Weight belt, fitness, and a SORE back

[billder99]

(Update: See post for 26 July 08) Went out spearfishing last week. Had'nt been in awhile, and I was in the water for about 3 hours with 14# of weight. My lower back has hurt like HELL for over a week now.

I have read the threads about wearing a vest, and other strategies for moving the weight away from the lower back. What I really need is to get back in shape, and then I'm sure the weight won't bother me so much.

I found this excellent thread on general fitness from a reference by Island Sands (never did see the bikini photo, but the promise of it kept me reading to the end of the thread): http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthr...446#post437446

Erik, outstanding stuff... thanks. You are a stallion to be doing this at 41. I am now 50 and I havn't kept up good habits (though I used to live and train daily with 3 Team-Guys in San Diego... ah for the old days). The no-equipment SEAL workout you posted is exactly the kind of training I need to return to.

I suppose this is more of a "Thanks again you guys" kind of thread... I know pretty much what I need to do. However, I have let things lapse to the point where I need a 9-week workup to get back to "Category 1" fitness (reference link above)

Caution is the keyword; it has become so easy to injure myself these days, which seems always to disrupt my good intentions. My mind remembers, but my body rebels. Any tips anyone might add for a very basic (Category Zero) return to flexibility, strength and cardio-fitness are greatfully welcomed.

 

[spaghetti]

Doyle I can't help in any way about fitness and I'll let the others talk about this: me I don't do any kind of exercise other than spearfishing itself, spend 12 hours a day at the pc desk, eat pork 365 days a year, drink a liter of wine a day and smoke roll-up cigs.
But I say: try a weight jacket. Not only it will relief your back from a portion of lead, but will also give you a more balanced posture underwater. Also try ankle strap weights. They do work.

 

[billder99]

Spaghetti... you're killin' me. Great fitness routine... I suppose it is the same one I have been on more or less (less the ciggies... muy malo). 10/4 on the weight-jacket... I am already hunting for one... any suggestions?

Had a physical the other day. Lab work, lots of poking and prodding. Low levels of "bad" cholesteral, good HDLs, good triglyceride and glucose, strong heart and lungs, etc... pretty healthy, just low energy and weaker than a wet noodle... I hate that.

"Today, I start a new life." Og Mandino

 

[cdavis]

Doyle,

My back is hurting just reading your post.
I can't comment on a vest, but two other things can help a lot. (1) Do you have a rubber weight belt? If not, get one immediately, so that the lead stays on your hips, not your back. The difference between a rubber and nylon belt is amazing. (2) get a custom wetsuit. Number two is a bit pricy, but is well worth it, especially if you dive much. Among lots of other benefits, it will greatly reduce the amt of weight you need. A 3 mil Ellios or similar should be fine for where you are. 4-6 lbs will be plenty unless the water is extremely shallow.

Connor

 

[rslomkow]

Sorry to hear your back is hurting

tips to get better

Toe touches are really good!

Done properly.

1) Stand feet hip width apart
2) imagine a line going from the center of the heel going through the second largest toe, make those lines on each foot parrellel to each other.
3) Raise your arms up above your head breath in and lean backwards
4) exhale and bend forward to touch your toes
5) rest your hands in your elbows (with you head hanging down)
6) relax haning down
7) breath in deep and into your diapram (imagine pushing out the pain in you back with your breath)
8) exhale and relax sinking deeper into the stretch (you should actually sink lower)
9) repeat the breathing and "sinking" 3-5 times
10) stand up and repeate

This should help relax your lower back, and has very little risk.

If you are into Yoga at all try "Sun Salutations"
http://www.yogasite.com/sunsalute.htm

Also considering doing "leg ups" like situps but you like on your back and lift you legs up to verticle.

Most lower back problems are aggrevated by weak stomach muscles.

tips to help in the water

I don't know what kind of weights you have, but more smaller ones are better. I dove in California with 14 lbs in the following configurations.

rubber belt (helps prevents weights from slipping)
2 x 5 lbs one on each side of the front of my hips (just barly on the front and as far forward as possible)
2 x 2 lbs one on each side of the back up the hips (just barly on the back and close to the side

Other options to spread the weight.

get an old bicycle tube, and some fastek buckles, and lead shot (or just rocks)

fill the tube with ballast, then push the ends through the buckles.
clamp to you feet as ankle bracelets, try a necklace (no too heavy or it strains your neck), or something larger that you can use in a figure 8 around you shoulders.

avoid surface swimming

I know this is tough, but traditional surface swimming is hard on you and places more tension on your back. If you have long fins, you do many fewer kicks and the lead "bounces" less on your back.

Also under water swimming is more efficient even without fins, and the weight from your belt is less localized.

also be carefull of the weights when not in the water. This time is more dangerous for your back and you need to take care of how you put them on and take them off. I always re-tighten after I go into the water.

Hope some of this helps!

 

[billder99]

Connor,
Sounds like you have experienced the "Broke Back Blues". I am using a rubber belt, and I agree it is much better than the old nylon. My wetsuit is a 3mil Quintana Roo, actually designed for swimming but perfect for freediving... it is too tight right now, I need to lose 10 or 15 pounds, definitely affects deep breath-up... is this affecting my back?

rslomkow,
Really good tips for easing back to better flexibility. I have been doing a bit of yoga and breath work under instruction of MT Salomons, who many here on DB know (very lucky to have her living in this area). I will add the slow toe touch and deep breaths... just tried it... felt so good I nearly fell asleep.

Thanks also for the low cost ideas on ankle, shoulder weight... will ankle weight affect my finning ability? (I use short fins, so I kick a bit more) Also, I have to admit to doing a bit of surface freestyle swimming, and I can see that the horizontal-stretched position allows the gravity load of the weight belt to work it's most harm on my back... stay upright more. Finally, I will start to take my weight belt off prior to climbing out of the water... after 3 hours of diving last week, I was surprised at how difficult it was with the weights on.

 

[cdavis]

Hi Doyle,

With 14 lb of weight on, at what depth are you neutral? At what depth are you usually diving?

Tight suit affecting back? Might be, hours of the suit pulling the wrong way can do funny things. Still, the weight is a more likely problem.

Connor

Connor

 

[Spaniard]

I have nearly always dived with a 'baudrier' or weight harness, many european suppliers market them. I have been fortunate never to have suffered from back problems and would highly recommend the harness. In shallow dives you can easily add ankle weights which stops your legs arcing back to surface if you are in 'aspetto' mode.

 

[spaghetti]

Yes depth matters, and much, in choosing the correct weight set, as for sure you know by your own experience. But I'm just to speak again about weight jackets: don't use them if you plan to dive any deeper than 10/12 meters maximum, that's dangerous. Because if you find yourself in any trouble you can release a belt in one second with one hand, while dressing off a weight jacket or baudrier as you're blacking out is nearly impossible.
So remember: weight jacket in shallow helps you, in deep water kills you.
Ankle weights? I use 500 grams straps, that is very lightweight, and doesn't affect finning. But that prevents your fins waving as a flag during aspetto hunting technique as Spaniard said.
Which jacket? I have a Parisi 4kg and a Seatec camo 3 kg, they're not available in the Usa. But they're pretty similar to the new 4 kg OMER jacket designed by Marco Bardi. I'd say that's exactly the same as mine. OMER Weight Gilet by M. Mardi
Otherwise you can check this one: made in camo newprene, can store up to 12 kilograms, but I havent' tried personally anything like this:
OMER Weight Gilet
Spaniard, did you quit it with roll-ups yet? ;-)

 

[Spaniard]

OMER Weight Gilet
Spaniard, did you quit it with roll-ups yet? ;-)

Nope and i've discovered licqorice papers which means I probably wont now rofl rofl

 

[spaghetti]

Nope and i've discovered licqorice papers which means I probably wont now rofl rofl

Naaa man just you listen to Spago: switch to strawberry papers immediately! :inlove

 

[billder99]

Flavored roll ups? Sounds like you guys are smokin' whacky tabacky... does that help with "thinking like the fish"?:king

Guys, this is great stuff for those of us with "challenged backs". This thread should be standard reading for divers lacking fitness, and/or with bad backs.

My Specs: 14#(6.5kg) gives neutral at 6-7 meters with 3mil full wetsuit, no booties, BMI says 23-24% body fat. I normally hunt from 30'(9.5m) to 50'(16m). Never considered ankle weights specifically for aspetto... of course!... my legs are always headed to the surface.

Very wise words Spaghetti, "weight jacket in shallow helps you, in deep water kills you." For diving over 8m, I will distribute 50% to belt (quick release), 6% ankles, 44% harness... does that sound about right for reasonable asent safety?

 

[Fondueset]

Back in 98 i read the following - quoted exactly including capitals - after an MRI 'There is a HUGE abnormality at L5S1'. No big surprise since I'd just spent 9 months in excruciating pain - my hands would be cold and white after a five minute drive. I could not sit for more than fifteen seconds, my left foot was going numb etc. etc. I saw the neurosurgeon and he was all like ' If this was 1/4 the size we could maybe consider not doing surgery'. (rupture was approx 2cm in diameter - visible on an X-ray with no dye) I consulted with a couple of people and completely changed my Yoga practice - working with just a very few very specific asanas done with tremendous internal dynamics. I changed the way I walk, sit, get in and out of cars etc.
Two weeks later the neuro said - and I quote 'we're comfortable letting you play with this for awhile'. Now I do Bagua (internal martial art with lots of twisting back bends) outdoors - even on ice. Carry my autistic 14-year-old up and down the stairs on my back, haul salt downstairs for the water softener and dive as long as I want.

The rubber weight belt really helps - push it down on your hips. By itself this might fix the problem. I also use a weight vest but only with a very small amount of weight in it - just enough to help my upper body stay down for photography/spearfishing. It's handiier to add weights to it for shallow dives but right now - when I'm diving mostly more the 30 feet I have only 2lbs in the vest. The scissor motion of kicking is really great for your low back if you do it more from your hips/thighs and focus on opposing the legs.

Sitting in chairs is what wrecks our low backs. Forward bends can be dangerous if you have a bulged or ruptured disk - they relieve it temporarily but can over flatten your low back (I did such intense yoga that I took the curves out of my low back and neck!!) Back bends are risky too - you have to do both with correct internal dynamics - you probably need instruction for that - the posture has to be evenly distributed or you'll tend to release at areas that allow it, while the tight areas remain tight - eventually the loose areas will blow out.. Stomach muscles are key. Learn to isolate and lightly draw in the lower abdomen while walking/swimming to support your lower back. Yoga postures like the plank and whatever the hell it's opposite is - are dynamite - much better than sit ups

Being Italian, Spaghetti has special powers; don't listen to him

 

[spearheads]

I am just about to make some ankle weights out of some sheets of lead, how much weight do you use on the ankles i was thinking about 2 pounds a leg. what do you think.

oops just found the answer 500 grams

 

[billder99]

Just found this old thread, due for an update. Lot's of great advice & tips in previous posts. I am still out diving 1-2 times per week, 12 months per year... spearfishing has changed my life for the better. After much experimentation, my solutions:

• The harness has been the key to elimination of back pain. The best solution I found is the Seasoft Freediving Vest SeaSoft Scuba Products
• I like this product for a number of reasons... Very easy to put on and take off, D-ring weight release works like a dream (I test it occasionally to make sure, perfect release every time), extremly well made and durable... It comes with too much geedunk when new; I cut off all of useless stuff that gets stuck on coral/rocks/weeds (I will post a photo of my modified harness if someone will point me to a thread explaining how to post photos)
• No more weight belt, only a harness. Why? Because I'm a lazy falook and it is easier and faster to throw on my harness than both harness & belt. The harness alone is fine, though I am top heavy which sometimes makes it difficult to balance underwater. Is it BETTER to distribute weight more with both vest & belt... defintely yes.
• Ankle weights have been a major improvement for both aspetto (could not lie stealthily on the bottom, as legs floated upward) and surface swimming (keeping the legs underwater makes perfect techniqe easy... bouyant legs floating at the surface ruin any hope you have of technique or speed). Ankle weights are available from many sources, but I also ordered mine from Seasoft (only one order... remember, I'm very lazy). Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with Seasoft or any other equipment maker (I am a Construction slave)... they simply make quality stuff that works.
• I stretch for 10 minutes before entering the water, and I continue to stretch while in the water.

That's it. Now I can stay in the water for 5-6 hours a day. No, I am not a game hog. I am VERY selective, and I decide what I will shoot before starting to hunt. After shooting dinner, I just continue diving for the spiritual pleasure of it. The Sea of Cortez is a never ending marvel to behold.

 

[Bill]

One quick comment on weight belts. When I did some spearfishing in Hawaii, I had trouble with all the weight needed in shallow water. Fully packed, 3 mm suit, it takes over 3 kilos to be neutral at 20 meters and over 8 for 6 meters. No need to pack for shallow dives and no need to even take a full breath so I wore 3 kilos and took enough air to be neutral at whatever the depth. Sure helped the back and the surface interval and hardly affected the bottom time after I got used to it.