training recovery time; weekly schedule

[growingupninja]

For divers who are already in good shape and with some experience, what is a typical weekly training schedule?

I want to start training with a focus on apnea 5 or 6 days a week. While I am used to rigorous training schedules (as a competitive sprint/middle distance swimmer and then competitive kickboxer) I haven't ever made apnea a primary focus, so I curious what is a good recovery time for an intense apnea/lactic acid workout from those who have come before me? I think the best thing would be to stay consistent and try to do some type of apnea almost every day, with 1 or 2 intense workouts per week.

I have noticed that workouts which involve intense hypoxia tend to leave me more tired the next day (and with more lactic acid/soreness that may take up to 3 days to fully recover) than workouts which are primarily hypercapnic. I am thinking to alternate workouts between hypoxic and hypercapnic and land based cardio/power/strength--which I know is not always necessary for apnea but I enjoy having a high level of cardio, etc.

I have very little interest in statics and don't do tables unless I am also pedaling a bike. My pool training is dynamic, kick based, on an interval (either time or breath), and mostly FRC or full exhale. For the last year I've been able to spearfish in the ocean on average once or twice a week, although I don't push it and fish in our waters are relatively shallow (above 50 feet) so I get a better workout from an hour in a pool doing FRC and exhale than fishing all day. Maybe about four or five days a week I've been doing some mix of Muay Thai training or general conditioning. The Muay Thai is typical ring/fight training done on an interval, 3 min work, 1 min or 30 sec rest, with emphasis on explosive power, stamina, reflex and flexibility; the conditioning I just do at a regular gym but I am training with a similar focus, although I did start introducing a little apnea in the last year.

Thank you. This forum is an incredible resource.

 

[Kars]

It's sounds like you're an incredibly fit guy!

What are your training goals?

Why do you freedive?

 

[growingupninja]

It's sounds like you're an incredibly fit guy!

What are your training goals?

Why do you freedive?

Fitness is relative but thank you. Since I spearfish I want to have a little more bottom time at depth, and a better safety margin, and I would like to have the conditioning to fish deeper (mainly for when I travel to warmer, clearer waters).

I freedive because I love the water and especially the ocean and it's a great escape from the city. I also like to eat fish and lobster, but I am a better swimmer than spearo. I am going to take a freedive class at some point since I don't know what my max depth is and would like to find out. I have fished down to 100 ft bottom, but I wasn't having difficulty eqing and was also toting a big gun so I could definitely go deeper. I was thinking I would buy a pulse O2 meter to use in training so I can be more familiar with my limits when training.... I have never samba'd or BOed.

 

[Kars]

Ok, that's something we can work from.

In short I think you'll gain the most benefit from increasing relaxation and technique.
I really hope you have a knowledgeable buddy when you dive, because a guy with your mental and physical strength could it find surprisingly easy to dive into a black out.
3 important factors causing/contributing to a BO are, hyperventilation, dehydration and a focussed determined mind racing and not aware of the (very) subtle signs. There are many more contributing factors such as ambition, nutrition, hypothermia, falling pressure, wrong head position, misjudgement, and more.

Personally I've been experimenting lately to confirm a hypothesis. The logic appears convincing and the increasing results are promising. My goal is to take the best of FRC diving and add that to full lung diving. When I start my diving I want to have a low bloodflow, and keep that low during the dive. In order to have that I breath slow, stay relaxed. When I submerge my head and body I do it slow and pause for some time allowing my body to slow down even more before I slowly start to swim. During my swim I focus on having an easy fluid technique, while in mentally manage and I keep my bloodflow low. After the vasoconstriction is established I swim faster.

Now what you can do alone is practice to relax better with short easy dives. You come up when the urge to breath starts. With a better preparation you'll find you'll get further with increased ease. Make sure NOT to hyperventilate.

With a gun and buddy(!), practice your entry descend and ascend. Have your buddy film you, if you can, and think about relaxation, streamlining, head position.
A basic principle I've learned is that one can only loose relaxation after you start your dive. So start with great relaxation and try to maintain it on the way down and up.

Swimming, consider that water is naturally slow, swim like a wale. Also consider that more pressure on your feet does not equal more forward speed.

On land you may want to explore you limits with some static's in bed, and record how it feels, what happens on the way to a maximum dive. BTW I'm not in favour of forcing a BO. I think this surpasses our goal of self understanding. And such dives are mentally near impossible and create a bad association in our minds.
Apnea walks on soft lawn grass is also a way to explore the mind and body's responses to a max apnea performance.

However diving deep and knowing your apnea limits is very, very difficult. At depth the sensations are skewed or not there at all, various narcotic effects, distractions of every kind, changing circumstances (currents etc.). So it's best to have a wide safety margin there, enough breathing interval, hydration and a good buddy. - Share the gun, share the fun!

Having a course is very sensible!

Love, Courage and Water,

Kars

 

[growingupninja]

Thanks, yes, I have been getting better at relaxing before a dive and have discovered it helps immensely--learning the difference in my body between 'swimming' and 'diving'. When I started I could easily do fairly deep dives but I wasn't going slow enough to allow my dive reflex to activate on the way down, so I was doing something closer to a vertical dynamic swim.

I haven't done much video-taping but I did wear a goPro in some tropical waters for a few dives and realized the same thing; I was spending a lot of energy on the descent phase. It is also a weight issue; skin diving on a full lung I have never been deep enough to be especially negative. Here in California I am neutral at about 30 feet with my 5mm and the water is cold enough to activate dive reflex at the surface. Deeper dives are fairly easy since with the suit and weight I sink quickly once I become negative and spend no more energy on descent. For fishing water shallower than 30 feet I have been adding a little bit of exhale just because it is easier than fighting the suit or changing weight.

I also realized that because it has been lobster season, I had gotten in the habit of moving faster--for lobstering, I am typically doing a lot of shallow dives with a lot of finning to cover ground, and a short surface interval; more like underwater swimming than truly diving.

Anyway, as to my original question on recovery time I supposed I'll just tweak my training and work hypercapnia when I feel like I have too much lactic build-up to do hypoxic training.

 

[azapa]

..... For the last year I've been able to spearfish in the ocean on average once or twice a week, although I don't push it and fish in our waters are relatively shallow (above 50 feet) so I get a better workout from an hour in a pool doing FRC and exhale than fishing all day.

Welcome here on DB..

I don't agree with your statement above. A spearing session is normally very tiring, much more so than the equivalent pool time, no matter what you do in there. If it is not that way, you are doing something wrong!

I would suggest that, in addition to Kars' great tips, if you want to get longer, safer bottom times (and more fish) you must try to go out spearing more. More in cold waters, murkey waters, in general when you don't even feel like going out. Get out there, a lot. Take a good buddy, and with the healthy and safe competition between the two of you you will progress a ton. I hate to add, in my case at least, the comfort zone has progressed over a 5 year period. It is hard to imagine faster results in this area.

Best luck and stay safe!

 

[growingupninja]

A spearing session is normally very tiring, much more so than the equivalent pool time, no matter what you do in there. If it is not that way, you are doing something wrong!

Well, spearing can be very tough especially when conditions are challenging but I would have to counter that either you only fish at 100 feet in 10 foot swells on empty lungs with a one breath surface interval... or you are doing something wrong in your pool training!

But seriously, I can spend far more time underwater in contractions and very heavy apnea by doing FRC or exhale swims in a pool on a challenging interval than I can spearing in the ocean here. I mostly fish alone so I am conservative. Even when I go with a buddy, we won't really see each other much since our viz may be just 10ft and we'll be in heavy kelp.

 

[Kars]

I think it's better if you're not focusing on suffering, otherwise this will become attached to what you now love to do. It's very easy over train in freediving.

In order to get in shape I propose slow 33 ft dives on frc with a lot of bottom time, smooth slow movement, and a little static breathhold at beginning before you duck dive. It's function is to allow your body to relax into low bloodflow mode. Then slowly, but efficiently duckdive, retain the relaxation, and smoothly retaining a low HR - bloodflow to the depth. Closing ones eyes partially while diving, or wholly while doing static is beneficial finding your peace. Also the mindset in spearfishing is important, the aggressive one is considered less effective - even scaring fish away.

This type of diving get's me back 'in shape' in a few days of say a 3 hour session in nature. If I went out with intention of forcing my body 'in shape' then it does not happen.

 

[azapa]

If I spear in 100ft i can only manage about 10 or 12 dives a session. It is not tiring, it is completely exhausting! Most of my spearing is in 40 to 50Ft and a session lasts 20 to 25 dives, before I am too cold, or have enough fish.

I agree that with effort you could do a harder pool session. I would not because I don't like pools.

I may have mis understood your goals. But being good in a pool will not prepair you for being good in the ocean. It will help, say 20% of what you need. The rest, I insist, is gained only as a return for hard work in the sea.

To be a good spearo don't forget you need to be a good freediver (pool will help) and a good hunter (pool is no use).

Best of luck

 

[growingupninja]

Thank you for the tips and advice...

Yes, pool training is no substitute for the ocean and all the conditioning in the world does not make you a better hunter. I am living proof of that... I like to spear fish and sometimes do well but it is mostly an excuse for me to dive and if my freezer is more than half full I don't take many shots. I have twice the breathhold of some guys I fish with but when we go out together, guess who brings in more fish?

 

[azapa]

my regular dive buddy is a very good Spanish spearo. He is in quite bad physical shape (chubby!) and only does 40 or 50 second dives. He nearly always takes home more fish than me!:duh