapear into a deep slumber

The only thing I can attribute it to is conditioning. Specifically because my body was used to be able to function at a certain level during racing season or when peaking, when trying to push it to these levels in the pre-season it would cause insomnia, and when my form improved the insomnia would dissapear.

So my guess is your body is / was at some stage used to operate at a certain fitness level and now you are simulating some of the same training stimulus. If this is the case then all that you have to do is give it some time, once it's used to the input and expectations it will fall into balance agian and you should be able to enjoy a good nights rest.

 

[Ms Mer]

Hi Ms Mer,

It was in the beginning of the latter phase where I would have insomnia, especially after very hard interval days where I would be utterly smashed after a day's training but be totally unable to fall asleep - a pretty bad situation to be in if you expect your body to function at 100% the following day. These episodes would however subside as my body got used to the level of intensity and after a couple of weeks would dissapear into a deep slumber

The only thing I can attribute it to is conditioning. Specifically because my body was used to be able to function at a certain level during racing season or when peaking, when trying to push it to these levels in the pre-season it would cause insomnia, and when my form improved the insomnia would dissapear.

Hi landshark
Thanks for your input. I also do road cycling and running (training for those had dropped of for a few months due to an injury) so I can understand your explanation in the way you relate it to your road cycling training and moving from a focus on endurance to intervals and other specific sessions. That makes a lot of sense. I noticed in the dynamic session in particular (when we were doing drills) that I was getting lactic acid build up in my legs from about the 4th dive on (felt like I'd being doing hill repeats).

I think I also need to do some more reading on nutrition and try a few things with my eating. As the training sessions at in the evening, I have being eating a light meal about 2 hrs before training - perhaps not enough carbs in it - and also maybe not eating enough (or the right food) after training as it's been hard to eat something substantial at 9.30pm.

Ms Mer

 

[Kars]

Right after under the shower I like to drink a 0,5L home-made milkshake containing:
Full milk, 2 banana's, cinamen, ginger ball+ a bit of ginger sirup, magnesium - calsium - D vitamin supplement. (All organic). After cycling a modest 7,5Km back to home, a plate of salad containing lettuce, avocado, fish, dressing, 3 boiled eggs, tomato. Some water and or juice and or smoothy, chill out tune. Waiting for the food to digest a bit and my mind and body to slow down. Maybe some warm milk+ honey. Quick hot shower and bed.
My pool closes at 21:30 or 22:00... Maybe add nice cool down to your training. I think my cycling back acts as one. Cycling to the pool is like a partial warm-up

Also I found that there is a big difference in recovery when putting in various effort level performances. I almost seems like it follows a hyperbolic curve up. Meaning for example that a 50% static feels easy and can be done many times. A 70% is much tougher and one can do less repeats. And a 90% can only be done a couple of times during a session. Well trained freedivers manage to channel 'all' the days' energy into 1 dive. So to them having two or (God forbid more!) competition starts often means choosing which discipline they want or need to excel in that day. I have a great appreciation for Freedivers who can channel all their energy into that relative brief moment of peek performance.

 

[landshark sa]

Hi landshark
I noticed in the dynamic session in particular (when we were doing drills) that I was getting lactic acid build up in my legs from about the 4th dive on (felt like I'd being doing hill repeats).

There are other people on DB that will be able to offer a more educated answer but my guess is, as your legs are already conditioned (cycling and running) to effectively deal with lactic acid the feeling your are getting when doing dynamics is most probably more a result of your dive reflex kicking in (vasoconstriction) than lactic acid build up.

 

[Kars]

Maybe it's a bit simpler, you're just dead tired?

Maui you can try having sex after the training, men fall easily asleep after sex

 

[maui400]

Didn't work.

 

[Kars]

Keep trying, you have a good excuse now

 

[Ms Mer]

LOL! Practice makes perfect.