Wall Street Journal: We're the apes who set to sea
Matt Ridley's Mind & Matter: We're the Apes Who Set to Sea - WSJ.com
Matt Ridley's Mind & Matter: We're the Apes Who Set to Sea - WSJ.com
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Wall Street Journal: We are Sea Apes
- Thread starterwet
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
A variation on an old theory (The Aquatic Ape), which while poo-pooed by mainline paleo-anthropologists on the lack of archeological evidence, is very hard to disprove from a genetic, physiological and behavioral standpoint. Personally I like it!
I myself still find these theories stretched at best.
Comments such as the skeleton in his ocean view cave, then the one about a 200ft DEPTH difference in the ocean (which could in parts equate to MILES AND MILES of longitudinal difference) contradict each other. It'd be like a back country developer selling his land with "ocean-views", where the truth is "Ocean-views with a perfect day, a set of binoculars, and only actually 1mm of it at best."
The fact there IS no evidence to accept it doesn't discount these theories etc, no, BUT the fact there IS so much evidence towards the "main-stream" theories does go the distance in discounting it.
Also, if we WERE ever purely aquatic, then why the fat loss, and hair loss. Mammals either gain one or the other in aquatic environments, almost without exclusion.
But I digress into the other theory also.
Did they use boats, probably, but this was never denied, it's just somebody is writing it in a different and somewhat less believable fashion. Indian's followed their rivers, Ganges, Brahmaputra etc on a seasonal basis. Did they do this for reasons beyond food and comfort, no. So why the massed theories that because they lived mainly coastal that they must have had an international shipping terminal too?
Indeed our Australian aboriginals were almost exclusively coastal when in lands of forest and rainforest etc.
Comments such as the skeleton in his ocean view cave, then the one about a 200ft DEPTH difference in the ocean (which could in parts equate to MILES AND MILES of longitudinal difference) contradict each other. It'd be like a back country developer selling his land with "ocean-views", where the truth is "Ocean-views with a perfect day, a set of binoculars, and only actually 1mm of it at best."
The fact there IS no evidence to accept it doesn't discount these theories etc, no, BUT the fact there IS so much evidence towards the "main-stream" theories does go the distance in discounting it.
Also, if we WERE ever purely aquatic, then why the fat loss, and hair loss. Mammals either gain one or the other in aquatic environments, almost without exclusion.
But I digress into the other theory also.
Did they use boats, probably, but this was never denied, it's just somebody is writing it in a different and somewhat less believable fashion. Indian's followed their rivers, Ganges, Brahmaputra etc on a seasonal basis. Did they do this for reasons beyond food and comfort, no. So why the massed theories that because they lived mainly coastal that they must have had an international shipping terminal too?
Indeed our Australian aboriginals were almost exclusively coastal when in lands of forest and rainforest etc.
2,000,000 years ago
DR Braun 2010 PNAS 107:10002-7
Early hominin diet included diverse terrestrial and aquatic animals 1.95
Ma in East Turkana, Kenya
... Here we report an in situ archaeological assemblage from the Koobi
Fora Formation that provides a unique combination of faunal remains, some
with direct evidence of butchery, and Oldowan artifacts, which are well
dated to 1.95 Ma.
This site provides the oldest in situ evidence that hominins predating
H.erectus enjoyed access to carcasses of terrestrial & aquatic animals
that they butchered in a well-watered habitat.
It also provides the earliest definitive evidence of the incorporation
into the hominin diet of various aquatic animals including turtles,
crocodiles & fish, which are rich sources of specific nutrients needed in
human brain growth.
The evidence here shows that these critical brain-growth compounds were
part of the diets of hominins before the appearance of H.ergaster/erectus
and could have played an important role in the evolution of larger brains
in the early history of our lineage.
-
Multidisciplinary Approaches to the Study of Site Function and Settlement
Dynamics in Prehistory
Finding the message in intricacy: The association of lithics and fauna on
Lower Paleolithic Multiple Carcass Sites
Michael Chazan 2006 J.anthrop.Archaeol.25:436-447 doi
10.1016/j.jaa.2006.03.005
This paper examines alternative models for the interpretation of Lower
Paleolithic Multiple Carcass Sites based on analysis of the site of Holon,
Israel.
The nature of the lithic & faunal assemblages found at Holon are most
consistent with a palimpsest site that represents repeated occupations of a
marsh edge location by both hominids & carnivores, the remains of which have
been moderated by natural agencies.
It is argued that ambush hunting by hominids was likely to have been one of
the activities involved in the accumulation of lithic & faunal remains on
the site.
A comparison of the lithic assemblage found at Holon with the lithic
assemblages from Lower Paleolithic Single Carcass Sites suggest differences
between the activities that took place on these sites & the type of
activities that took place at Holon.
DR Braun 2010 PNAS 107:10002-7
Early hominin diet included diverse terrestrial and aquatic animals 1.95
Ma in East Turkana, Kenya
... Here we report an in situ archaeological assemblage from the Koobi
Fora Formation that provides a unique combination of faunal remains, some
with direct evidence of butchery, and Oldowan artifacts, which are well
dated to 1.95 Ma.
This site provides the oldest in situ evidence that hominins predating
H.erectus enjoyed access to carcasses of terrestrial & aquatic animals
that they butchered in a well-watered habitat.
It also provides the earliest definitive evidence of the incorporation
into the hominin diet of various aquatic animals including turtles,
crocodiles & fish, which are rich sources of specific nutrients needed in
human brain growth.
The evidence here shows that these critical brain-growth compounds were
part of the diets of hominins before the appearance of H.ergaster/erectus
and could have played an important role in the evolution of larger brains
in the early history of our lineage.
-
Multidisciplinary Approaches to the Study of Site Function and Settlement
Dynamics in Prehistory
Finding the message in intricacy: The association of lithics and fauna on
Lower Paleolithic Multiple Carcass Sites
Michael Chazan 2006 J.anthrop.Archaeol.25:436-447 doi
10.1016/j.jaa.2006.03.005
This paper examines alternative models for the interpretation of Lower
Paleolithic Multiple Carcass Sites based on analysis of the site of Holon,
Israel.
The nature of the lithic & faunal assemblages found at Holon are most
consistent with a palimpsest site that represents repeated occupations of a
marsh edge location by both hominids & carnivores, the remains of which have
been moderated by natural agencies.
It is argued that ambush hunting by hominids was likely to have been one of
the activities involved in the accumulation of lithic & faunal remains on
the site.
A comparison of the lithic assemblage found at Holon with the lithic
assemblages from Lower Paleolithic Single Carcass Sites suggest differences
between the activities that took place on these sites & the type of
activities that took place at Holon.
Last edited:
Sea Food is the richest source of Taurine.
Production Sources of Taurine | eHow.com
Humans and most animals are able to synthesize their own taurine from the foods
they eat. It is either taken in directly from meat and seafood, or synthesized
from other amino acids.
Meat
Taurine is found in most meat, but is especially prevalent in liver and hearts.
[Thus difficult to get on savannah from carcasses left by big cat predators which feast on soft organs but not hard bone /dd]
A diet containing a healthy amount of meat will give most people and animals all
the taurine they need.
Seafood
Scallops, shrimp, clams and other shellfish are particularly high in taurine.
The levels of taurine in these seafoods are even higher than those found in
meat.
From the PDR
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/n...tau_0246.shtml
Taurine
DESCRIPTION
Taurine is a nonprotein amino acid. It is an end product of L-cysteine
metabolism and the principal free intracellular amino acid in many tissues of
humans and other animal species. Taurine is present in high amounts in the
brain, retina, myocardium, skeletal and smooth muscle, platelets and
neutrophils. It is classified as a conditionally essential amino acid because it
is necessary to be supplied in the diet of infants for normal retinal and brain
development.
Research of taurine was greatly stimulated by the finding that it is an
essential nutrient for cats. Taurine deficiency in cats can result in a variety
of clinical abnormalities, including central retinal degeneration, dilated
cardiomyopathy and platelet function abnormalities. Shortly after the discovery
that dietary taurine deficiency leads to retinal degeneration in cats, it was
observed that infants who were fed formulas lacking taurine had lower plasma
levels of this amino acid than did infants fed human milk. Further, it was
discovered that children receiving total parenteral nutrition not containing
taurine had abnormal electroretinograms, as well as low plasma taurine levels.
Taurine has been added to most human infant formulas since the mid-1980s.
Taurine is produced in the body from L-cysteine. The first reaction in the
pathway is the formation of cysteine sulfinic acid. Cysteine sulfinic acid (CSA)
is converted to hypotaurine via the enzyme CSA-decarboxylase, and taurine is
formed from hypotaurine. Cats have low activity of CSA-decarboxylase. Dietary
taurine mainly comes from animal food. Taurine is present in very low levels in
plant foods. Taurine is found in seaweeds.
Production Sources of Taurine | eHow.com
Humans and most animals are able to synthesize their own taurine from the foods
they eat. It is either taken in directly from meat and seafood, or synthesized
from other amino acids.
Meat
Taurine is found in most meat, but is especially prevalent in liver and hearts.
[Thus difficult to get on savannah from carcasses left by big cat predators which feast on soft organs but not hard bone /dd]
A diet containing a healthy amount of meat will give most people and animals all
the taurine they need.
Seafood
Scallops, shrimp, clams and other shellfish are particularly high in taurine.
The levels of taurine in these seafoods are even higher than those found in
meat.
From the PDR
http://www.pdrhealth.com/drug_info/n...tau_0246.shtml
Taurine
DESCRIPTION
Taurine is a nonprotein amino acid. It is an end product of L-cysteine
metabolism and the principal free intracellular amino acid in many tissues of
humans and other animal species. Taurine is present in high amounts in the
brain, retina, myocardium, skeletal and smooth muscle, platelets and
neutrophils. It is classified as a conditionally essential amino acid because it
is necessary to be supplied in the diet of infants for normal retinal and brain
development.
Research of taurine was greatly stimulated by the finding that it is an
essential nutrient for cats. Taurine deficiency in cats can result in a variety
of clinical abnormalities, including central retinal degeneration, dilated
cardiomyopathy and platelet function abnormalities. Shortly after the discovery
that dietary taurine deficiency leads to retinal degeneration in cats, it was
observed that infants who were fed formulas lacking taurine had lower plasma
levels of this amino acid than did infants fed human milk. Further, it was
discovered that children receiving total parenteral nutrition not containing
taurine had abnormal electroretinograms, as well as low plasma taurine levels.
Taurine has been added to most human infant formulas since the mid-1980s.
Taurine is produced in the body from L-cysteine. The first reaction in the
pathway is the formation of cysteine sulfinic acid. Cysteine sulfinic acid (CSA)
is converted to hypotaurine via the enzyme CSA-decarboxylase, and taurine is
formed from hypotaurine. Cats have low activity of CSA-decarboxylase. Dietary
taurine mainly comes from animal food. Taurine is present in very low levels in
plant foods. Taurine is found in seaweeds.
Water-side ambush paleolithic hunting, Israel
Finding the message in intricacy:
The association of lithics and fauna on Lower Paleolithic Multiple Carcass
Sites
Michael Chazan & Liora Kolska Horwitz 2006
J.anthrop.Archael.doi:10.1016/j.jaa.2006.03.005
This paper examines alternative models for the interpretation of Lower
Paleolithic Multiple Carcass Sites, based on analysis of the site of
Holon, Israel.
The nature of the lithic & faunal assemblages found at Holon are most
consistent with a palimpsest site that represents repeated occupations of
a marsh edge location by both hominids & carnivores, the remains of which
have been moderated by natural agencies.
It is argued that ambush hunting by hominids was likely to have been one
of the activities involved in the accumulation of lithic & faunal remains
on the site.
A comparison of the lithic assemblage found at Holon with the lithic
assemblages from Lower Paleolithic Single Carcass Sites suggest
differences between the activities that took place on these sites & the
type of activities that took place at Holon.
Finding the message in intricacy:
The association of lithics and fauna on Lower Paleolithic Multiple Carcass
Sites
Michael Chazan & Liora Kolska Horwitz 2006
J.anthrop.Archael.doi:10.1016/j.jaa.2006.03.005
This paper examines alternative models for the interpretation of Lower
Paleolithic Multiple Carcass Sites, based on analysis of the site of
Holon, Israel.
The nature of the lithic & faunal assemblages found at Holon are most
consistent with a palimpsest site that represents repeated occupations of
a marsh edge location by both hominids & carnivores, the remains of which
have been moderated by natural agencies.
It is argued that ambush hunting by hominids was likely to have been one
of the activities involved in the accumulation of lithic & faunal remains
on the site.
A comparison of the lithic assemblage found at Holon with the lithic
assemblages from Lower Paleolithic Single Carcass Sites suggest
differences between the activities that took place on these sites & the
type of activities that took place at Holon.
We are Sea Apes...
"Nutcracker Man" was a Puddle Ape
(Nutcracker man, A. boisei, found by Leakey in East Africa, had huge molars, which he assumed were used in eating nuts. Since chimps, gorillas and humans all eat various nuts (especially nutritious mongongo nuts in Central Africa), that seemed a sensible interpretation. But now dental drilling evidence has proven that nutcracker mans' diet was mostly C4 (grassy), not C3 nuts from trees. John Hawks, paleoanthropologist further states, not grass seeds, and likeliest, wetland sedges/rhyzomes were the mainstay.
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I agree! Human ancestors also ate these sedges eg. papyrus, and still do, along with water lilly rhyzomes and lots of seafoods (fish, seaweeds, crustaceans and mollusks) by dunking and diving, and later also by boating/netting/harpooning above the surface.
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"Nutcracker Man" debunked | john hawks weblog
http://johnhawks.net/weblog/fossils/boisei/olduvai/boisei-papyrus-diet-2010.html
A.boisei is almost as low in O-18 composition as hippopotamus, suggesting they were strongly dependent on water sources.
"Nutcracker Man" was a Puddle Ape
(Nutcracker man, A. boisei, found by Leakey in East Africa, had huge molars, which he assumed were used in eating nuts. Since chimps, gorillas and humans all eat various nuts (especially nutritious mongongo nuts in Central Africa), that seemed a sensible interpretation. But now dental drilling evidence has proven that nutcracker mans' diet was mostly C4 (grassy), not C3 nuts from trees. John Hawks, paleoanthropologist further states, not grass seeds, and likeliest, wetland sedges/rhyzomes were the mainstay.
-
I agree! Human ancestors also ate these sedges eg. papyrus, and still do, along with water lilly rhyzomes and lots of seafoods (fish, seaweeds, crustaceans and mollusks) by dunking and diving, and later also by boating/netting/harpooning above the surface.
-
"Nutcracker Man" debunked | john hawks weblog
http://johnhawks.net/weblog/fossils/boisei/olduvai/boisei-papyrus-diet-2010.html
A.boisei is almost as low in O-18 composition as hippopotamus, suggesting they were strongly dependent on water sources.
Last edited:
He also spent a lot of time scrounging off kills of land animals, does that mean he can fly, as vultures do?
We're a diverse creature, one type of behaviour among the myriad of others hardly means we are aquatic apes. it makes me think of some minority culture cross breeds. "I'm a proud such-and-such-a-culture" Where they are only 2%, by all means be proud of it, but why no pride in the other 98% of your make-up?
We're a diverse creature, one type of behaviour among the myriad of others hardly means we are aquatic apes. it makes me think of some minority culture cross breeds. "I'm a proud such-and-such-a-culture" Where they are only 2%, by all means be proud of it, but why no pride in the other 98% of your make-up?
He (nutcracker man) was mostly vegetarian, like mountain gorillas.
Human ancestors were littoral omnivores, foraging various foods in and near open water.
Genetic research confirms that non-Africans are part Neanderthal
Some of the human X chromosome originates from Neanderthals and is found
exclusively in people outside Africa, according to an international team of
researchers led by Damian Labuda of the Department of Pediatrics at the
University of Montreal and the CHU Sainte-Justine Research Center. The research
was published in the July issue of Molecular Biology and Evolution.
"This confirms recent findings suggesting that the two populations interbred,"
says Dr. Labuda. His team places the timing of such intimate contacts and/or
family ties early on, probably at the crossroads of the Middle East.
Neanderthals, whose ancestors left Africa about 400,000 to 800,000 years ago,
evolved in what is now mainly France, Spain, Germany and Russia, and are thought
to have lived until about 30,000 years ago. Meanwhile, early modern humans left
Africa about 80,000 to 50,000 years ago. The question on everyone's mind has
always been whether the physically stronger Neanderthals, who possessed the gene
for language and may have played the flute, were a separate species or could
have interbred with modern humans. The answer is yes, the two lived in close
association.
"In addition, because our methods were totally independent of Neanderthal
material, we can also conclude that previous results were not influenced by
contaminating artifacts," adds Dr. Labuda.
Dr. Labuda and his team almost a decade ago had identified a piece of DNA
(called a haplotype) in the human X chromosome that seemed different and whose
origins they questioned. When the Neanderthal genome was sequenced in 2010, they
quickly compared 6000 chromosomes from all parts of the world to the Neanderthal
haplotype. The Neanderthal sequence was present in peoples across all
continents, except for sub-Saharan Africa, and including Australia.
"There is little doubt that this haplotype is present because of mating with our
ancestors and Neanderthals. This is a very nice result, and further analysis may
help determine more details," says Dr. Nick Patterson, of the Broad Institute of
MIT and Harvard University, a major researcher in human ancestry who was not
involved in this study.
"Dr. Labuda and his colleagues were the first to identify a genetic variation in
non-Africans that was likely to have come from an archaic population. This was
done entirely without the Neanderthal genome sequence, but in light of the
Neanderthal sequence, it is now clear that they were absolutely right!" adds Dr.
David Reich, a Harvard Medical School geneticist, one of the principal
researchers in the Neanderthal genome project.
So, speculates Dr. Labuda, did these exchanges contribute to our success across
the world? "Variability is very important for long-term survival of a species,"
says Dr. Labuda. "Every addition to the genome can be enriching." An interesting
match, indeed.
-
Neandertals seem to have had many aquatic-foraging traits (dense robust bones, big noses, long little fingers, stone tools etc.)
Some of the human X chromosome originates from Neanderthals and is found
exclusively in people outside Africa, according to an international team of
researchers led by Damian Labuda of the Department of Pediatrics at the
University of Montreal and the CHU Sainte-Justine Research Center. The research
was published in the July issue of Molecular Biology and Evolution.
"This confirms recent findings suggesting that the two populations interbred,"
says Dr. Labuda. His team places the timing of such intimate contacts and/or
family ties early on, probably at the crossroads of the Middle East.
Neanderthals, whose ancestors left Africa about 400,000 to 800,000 years ago,
evolved in what is now mainly France, Spain, Germany and Russia, and are thought
to have lived until about 30,000 years ago. Meanwhile, early modern humans left
Africa about 80,000 to 50,000 years ago. The question on everyone's mind has
always been whether the physically stronger Neanderthals, who possessed the gene
for language and may have played the flute, were a separate species or could
have interbred with modern humans. The answer is yes, the two lived in close
association.
"In addition, because our methods were totally independent of Neanderthal
material, we can also conclude that previous results were not influenced by
contaminating artifacts," adds Dr. Labuda.
Dr. Labuda and his team almost a decade ago had identified a piece of DNA
(called a haplotype) in the human X chromosome that seemed different and whose
origins they questioned. When the Neanderthal genome was sequenced in 2010, they
quickly compared 6000 chromosomes from all parts of the world to the Neanderthal
haplotype. The Neanderthal sequence was present in peoples across all
continents, except for sub-Saharan Africa, and including Australia.
"There is little doubt that this haplotype is present because of mating with our
ancestors and Neanderthals. This is a very nice result, and further analysis may
help determine more details," says Dr. Nick Patterson, of the Broad Institute of
MIT and Harvard University, a major researcher in human ancestry who was not
involved in this study.
"Dr. Labuda and his colleagues were the first to identify a genetic variation in
non-Africans that was likely to have come from an archaic population. This was
done entirely without the Neanderthal genome sequence, but in light of the
Neanderthal sequence, it is now clear that they were absolutely right!" adds Dr.
David Reich, a Harvard Medical School geneticist, one of the principal
researchers in the Neanderthal genome project.
So, speculates Dr. Labuda, did these exchanges contribute to our success across
the world? "Variability is very important for long-term survival of a species,"
says Dr. Labuda. "Every addition to the genome can be enriching." An interesting
match, indeed.
-
Neandertals seem to have had many aquatic-foraging traits (dense robust bones, big noses, long little fingers, stone tools etc.)
Wow, so basically this thread is saying that despite the billions and billions of pieces of evidence, such as our modern lives, saying that we are what we are, you're saying we're not, and I am actually a fish that uses tools due to my fat head? But, despite all that I could build and play quite expertly, a piano?
It just seems this thread reminds me of the people who say "Oh, I'm (Insert nationality here)" and they go on about their pride in being that wholly and solely that nationality, when in reality they are only 1% of it, and have ignored the other 99% of their make-up.
It just seems this thread reminds me of the people who say "Oh, I'm (Insert nationality here)" and they go on about their pride in being that wholly and solely that nationality, when in reality they are only 1% of it, and have ignored the other 99% of their make-up.