Unconscious after 15 seconds breath hold WHY?

[defuncta]

The last time I have hold my breath, every other day or so. But sometimes, I felt a strange feeling like when I take a big breath and then hold. I get a little dizzy and a heavy feeling arises in the body, but this usually go away the first 15 seconds.

But yesterday when I was standing I took a deep breath and held my breath. Then I felt this feeling I got dizzy after just 10 seconds but this feeling did not disappear as it used to do it became more and more apparent, and after about 15 seconds or so I lost my sense of balance and everything is suddenly very confusing. For a short time I did not know where I was, im falling down on my knees becuse the balance failed me completely, my body was in that moment began to breathe unconsciously.

After a few breaths, everything come back to usual again and I stand up, it feels unreal that it was all a dream.

What is this happened to me and why I get dizzy after a few seconds when I hold my breath?

Hard and believe that the oxygen in the lungs run out after 15 seconds, heard that the lungpacking can have the lungs to press hard on the heart as you pass out, but I did not pack the air. I just taking a big breath as I can.

My breathholdning record is 5:03 and not even after that I felt dizzy as I did yesterday after only 15-20 seconds.

Grateful if someone can tell me what this is all about, and how to avoid this. It was a very unpleasant experience.

Thanks in advance and sorry for my bad english!

/ Christian

 

[chrismar]

Even without packing you can put pressure on your chest. It sounds very much like a packing blackout, though it seems you're much more susceptible than most. Low blood pressure is the most often cited reason, though no doubt other conditions contribute.

Eric Fattah has had issues in the past that he tracked to blood pressure and possibly other things, while Guy Brew also had problems that he's able to manage these days. What he eats before dives and how long before played a significant part. Also, the speed of inhale seems to have an effect for him at least.

 

[defuncta]

I usually have low blood pressure, how can I get around my problems?

The funny thing is sometimes when I lungpack I don´t get problems and somtime I dont´t lungpack i get it. Maby relaxation is a way to get around it?

 

[Simos]

Hi Christian - firstly let me just say that I am really no expert but a few thoughts:

1. Assuming you don't have any other medical problem (which might be a good idea to check anyway), it does sound like some kind of 'packing blackout'. There is an easy way of testing this - if you just hold your breath on passive exhale (which won't put any pressure on your chest), do you ever get the same dizziness after 10-15 secs?

2. Assuming you determine that it is due to pressure on your chest, the simplest thing to do I would think is to take a bit less air in (maybe 80% full).

3. Over time, I'm guessing that a good stretching regime might allow you to take a bit more air in without putting extra pressure on the chest.

4. You can also practice diaphragmatic breathing and make sure you breath into your 'belly' instead of the upper chest when you hold.

5. Low pressure - definitely something to look our for. There are accounts of issues caused by low pressure on DB, I also witnessed a related-incident first hand. You should look our for low pressure related BO/Samba after the hold too - if you have low blood pressure I believe hook breaths should help.

6. Another thing to look out for is not standing up right after a hold e.g. say you are finishing your static/dynamic and you've just placed your feet on the pool floor - get your head out of the water, give the OK sign and stay low until you've recovered (instead of standing up).

6. Don't hold your breath while standing up! (apart from other things, it's a long way to fall!)

7. Nutrition also makes a difference - certain foods (e.g. garlic) do lower blood pressure.

8. If you are doing competitions or deep dives and so on, it's definitely a good idea to get into a routine of checking your blood pressure before diving.

I hope some of these help (and of course if any of the above is not good advice, I'd love to hear from the most experienced people out there).

S

 

[cdavis]

Not to worry, happens to me too. Of course, repeated apnea induced 02 starvation of the brain has turned me into a slobbering idiot, but what does that matter?

Seriously, your symptoms are not uncommon and it does happen to me. I think what is going on is a combination of low blood pressure and contracting carotid arteries. For me it feels just like hyperventilation and I'm pretty sure it comes from the same cause, just made worse by the low blood pressure which is made worse by standing up.

Connor

 

[nostres]

Just a observation - Connor cdavis is tall and skinny, I am tall and skinny. I wonder is tall/skinny people are more prone to this than heavier built, are You?

It used to happen to me few years ago when I started playing with breathhold. But over time I worked out resistance to this somehow. I got to the point where it doesn't happen anymore unless I push very hard. Sometimes I test myself by sitting down, inhale, start packing, stand up and continue packing. If I stand strong I know I have good diving/training day ahead. I do not recommend this to You however, with low blood pressure You'll most likely colapse. I have normal bp, 120-130/80 or higher

 

[sbouaoud]

I am tall and skinny and this happens to me. I also can faint sometimes if I am in a head down position and get upright quickly. That is called orthostatic hypotension http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthostatic_hypotension and tends to affect tall and skinny people too. I wonder if the two are related?

 

[trux]

Defuncta, what was your breathing prior the breath-hold? Any longer deep breathing? Hyperventilation alone can lead to sever cerebral hypoxia (and to a blackout too). If combined with a chest pressure and/or lower blood pressure. or together with other contributing factors, a blackout can easily happen very early. To find out what is the main factor in your case, you best do a few breath-holds while being monitored by an medicine doctor experienced with breath-hold diving (and there are several of them in Sweden).

 

[wjohnson100]

Coupla things going on here that I can see and a couple already touched on in replies. All this is assuming you don't have some underlying medical condition causing this.

1. As has been said, not wise to do breath holds standing up.

2. What was your breathing before these holds? Excessive breathing only makes this problem worse, and can be the cause of it in the first place. If you are a bit light headed or loopy at the beginning of a hold (tingling fingers or something like that), then you are breathing excessively. I had this problem of brief periods of unconsciousness about 30 seconds into holds that I eliminated by reducing breathing rate before the holds.

3. Packing/full breath putting pressure on the heart and corresponding arteries and restricting blood flow is a potential cause too.

Suggestion:

Try this lying down - whatever breathing rate you are using before these holds, reduce it. Then try holding. If you still have the problem. Then try doing a hold with no special breathing at all, no purge breaths, nothing. If you are packing, try doing it slower so the body can better adjust to the changes in blood pressure. You can also try doing your final inhale slower for the same reason.

This is all likely happening from a combination of excessive breathe up and pressure on the heart from the full breath/packing and the shock to the system that could entail.

If you still want to do some sort of special breathing (by special breathing I mean just about anything that is not normal tidal breathing), one way to take the edge off what you are doing is to do a breath hold before that with no special breathing as a set up for the breathing technique you are using for the subsequent hold.

If none of this helps clarify what is going on, get back to me and we will move on to try to figure it out.

 

[Johan Andersson]

There are certainly several factors that could contribute here. Many have been mentioned earlier. From my perspective, the combination of a high intrathoracic pressure (from holding a large volume of air in your lungs), your low blood pressure, and the fact that you were standing up are important factors. These factors will contribute to a reduced blood flow to the brain, leading to your symptoms.

I just wanted to add that if you are close to Lund (or here for some reason), you could come by my lab and we could do some measurements to see what is happening. PM me if you are interested.

/Johan

 

[jwigga]

Here are two research papers. The first one basically shows you that if you lung pack you could get 'asystole' - in medicine 'a' means absence of, and 'systole' is heart pumping - so basically asystole = your heart has stopped. This guys heart stopped because he was lung packing. Also - myoglobin is elevated in these people, and myoglobin indicates muscle breakdown/can be really bad for the heart.

Asystole and increased serum myoglobin levels associated with 'packing blackout' in a competitive breath-hold diver - PubMed

Many competitive breath-hold divers use 'glossopharyngeal insufflation', also called 'lung packing', to overfill their lungs above normal total lung capacity. This increases intrathoracic pressure, decreases venous return, compromises cardiac pumping, and reduces arterial blood pressure...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This second paper is evidence that 6 people that did lung packing had 'pneumomediastinum' on CT during lung packing, and 3 days after - which means there is air in the space outside their lungs. The fact there is still air in the space outside their lungs after 3 days indicates damage to the lung tissue.

Glossopharyngeal insufflation causes lung injury in trained breath-hold divers - PubMed

Barotrauma was observed in breath-hold divers who increased their lung volumes by GI. The long-term effects of this barotrauma are uncertain and longitudinal studies are required to assess cumulative lung damage.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

My advice - lung packing makes no sense if you don't want to put yourself at risk. I'm not making it up. READ THE PAPERS!

 

[J Campbell]

I never learned to pack so have no real experience. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Think about this, when you pack you already have fully filled your lungs as big as you can - your breath hold essentially starts at that moment - there is no more exhale/inhale from that point on. Then you commence packing, using muscles and burning O2, and it's certainly not relaxing. I've seen guys pack for up to a minute. At the end of packing you go under and only then does the clock start. So you have lost a minute of time by packing. Does the little bit of extra air really make up for burnt O2 and the lost minute?

 

[grarena]

I wonder the same thing. Does packing truly add that much? Maybe it does but the lost time and energy makes me wonder. Having been doing static breath holding for 3 solid years now I’ve never tried it. My PR is 10:05. I hope to post this in a competition in the next year or so.

I never learned to pack so have no real experience. But it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Think about this, when you pack you already have fully filled your lungs as big as you can - your breath hold essentially starts at that moment - there is no more exhale/inhale from that point on. Then you commence packing, using muscles and burning O2, and it's certainly not relaxing. I've seen guys pack for up to a minute. At the end of packing you go under and only then does the clock start. So you have lost a minute of time by packing. Does the little bit of extra air really make up for burnt O2 and the lost minute?

 

[hansa123]

I think I have the same problem as the OP. Especially when doing apnea walks this is an issue as I have written here (https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/dizzy-when-doing-apnea-walks.118963/#post-1000647). I am also tall and skinny and have a general low to normal blood pressure. I did some tests today and measured my PB directly after deep inhalation (no packing) when sitting. I measured two times and got very low values (80/54 and 67/47). Especially the second time I really felt this in my head and it was not pleasant. Sure, there is some measurement error, but these numbers are problematic. I am not sure how to proceed from here. Maybe stretching is a way to go. In general, I think a low PB is healthy and I would rather not change my lifestyle or diet to raise it (say, eat a lot of salt or avoid garlic). Any further advice is welcome.

 

[hansa123]

I think I have the same problem as the OP. Especially when doing apnea walks this is an issue as I have written here (https://forums.deeperblue.com/threads/dizzy-when-doing-apnea-walks.118963/#post-1000647). I am also tall and skinny and have a general low to normal blood pressure. I did some tests today and measured my PB directly after deep inhalation (no packing) when sitting. I measured two times and got very low values (80/54 and 67/47). Especially the second time I really felt this in my head and it was not pleasant. Sure, there is some measurement error, but these numbers are problematic. I am not sure how to proceed from here. Maybe stretching is a way to go. In general, I think a low PB is healthy and I would rather not change my lifestyle or diet to raise it (say, eat a lot of salt or avoid garlic). Any further advice is welcome.

I meant to write BP, not PB, sorry.