Unknown Pneumatic

[Don Paul]

This gun was with a group of guns I purchased many years ago. I never shot it as I need to fab a shaft for it, along with a reseal. It lacks the quality of my other vintage nemrods.Any one know the maker? No markings that I have found yet. Here are some images, I don't know if it was ever shot as the oil is still very clear. I have not pulled the piston as yet and the gun is missing the handle scales, so the search for images begins. I have not seen one in any of my friends collections.
Thanks in advance, Don

 

[Don Paul]

Here it is ( 4th from the top) with a few of my Nemrods, the Crucero (2nd) gives a size comparison.
Cheers, Don

 

[Spaniard]

Is it any one of these?

ALITAN-SUB

Scroll down to Modelo, Fabricante, Caracteristicas and click o each one which brings up a photo or schematic. Difficult to tell as grip has lost its 'cover'.

 

[popgun pete]

Don, could you explain the third photo in the set as there it looks like the sear housing has a long tube projecting behind it, yet in the fourth photo there is no tube sticking out the back end of this unit. The gun must be the other way up in the fourth photo compared to the third because the sear housing is now inverted. The sear housing is usually positioned down the rear end with a trigger operated pull rod running the full length of the rear barrel back from the centre grip section, but the pull rod looks short in these photos.

 

[Don Paul]

Back after work...
Don

 

[Don Paul]

Thanks Spaniard for the cool site but I couldn't find our mystery gun.
I was too hasty judging the quality of this gun compared to my Nemrods, on closer inspection the bits are very well made and stout, as one can see in the new pictures.
Overall length is 147.32cm
The 13mm piston is has polymer spacers reduce wt and friction.
Sear is heat treated.
Rear tank contains a thin wall tube which inserts into a bore in the mech housing, and is feed pressure through a 5mm square port the but end,
The barrel looks highly polished inside but has been fired a few times.A very small amount of sand was lodged in the snubber spring grease.
Image 2 shows a # 19 ( The searbox has two 0 stamps)
I'll add more description after the ghosts and goblins make the rounds.
Cheers, Don

 

[Don Paul]

last ones.. 1. Knurled barrel nut.
2. Rear tank cap and inner chamber with notch at rear.( this tube press's into the trigger housing bore).
3.Snubber/coil spring, Front barrel net. Top piston is from the gun (note the polymer spacer fore,center and aft of cup seals) White Airbalete piston below for size comparison
4.Searbox and sear.
5. Heat treated steel sear.

Cheers, Don.

 

[Don Paul]

Don, could you explain the third photo in the set as there it looks like the sear housing has a long tube projecting behind it, yet in the fourth photo there is no tube sticking out the back end of this unit. The gun must be the other way up in the fourth photo compared to the third because the sear housing is now inverted. The sear housing is usually positioned down the rear end with a trigger operated pull rod running the full length of the rear barrel back from the centre grip section, but the pull rod looks short in these photos.

Sorry Peter, I didn't have time to include all the pictures. There is a thin walled tube with a square port ( open to tank pressure via this port) the back of which press's into the sear housing and retained by a seal in the tank end cap/fill.

I also checked the piston with the end of a Nemrod 6091/Corsario shaft whose length is ideal but too loose fitting.

Cheers, Don

 

[popgun pete]

Pneumatic spearguns sometimes incorporate a distinctive operating feature that has been patented, so the inventor and the manufacturer can be tracked down if you can locate the particular patent. Often the changes can be very minor and there are also "me too" guns that duplicate other brands without having any claims to being different, so unless there is a "family style" in the shape of their parts they are difficult to assign to a manufacturer, or even a country of origin. The sear housing on this "unknown gun" is interesting as most pneumatic guns of this layout just have a transverse pivot pin through the inner barrel tube near the rear end and a pull rod guide or biasing spring retainer in front of the barrel slots which allow the sear lever to move on the pivot pin. That arrangement allows the spear to be inserted for virtually the full length of the gun, i.e. from muzzle to butt. On early mid-handle pneumatic spearguns the spear just runs to the mid-handle position, there is no spear inside the rear air reservoir or tank section, so the spear is only slightly longer than the front barrel. Those guns don't have long pull rods, or maybe no pull rod at all, unlike the full length loading guns. So what exactly is the load length on this gun (also referred to as the working course of the spear or piston)?

 

[Don Paul]

Peter, the LL=96cm with a 13mm bore. The gun was Big Jim Christiansen's who along with being a Legendary spearfishermen was coach of the USA World Spearfishing team. He may have got the gun in Malta, I wish I took more notes of his story's.
The safety was previously removed as was the norm.
Cheers, Don

 

[popgun pete]

OK, so this gun follows the "spear only in the forward barrel" type, which makes sense as a gun this long overall would make for a mighty long spear otherwise if the inner barrel ran the full length of the gun from muzzle to butt. The rear tank is just a reservoir, that thin wall tube that slots in the rear of the sear housing just provides an aligning function for the rear tank. In a Nemrod gun with this "spear only in the forward barrel" layout the sear and trigger are grouped together in the handle casting, but in this "unknown gun" the handle has been kept simple and the sear has been positioned in its own separate mounting block just behind the grip handle where the trigger is located. In a more modern gun the sear housing would go to the extreme rear, which would allow a shorter gun with the same spear propulsion length as this gun, but with the air reservoir covering a long section of the inner barrel. That is why this gun has a short pull rod, the handle and sear mounting unit are not combined as they would usually be in guns of this type. The empty rear tank extension is done away with in later designs by essentially folding the gun around the inner barrel tube, thereby making the gun a more manageable length as in say a Nemrod "Clipper" or a Russian "Seabear".

 

[Don Paul]

Peter, I have wild theory but no time to test it. The tube fore and aft of the sear box are notched interchangeable spacer tubes changing the handle to muzzle distance depending on placement.This would make the gun more useful when working caves and ledges at close range. There is a removable sheet metal bridge( 4th image) that would need to be swapped for a longer one if this the case. When time permits next week I'll test the idea.
Cheers, Don

 

[popgun pete]

Peter, I have wild theory but no time to test it. The tube fore and aft of the sear box are notched interchangeable spacer tubes changing the handle to muzzle distance depending on placement.This would make the gun more useful when working caves and ledges at close range. There is a removable sheet metal bridge that would need to be swapped for a longer one if this the case. When time permits next week I'll test the idea.
Cheers, Don

While you are examining it there is something else that I am trying to figure out. It looks like the trigger operated pull rod directly blocks the sear lever from moving when the piston tail is being held by the sear tooth. Pulling the trigger moves the pull rod's larger diameter rear end from the step in the front end of the sear lever and the latter is then free to revolve downwards and release the piston. However the pull rod will be moving back once the trigger is released and the sear tooth will be moving back up due to the action of the sear lever's biasing spring, so the mechanism will relatch. The sear lever has to be free to move down so that the piston tail can get past the sear tooth when the gun is reloaded, so something else must move for this to happen.

 

[Don Paul]

I'll make a more complete examination when my young 11yo son can help me catch the flying springs. I was in a hurry to get it back together before the GF complained about the vintage oil smell in the kitchen. I do remember the spacer tubes were 30cm and 15cm.
So the handle could be set app 6'' further forward if needed.
Cheers, Don

 

[popgun pete]

I suspect that the handle scales were removed to avoid seawater sitting in the handle space and gradually leaking out. Sometimes the scales can be a good fit and hold water, but not good enough to keep water out of a submerged gun. Then the water transfers to the boot of your car or the cargo carrying area!