• Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:

    • Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
    • Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
    • Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
    • Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
    • All this and much more...

    You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!

Vacuum barrels: a cautionary tale

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
5,513
1,636
403
Here is a cautionary tale concerning playing around with pneumatic spearguns. I was experimenting with my "Cyrano 55" to see if one could make a "quick and dirty" vacuum barrel set-up. I wrapped the muzzle ports area with 3 cm wide "Cling Tape"; it is highly adhesive, has a cloth reinforcement with a soft vinyl coating and is often referred to as bookbinding tape (for repairing hardcover books with cracked spines). Two turns of the tape around the muzzle seemed to be enough to cover and seal off the relief ports. I placed a 6 mm inner diameter "O" ring on the shaft (I did not bother to check the ring's cross section) and then pushed it right down to the shaft tail stop diameter with the "Cyrano" stop ring and line slide sitting in front of it. Then I put the gun on my thigh, filled the muzzle to the brim with water from a cup to provide some lubrication and loaded the gun.

I then unscrewed the speartip and put the cocked gun with muzzle down into a full bucket of water to see if it would suck up any additional water, indicating that I had achieved a vacuum in the inner barrel, even if it was only a temporary one. Nothing seemed to be happening, so I removed the gun from the bucket, placed the threaded end of the spear on a big block of wood and pulled the trigger while leaning on the rear handle with my full weight. Just to take extra precautions I had the gun on the "low power" setting. The spear pushed the gun up as expected, but to my disappointment no water seemed to have been sucked up into the muzzle or the inner barrel. I then switched the gun to "full power" and sat the butt end in the bucket of water so that the gun was pointing slightly upwards at a nearby wall.

It usually takes some wiggling to get the jammed spear tail out of the socket in the piston face, so I turned around to find my sliding hammer device when I heard a loud bang followed by the clang of the spear landing back near the bucket after ricocheting off the wall. This was a very big surprise to me until I figured out exactly what had happened!

The gun had developed an inner barrel vacuum initially, but it had then sucked the "O" ring through the muzzle diameter restriction and the bore of the shock absorber anvil sitting directly behind it. What I did not realize was that when I control fired the gun against the block of wood the spear had only emerged as far as the shaft tail stop diameter encountering the rear face of the shock absorber anvil and the "O" ring abutting the radial step on the shaft was stopping it coming right through. I calculate that it had another 2.4 cm of travel left. Switching the gun to "full power" added that bit more air pressure and the "O" ring not long after busted in two allowing the shaft to complete its exit from the gun when I had no control over it.

I should have used a fatter cross section "O" ring, it was just one out of a box of spare rings that I had. If I had removed the tape around the muzzle earlier then I would have seen the shaft body through the relief ports instead of the white nylon of the piston body and would have realized exactly what had happened, but I had been distracted by the "O" ring failing to emerge from the muzzle. Unknown to me it was actually waiting to complete its new job as delayed action trigger! Even with all my experience it nearly caught me out, so watch out when parts seem to disappear for no apparent reason, that shaft could have taken an eye out if pointed in the wrong direction.
 
  • Like
Reactions: abusingelves
Glade your OK Peter, I have sinned a few times as well. We who are experienced, risk being wounded by complacently. Scary stuff indeed.

Cheers, Don
 
Just another close miss story - we all have them!

Just recently I have found the most effective way to gain a dry barrel is to buy & beautifully made precision adaptor from Tromic LOL

Glad you are all right mate.
 
Glad you are OK, Peter!

Thanks, but this was some years ago, that is what made me realize that the "O" ring could jump the step on the shaft tail without damaging the "O" ring, only there was no way the "O" ring would stay put on the shaft tail.
 
Thanks for the heads-up Pete, glad no one was hurt.
I tried the quick and dirty method on my Cyranos too.
But no matter what diameter o-ring or how many, I couldn't get the vacuum to last more than a couple of minutes, so gave the whole thing up.
 
Thanks for the heads-up Pete, glad no one was hurt.
I tried the quick and dirty method on my Cyranos too.
But no matter what diameter o-ring or how many, I couldn't get the vacuum to last more than a couple of minutes, so gave the whole thing up.

Devondave, maybe you were very close to the solution. Had you sealed all this red arrow ports?

 
Thanks for the heads-up Pete, glad no one was hurt.
I tried the quick and dirty method on my Cyranos too.
But no matter what diameter o-ring or how many, I couldn't get the vacuum to last more than a couple of minutes, so gave the whole thing up.

Well the answer was to reverse the positions of the stop ring and the "O" ring on the shaft, which I never thought to do, plus the stop ring then had to be smaller in OD than the "O" ring so that the latter sealed both the muzzle and the shaft gaps with its inner and outer edges. Tromic solved the problem with his new muzzle insert and matching stop ring with the conical outer profile. He is right about the other pathways that have to be sealed off as well, my next vacuum barrel effort was with a "Sten" muzzle that was one-piece and had no removable nose section, so that eliminated the screw thread there. Air or water can seep in along the various screw threads just as oil can seep out under pressure going the other way on the inner barrel to muzzle thread if there is a problem with the inner nose cone "O" ring seal, oil appearing on the outside of the muzzle where it emerges from the nose cone. I never repeated my experiment with the "Cyrano" as once was enough! Possibly the shaft had stuck slightly further back in the gun as it must have flown out with some force when the broken "O" ring let it go, the distance to the wall was about one metre. Interestingly the gun never moved in the bucket, nor did the bucket tip over.

The cardinal rule I broke was never load a speargun on land and then put it down unattended. I should have depressurized it first, but was too impatient to try out my vacuum barrel idea after first reading about the then new "Mamba" spearguns.
 
DeeperBlue.com - The Worlds Largest Community Dedicated To Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing

ABOUT US

ISSN 1469-865X | Copyright © 1996 - 2024 deeperblue.net limited.

DeeperBlue.com is the World's Largest Community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving, Ocean Advocacy and Diving Travel.

We've been dedicated to bringing you the freshest news, features and discussions from around the underwater world since 1996.

ADVERT