Very Intense contractions in DNY

[Argyris]

Hi everyone
I really need your help on this.
At this point I do dynamics (with bifins) around 80-90 meters. I can do it repetitively so I guess its not my actual pb and I also don’t feel tired when coming up.
My problem is contractions. They become so intense that i loose air and force to come up. Contractions always start around 40 meters. Before a dive I don’t warm-up and also I don’t do any special breathing.
It takes me around 1min and 35 sec for a 90 meters dive.
Any ideas on this?

 

[chrismar]

40m seems like a reasonable place for your contractions to start - it's similar to when mine begin too. They're also strongest between 80-110m or so for me too. After that they get progressively easier to ignore.

Try swimming much slower and not worrying about distance, just relaxation. Your speed is quick-ish for bifins in the pool, indicating you might be tense. The tension might be why they become problematic.

 

[Mullins]

Sure you can't just clamp your throat down tighter to stop air coming out?

Wearing a suit makes contractions a bit less severe. On the whole though, they're just something you have to get used to. Mine start at around 60m and get pretty heavy between 100m-125m before subsiding, which is similar to what Chris experiences. So it's not necessarily a bad thing performance-wise. You could hyperventilate more in order to delay them, but that'd be totally counterproductive.

 

[chrismar]

In other words, Dave recommends:

 

[Simos]

Hi Argyri, fellow Cypriot here do you also get contractions of the same intensity during static? Can you hold air in when they happen during static?

I guess the consensus is that they will happen anyway so you are better off working on getting used to them and relaxing through them rather than trying to artificially delay them.

Going a bit slower might help. Do you lose air through the nose or the mouth? If through the nose and assuming you are using a mask, try training with a noseclip for a few weeks - I used to have a bad habit of releasing air through the nose when the hold was getting tough.

Also does the releasing of air coincide with each fin stroke? ie do you release a bit of air each time you fin or is it with each contraction?
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Swider]

at chrismar:
What would be the proper time for a 25m length pool in bi-fins? Including turning,
so for egzample what is not too fast for a 75m? I know it's deviating the topic, but I wandered that recently.
at Argyris: for me training of static apnea helped a lot to keep up contractions while doing dynamic. cannot help more

 

[Argyris]

Thanks a lot for you responses
I guess its something i need to get used to it

at chrismar: i used to swim faster but contractions were much more intense so i swim slower now. i will try swimming even slower to see if there is a difference
What do you think is a good time for a 80-90 meters dive??

at Mullins: i do clamp my throat down but when the contractions become too intense i think i loose concentration and let the air go. i will try be more concentrated.

at simos: nice finding more Cypriots here.
In static contractions were not so intense. (i don't practise statics now since i want to concentrate on DYN and DNF)
I loose air through mouth with contractions not when finning.

at Swider: i quit training statics few months ago but i remember that i got used to contractions at some point and didn't loose air

Do you think that a more flexible diaphragm and chest will make them more tolerable?

 

[aris ioannidis]

Gia sou Argyri!

Your contractions do not start early. Mine start around 50m and as Mullins and chrismar point out they pick at around 50-60% of my max before becoming more bearable at the last part of my dynamic (possibly due to lower oxygen level).

It helps to have a 1mm suit, a neckweight, goggles and a noseclip. Streching before surely helps. About your problem of losing air, i am not sure - think the noseclip will help sealing the nose and then u should practice keeping the mouth shut and holding the air down.

I also focus on DNF and DYN but think that practicing STA helps to build resistance to contractions.

I know that several world class athletes suggest max dives with no warm up but for me i find it much easier to get good distance following a couple of warm up dives.

Finally, I think you should try a monofin. It most likely help you to increase your distance.

 

[osusim]

My problem is contractions. They become so intense that i loose air and force to come up.

This is not constructions problem. Loosing air means you are in trouble, close to BO and you body cannot handle self any more. Come up in such situation is the best solution.
To ease your constructions you can train for denial phase - instead of constructions do some small diaphragm movement, swallow a little air from your mouth etc. Just focus on it and allow the real first construction come only at turn of 50m. It's hard at the begin but after several no warm-ups you will do it automatically.

 

[titan]

I have the same problem lately I have strong contractions bt I mean pretty strong nothing like heartberats X: , I would like efficient ways do deal with these in the long term

Ousim your idea sounds great could you give more details please thanks

 

[Argyris]

Gia sou Ari
i train with a 1mm suit (orca equip lite), i use a neckweight (around 2,6 kg) and my mask (micromask).
And i also have a monofin (hyperfin) but at this point my technique is very bad and im working on improving it. I do about the same distance with the mono as with bifins.
I like using the bifins since i spear-fish as well and feel more comfortable in them. I want to see how far i can go with the fins.

Osusim i know that is dangerous to lose air and this is one of the reasons i come up after the intense contractions.Thanks for the tip with the mouth.

 

[mattbigblue]

@Mullins

Are You doing any purges or any deeper breaths when preparing for max dive??
I wonder, if You do all the time tidal breathing, even before final breath, or You go down to residual volume before last one??

I'm confused, because myself I do tidal breathing all the time, and a little deeper breath but not down to RV before final one, then pack to maximum and go.. Contractions start after 60m and are strongest between 90-130.

Lately, I have seen few top athletes doing purges, to clear CO2 from lungs, and take more O2. They say it's not hyperventilation, and they are doing really good results. I don't understand, it's people like Stepanek, or Sebastian, or Cetler (8:42 STA crystal clear).

By purges I mean, slow inhale, and quick exhale, like contraction of a diaphragm.

 

[osusim]

I do no warm-up, no suit, no preparation (just 3-4 deep inhales after arriving to a swimming pool) for 100m in bi-fins in about 1:35.
My constructions starts in static or dynamic then I swallow all air from my mouth. With preparation and suit it happens in dynamic somewhere after 60m.

 

[Mullins]

Mattbigblue - it's hyperventilation (the definition is pretty clear) but it can be useful for various reasons. Some people seem less affected by it; some dive strategies are better suited to it; some people have plenty in reserve and prefer to sacrifice a bit of potential time for more comfort. I certainly do in Static - my PB was set with heavy hyperventilation because I get huge contractions. Also, the sweet spot in the O2:CO2 ratio for most people seems to be reached slightly above tidal breating. I stick pretty close to tidal, though it depends what discipline I'm doing.

 

[chrismar]

at chrismar:
What would be the proper time for a 25m length pool in bi-fins? Including turning,
so for egzample what is not too fast for a 75m? I know it's deviating the topic, but I wandered that recently.
at Argyris: for me training of static apnea helped a lot to keep up contractions while doing dynamic. cannot help more

For bifins dives, I would aim at 30 seconds per 25m personally. With a monofin, I start at 1m/s and speed up a little after a few lengths. Then again, I was timing Guy last night at training and he was doing 30s per 25m in a monofin, while divers like Sessa would be about half that. It's a personal thing, but I generally recommend slower before faster.

Matt - What you're doing is working pretty well! You might want to experiment a bit with your final breaths, but you really have to go to the edge to see what effect it has unfortunately. Dave is right though; anything that exchanges air in your lungs more quickly than tidal breathing is by definition hyperventilation. After that, we're talking levels. Speaking of, Dave's definition of heavy hyperventilation is, um, less than many other people's.

 

[cdavis]

Very insightful discussion of hyperventilation, thank you all.

Connor

 

[Kars]

Also keep in mind your head position. Looking down or even a bit backward it's easier to relax and hold the air in your throat.

What you can do to train this is when contractions appear to start swimming really slow and focus on discovering what's happening. As you are doing this you can feel around to see if you can adjust and improve things by adjusting things like head position, conscious diaphragm relaxation, exhaling a little bit against a your closed up mouth.

Experimenting with FRC dives can also teach you a lot.

Dive safe,

Kars

 

[Goran Colak]

Dave,
when you are doing tidal breathing before you start your dive, are you concentrate to do it from specific part of the lungs (upper part, lower part by diaphragm) or you just breath normally, like you will do while lets say watching TV?

 

[Argyris]

Thanks Kars

 

[Mullins]

Dave,
when you are doing tidal breathing before you start your dive, are you concentrate to do it from specific part of the lungs (upper part, lower part by diaphragm) or you just breath normally, like you will do while lets say watching TV?

I just breathe normally Goran, no special technique