Carlos did his 108 meter free immersion dive, all was okay, only he finished his surface protocol after 21 seconds... grrrrrr :rcard :head Give that man a break after a dive like that!!! Asking him to be okay so soon after surfacing is ridiculous. Famous discussion point of course.
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Unsuccesfull dive Carlos Coste
- Thread starterJorg
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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Hi Jorg,
Any other info ?
Is he trying it tomorrow or after tomorrow ?
You are right. This rule has to change. It is useless dangerous and goes again one of the main freediving rules ( take time to recover properly )
Francisco
www.freedivecentral.com
Any other info ?
Is he trying it tomorrow or after tomorrow ?
You are right. This rule has to change. It is useless dangerous and goes again one of the main freediving rules ( take time to recover properly )
Francisco
www.freedivecentral.com
i think the protocol duration should be extended to 30 seconds or even more, to allow the atlet to regain composure - i mean if one has a samba or blackout that is likely obvious and a valid reason for DQ, otherwise, give enough time for recovery before doing the protocol.
Jorg, any news on the actual time of this amazing dive?
serge
Jorg, any news on the actual time of this amazing dive?
serge
Here a picture of carlos after the dive. He took his time (roughly 4:45 seconds) and looked ok after his resurfacing. But not as fresh as his usual self ;-)
http://www.apnea-amsterdam.com/gallery/ATAUMBI2006/DSC06602
and this after the dive on O2 (no NOT before ;-) )
http://www.apnea-amsterdam.com/gallery/ATAUMBI2006/DSC06594
Bummer for the dumb 15 seconds rule , which for deep dives is just toooooo short. (pool is ok but this is ridiculous).
We hear that he might try again tomorrow, together with the CW no fins dive of Wiliam.
Wee will keep you informed......
http://www.apnea-amsterdam.com/gallery/ATAUMBI2006/DSC06602
and this after the dive on O2 (no NOT before ;-) )
http://www.apnea-amsterdam.com/gallery/ATAUMBI2006/DSC06594
Bummer for the dumb 15 seconds rule , which for deep dives is just toooooo short. (pool is ok but this is ridiculous).
We hear that he might try again tomorrow, together with the CW no fins dive of Wiliam.
Wee will keep you informed......
I've seen the 15 second rule applied in the pool and my impression was that it worked well, as hard as it was to watch someone miss a national record because their SP was 1 second too long. But to be fair that person did have a small samba so the rule did exactly what it was supposed to.
However ocean is different and has different variables, i'm not sure how reasonable the 15 second is because I haven't seen it in action yet. Keep in mind though the rule is there to provide a balance between being objective versus subjective in the grey area of surface protocol. And remember that these rules have to be road tested and if, after this they are deemed not to be appropriate then you can vote to change them.
Still, it's horrible to hear stories of people like this where people seem ok but miss the SP by a few seconds. Bad luck Carlos, nail it next time!
Cheers,
Ben
However ocean is different and has different variables, i'm not sure how reasonable the 15 second is because I haven't seen it in action yet. Keep in mind though the rule is there to provide a balance between being objective versus subjective in the grey area of surface protocol. And remember that these rules have to be road tested and if, after this they are deemed not to be appropriate then you can vote to change them.
Still, it's horrible to hear stories of people like this where people seem ok but miss the SP by a few seconds. Bad luck Carlos, nail it next time!
Cheers,
Ben
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Hi all,
Carlos did 107m in 4'28".... coming up with clear problem and a clear LMC. SP was finnish in 21+ sec. I can just say that the new Surface Protocoll did VERY WELL. The main reason with SP is to avoid performances with LMC to pass as ok dives.
If Martin S can do 108m in CW, and 106 in FIM with the new SP.. this will work for Carlos as well.. with out problem.
Carlos did his 140m in VW in 4'14" and the SP was done in 8,5 sec. Clean and beautiful. Carlos always make his SP inside of 10 sec.. if there is no problem that is.
Carlos will not go for any more attempt, but we have a strong William T going for 81 meter tomorrow(CNF). He did a very nice 78m in training today.
best regards
B
ps. I have a judge course in Dahab the 26-27 of May if there is anyone who is interested... :rcard
Carlos did 107m in 4'28".... coming up with clear problem and a clear LMC. SP was finnish in 21+ sec. I can just say that the new Surface Protocoll did VERY WELL. The main reason with SP is to avoid performances with LMC to pass as ok dives.
If Martin S can do 108m in CW, and 106 in FIM with the new SP.. this will work for Carlos as well.. with out problem.
Carlos did his 140m in VW in 4'14" and the SP was done in 8,5 sec. Clean and beautiful. Carlos always make his SP inside of 10 sec.. if there is no problem that is.
Carlos will not go for any more attempt, but we have a strong William T going for 81 meter tomorrow(CNF). He did a very nice 78m in training today.
best regards
B
ps. I have a judge course in Dahab the 26-27 of May if there is anyone who is interested... :rcard
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jorg,
the rules are there to be followed, and especially to allow people to be judged equally. now it might seem 15 sec is a very short time, and i might agree with that, but on the other hand i've seen some bad samba's getting a white card with the old rule, because people still managed to do the protocol in 20 sec.
if you train to do the protocol in 15 sec you'll be able to do it, if you're dive is clean.
i was in the water watching carlos today, and he looked extremely tired, and even though i didn't see any evident shake it was clear that he didn't have a easy time recovering. this dive wouldn't have passed even the old rule with the 20 sec, and not event the older one about the samba rule. i definitely have a lot of respect for carlos, he's an amazing diver, but would it be fair saying "yeah, let's give him a white card because he's a nice guy"?
in any case he accepted the red card with serenity and didn't protest.
cheers
linda
the rules are there to be followed, and especially to allow people to be judged equally. now it might seem 15 sec is a very short time, and i might agree with that, but on the other hand i've seen some bad samba's getting a white card with the old rule, because people still managed to do the protocol in 20 sec.
if you train to do the protocol in 15 sec you'll be able to do it, if you're dive is clean.
i was in the water watching carlos today, and he looked extremely tired, and even though i didn't see any evident shake it was clear that he didn't have a easy time recovering. this dive wouldn't have passed even the old rule with the 20 sec, and not event the older one about the samba rule. i definitely have a lot of respect for carlos, he's an amazing diver, but would it be fair saying "yeah, let's give him a white card because he's a nice guy"?
in any case he accepted the red card with serenity and didn't protest.
cheers
linda
Billextreme said:
I couldn't agree more.
Sure it is bad luck, and I am sad for Carlos Coste, but there should be no exceptions to the rule; this is not "screwing around in the sea", but a World Record Attempt. How do you think Martin Stepanek would react if he had lost his record to Carlos Coste because a judge had given "the bloke a break"?
Mike
"Giving the bloke a brake" would certainly not be the right thing to do. I have to also admit that Linda had some really strong arguments as well, if one trains to complete the protocol in 15sec it should be all fine, unless a samba's in place, or worse. I guess, i should get that judge course in Dahab 
.
Plan to go down there in July anyway for one of Lotta (and Linda)s courses.
cant wait!
serge
.Plan to go down there in July anyway for one of Lotta (and Linda)s courses.
cant wait!
serge
Well I agree partially. Pool disciplines you have certain stable factors. So 15 seconds okay no problem. But outside in the open sea, with boats, waves, current and everything it's sometimes extremly difficult to finish your performance correctly. I was a judge at last years worldchampionship. I must say that a lot of people almost were disqualified because they got a samba from doing their surface protocol so fast instead of breathing after you made a deep dive. Because the only thing they were worried about was doing this surface protocol instead of taking care of themselves and THEN taking care of the judges.
By the way, I think that AIDA made a real good progress with the new rules , but you shouldn't condider pool work the same as depth work, it's totally different. Even static and dynamic recovery is so much different. Even further when someone does 200 meters in 2 min or does it in 4 min, it's totally different.
And then we get the people factor; I have some friends who run marathons. Last year two of them did a big marathon here in Eindhoven. One guy did a personal best and he was fresh as ever, and the other guy ran 20 minutes below his personal best and he was totally beaten.
Some people just recover faster and easier then other people, but that doens't say they were closer to lmc then the other guy.
I'm already glad that we don't have subjective judging anymore... Just so strange that some countries still use it anyway.
By the way, I think that AIDA made a real good progress with the new rules , but you shouldn't condider pool work the same as depth work, it's totally different. Even static and dynamic recovery is so much different. Even further when someone does 200 meters in 2 min or does it in 4 min, it's totally different.
And then we get the people factor; I have some friends who run marathons. Last year two of them did a big marathon here in Eindhoven. One guy did a personal best and he was fresh as ever, and the other guy ran 20 minutes below his personal best and he was totally beaten.
Some people just recover faster and easier then other people, but that doens't say they were closer to lmc then the other guy.
I'm already glad that we don't have subjective judging anymore... Just so strange that some countries still use it anyway.
Well... 200 meters by peter pedersen in 2:01 if I remember correctly and 200 meters by Tom Sietas in 3:45 or so? I rest my case... hehe
But currents are always a big factor. I remember Umberto's 150 meter no limits dive and that the actual record dive took 25 seconds more then in training because of huge currents.
But currents are always a big factor. I remember Umberto's 150 meter no limits dive and that the actual record dive took 25 seconds more then in training because of huge currents.
