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Waterway Model 2 Long Distance

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Alun

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2001
763
83
118
having been a good boy throughout 2002, Santa gave me a Model 2 long distance for xmas. my normal fin of choice is the Model 1 long distance, but i once tried the Model2 version this summer and liked it. since then, i always fancied buying one to test it properly against the Model 1.
the results are good! I can definitely say, it is better than the Model 1 -for me that is. it may not suit everyone as well. i had suspected that this fin would better suit my frame- i'm about 1.87m and only 70kg. i'm not powerfully built, and so the softer fin works better for me.
i thought i'd mention this in case anyone is in the market for a freediving fin.

alun
 

SThompson

Nekton Pelagic
Apr 15, 2002
68
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Santa is bringing be a Waterway Model 1 Long distance in about a week (thanks Peter!). I am really curious to hear your comparison Alun. I am about the same size as you are, only 2 inches shorter (5cm in metric).

I went with the WW model 1 long distance since I knew it was a bit stiffer than the model 2. I normally prefer a stiff fin, I use a Cressi Gara HF in bi-fins and have been very happy with those. My main concern is being able to kick up from the bottom of a dive - I was afraid the model 2 might be too soft. What was it about the model 2 you used this summer that made you as santa for one?
 

Alun

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2001
763
83
118
i still think the Model 1 is a very good monofin - great for freediving. i think a couple of records have been set with it, such as the current AIDA CW record of -90m by Carlos Coste. so that goes to prove that it is very good.
i don't believe there is a one-size-fits-all perfect monofin that suits every single freediver. instead i think you have a range of variables to play with such as stiffness, dimension and weight etc. you can narrow down the range of possible monofins to ones that are suitable for deep freediving, and then beyond that i think you just have to choose the one that feels the best for you and your technique. your ideal choice of monofin wont necessaily remain the same - because your technique is always changing (improving!) and chances are you're diving ever deeper. in the end, there has to be some experimentation. the Model 2 LD is my 4th monofin
they are:
1. Waterway Model 2 Middle distance (crap - too stiff)
2. AkwaSport Cooda 8 (from NZ) (ok, but slightly too stiff, didnt feel great)
3. Waterway Model 1 Long distance (good fin)
4. Waterway Model 2 Long distance (better than the Model 1)
that's the order in which i bought them, and each was better than the last. i have since sold the first 2 in the list, and may eventually sell the Model 1 LD.
since buying that first monofin, i've made countless dives and chopped and changed with weighting and technique, and am now quite well settled with things, and doubt that i'll find a monofin that is much better, but you never know!

no, i dont think the Model 2 LD is too soft. i chose it because it's softer than the Model 1. to me, it seems i can generate the same propulsive force with less effort - that's how it seems anyway. also, i think it suits my technique better - arms by my side the whole time with little bend in the knee. i've heard of one variation which is apparently similar to eel motion. from the sounds of it, this is pretty much what i do.
before wondering whether a fin is too soft at depth (or at the start of the dive), ask yourself whether you're getting the best out of the fin in terms of technique first.

alun
 

efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
487
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Coste's Fin

According to an interview with Carlos Coste on a Spanish site, he used the Waterway LD2 monofin. I think that Patrick Musimu used the LD1 for his 87m record.


Eric Fattah
BC, Canada
 

Alun

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2001
763
83
118
ah, thanks for the correction.
well, there you go then... that goes to show that the Model 2 may be generally more suitable for deep freediving than the Model 1.

alun
 

SThompson

Nekton Pelagic
Apr 15, 2002
68
9
0
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That Carlos Coste website shows pics of Carlos using a model 2 judging from the footpockets for his record CW dive. Interestingly enough though, if you look at the "poster" and some of the other fun pics I think he is using a Gul mono. I can't tell for sure though, perhaps someone could correctly identify it?

If technique makes all the difference in the world, what is the correct technique that I should be aiming to emulate? There are several finswimming guides on the net, but are they directly applicable to freedivers as well? I would guess that swimming at depth with a mono would be different from the surface swimming that most competitive finswimmers do.......but as I have never seriously swum with a mono I could use some advice. Here are some examples that I pulled.

A slightly technical document that touches on underwater swimming in general. Good stuff here.Underwater Undulatory Swimming

Here is the basic finswimming teaching pic that everyone has seen.
monotech.gif


And here is the moving version.
nageurcouleur.gif


Is this the correct movement for a freediver? Just looking at it, it seems a little "flat". Or rather, that a diver at depth could attempt a more rounded motion, more like a sine wave. The closest example that I could find was on a french website that was illustrating the bubble patterns in the wake of swimmers using the breast stroke (well.....I think that's what it was. My french is a bit rusty :) )
HK3thumb.JPG


Please bear with me, this is all still very theoretical in my case. I am, however, getting VERY excited about my mono getting here in a few more days!!! :eek:

Websites referenced are as follows;

Finswimmer.com

Finswimming Technique
La Technique de Nage en Monopalme
 

Alun

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2001
763
83
118
i didnt know that they put different footpockets on the Model1 and Model2. mine are identical in every way. i'v never heard of a Gul mono. i've not seen that picture. could it be a Gul sticker (wetsuit manufacturer) on a monofin?
a good place to start with technique is to try getting video footage of world class divers - setting records etc. learn from the best.
i would be cautious about trying to learn anything from finswimming though. the only common factor is that we use monofins, apart from that it's a *totally* different activity. finswimming is all about speed. finswimmers never hold their breath longer than 15-20secs, to cover 50m. they are only interested in maximising speed, not distance per unit O2, as we are. these activites require very different things from the body.
in a way it would be like a 10km runner trying to learn good running form from a sprinter, just because they both wear the same track shoes! :duh

seriously, i do think getting hold of video footage from the net is a good place to start.


alun
 

Erik

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2001
4,731
753
218
Your enthusiasm will take you most of the way too! I agree that there is not much similarity with finswimming racers, but all the info helps. They do know a lot about streamlining, look at Haydn Welch or Marten Stepanek for instance....I think they came from finswimming, correct me if Im wrong.
You will find that youWILL need to bend your knees near the surface as you descend, unless your weighted heavy, in which case youWILL bend your knees at the bottom when youascend.
It took me 2 months in a pool then a week in the ocean before i felt that the mono was an extension of my body....that is how it should feel I think.
I wish Santa had sent me a few monofins for Christmas :(
Cheers,
Erik Y.
 

Ender

New Member
May 17, 2002
32
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slightly off topic, i have 2 waterway longdistance model 2's. i like them very much but am a bit concerned about the bend in the blades of both. they both bend up at the tip(if you were standing vertically with them on) i was told by someone who makes them that they turn out this way accidently in the laminating process but that it isnt a problem as the downstroke(lying face down in the water) if the power stroke and that a bend of the blade in this dirrection will only make downstroke more powerfull and the up/recovery stroke easier. sound logic but only applicable to surface finswimming.
on an ascent with arms by my side i find it impossible to keep my body vertical, my head tending to lean over my feet. i'm guessing this is due to the lack of symetry of power between my forward and back kick. anybody else have this problem? it is fixed buy accending with arms above head but at what cost?
the bend in the fin also causes the blade to fall out of the boddies slip stream by a good few inches even when the toes are extended. the angled footpocket that skate make seems to be poppular, should i be worried that my fins are the "opposite" of these. and what are the chances of getting a third curved blade from waterway if i ordered another? cheers
bevan
 

Ender

New Member
May 17, 2002
32
1
0
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jeez thats wierd, they stuck enders name on my above post. must be that i'm mailing from koa toa myself. sorry ender, i'll log in next time under my own name. happy new year

bevan
 

Alun

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2001
763
83
118
Haydn was originally a long distance swimmer, and only started using the monofin when he started freediving, but i think he's becoming more interested in the finswimming side of things.
everything i said in my last post concerned freediving for depth rather than dynamic. experience of finswimming is probably more useful for dynamic, simply because it's more similar to finswimming ... no wetsuits, horizontal position, similar buoyancy effects etc.
bend in the blades... the Model 2s are all like that from the ones i've seen. the Model 1s have less bend, for some reason. i also used to have a tendency to move into the line when diving, but it was just a problem with my technique which i've since corrected, and it no longer happens. i think that has more to do with your flexibility than the monofin... you can more easily bend forward at the waist than bend back - so you have a tendency to bend forwards more when undulating and this tends to angle you forward.
there are probably much better monofins for freediving waiting to be designed. until they are designed, i dont think you'll do much better than the long distance Waterways.

alun
 

JimGlynn

New Member
Jan 16, 2002
278
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0
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Alun- I have the LD2 also. Did you remove the padding inside the pockets to fit your feet with 3 mil socks or did you buy one with slightly larger foot pockets? I was thinking about removing the inner padding so i could use some socks.
Jim
 

Alun

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2001
763
83
118
my feet are exactly 29cm in length. i'm lucky because this happens to be one of the Waterway footpockets sizes. i always wear 3mm socks regardless of water temperature. it's a very snug fit with the 2mm neoprene layer inside. this fits me perfectly. i can wear it pretty much for as long as i like. having cold feet is the only limiting factor.
acutally i find that if i wear the monofin without socks in the pool, then my feet slip about inside a little. i see this as a small loss of efficiency. but when wearing socks, there is absolutely no movement inside the footpocket - i consider this a good thing. the thin socks fill up any slack spaces and seems to eliminate any slippage.
i dont think i would wear 5mm socks, even if i could get them into the footpocket. having a lot of spongy neoprene in there won't help power transfer. i think the ideal is to have just enough to make it comfortable and make a nice snug fit.
remember you can always separate and reglue the heel straps on the Waterway fins. to give you an idea of how well mine fit: even after pulling the heel strap from behind my heel bone, i still struggle to pull the fin off!
the fit depends on what you want to use it for too i suppose. if you want to dive deep, then it's unlikely you'll need to wear the fin for much longer than one hour. but if you want something to wear for 2-3hours+, then it may be a good idea to go for a larger footpocket or looser fitting.
another tip is to buy socks that are way too small for your feet. it sounds daft but i have found it to be a good idea. my feet are sized UK10/US11, but i wear socks size UK5-6/US6-7!! i find that if you buy socks that are designed to fit your foot size, then you tend to have lots of excess neoprene that crumples up in folds when you try to get your feet into the footpocket. this results in an unnecessarily tight and uncomfortable fit. if your socks are very tight with no loose neoprene then this shouldnt happen. this might help you get 3mm socks in there without readjusting the footpocket or buying a whole new one?.... try it.


alun
 
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