Weight, swim vs diving

[m2b]

Okay, two questions:
1. Is it possible, with a farmer john wetsuit on, including hood and booties, to need no weight at all to reach bouyancy? Right now with five pounds on I still notice a small bit of pull when I exhale at the surface, mostly in the feet area. The rest of the body is pretty much staying bouyant. I get down to 15-18 feet and I'm being very slowly pulled downward. I haven't tried it yet without any weight on to see what would happen. But could it be possible to need no weight at all. Supposedly, I heard that around here you need a lot or weight just to make it under the water, I'm beginning to realize otherwise, BIG TIME!

2. I'm using a farmer john wetsuit. I have no trouble keeping my lower body warm but my upper body gets cold enough to get me shivering after 15-20 minutes in the 68-69 degree water, even with a fleece pullover on, whether underneath the wetsuit or on top of the wetsuit. I am using a hood and booties, no gloves. I don't notice my hands being cold at all, even after getting out of the water, just the upper exposed area of the body.

I used to swim competitively as a kid and I would always be swimming in 60-65 degree water in the spring and fall when the swimming pools got filled up for the season. I never had any problem staying warm with only a swimming suit on. Granted it took me forever to get in the water but once in, I could stay in for a long time, much longer than the 20-30 minutes that I'm managing now with a wetsuit on. Does swimming increase the body temperature that much. I haven't tried actually swimming to see if I could generate more body warmth and be able to stay in the water longer as a result. Could that be a short term solution to the small in water times I've been having. The strange thing that I have noticed is that I actually do feel warmer under the water while diving, even down around/underneath the thermocline, than I do at the surface, no matter what the air temp is.

Ryan

 

[Fondueset]

I'd say your suit is probably too large.

With a 3mm suit I use 10lbs and this makes me neutral at about 12ft. On the surface I float - but sink slightly on the exhale - not something I need to struggle against - just a slight difference in buoyancy. Having to struggle against sinking at the surface is exhausting - so you definitely don't want too much weight. I routinely dive in water 65F and much lower - the lowest I've done in my 3mm suit is 47f - at which temp I was easily able to stay in for 40 minutes to an hour. At 60F I'm good to go for awhile. My suit is a custom Elios freediving suit. I also have a 5mm open cell suit for colder water or very long dives.

 

[m2b]

When I dropped down to 5 pounds today I was pretty much just hovering on the surface, no real struggling other than the feet trying to drop. The rest of the body was staying at the surface. I knew right from that point that I had made a good decision of dropping the weight down. Down around 15 feet I was ever very slowly sinking. I didn't actually try to see where the bouyancy point might be, I'll have to do that in the next couple of days. So far I can normally judge vertical distance pretty well, but horizontal isn't worth a crap in/around the water, err 200 yards only looks like 50, etc. LOL!!!

What is the difference in the amount of time you could expect to tolerate cold water temps between a farmer john and full body wetsuit. I think that is most of my problem right now with not being able to tolerate the cold. My lower body, even up to at least the rib cage if not higher, stays warm. The arms get cold and that is what sends everything else down the tubes. Since I don't have the money right now to spend on equipment I've been trying to find a way to make the equipment work that I already have. Hence why I'm using the wetsuit that I bought back in '99 for whitewater kayaking. I've started thinking that possibly by mixing swimming with the diving that I might create enough body warmth to make it tolerable without the shivering for longer periods of time. Normally it takes 15 minutes before I notice the cold right now. The more active I am the less I notice it, hence why I've been thinking about the swimming concept.

Ryan

 

[cdavis]

Hi Ryan,

Swimming will definately keep you warmer, but it will also put a serious hurt on your ability to stay down. I occasionally dive Florida springs (about 70f) with a miserable wetsuit and get cold fast. I put off swimming around until shivering starts, which also sends my dive time down the tube. Then swim some distance to warm up and try to dive again. It is a balancing act and not a very good solution for diving. In contrast,when body surfing, I wear less suit in colder water and can stay toasty for hours, as long as I stay active.

The suit style (farmer john vs whatever) is not so important as fit. Freediving suits are not normally farmer johns but are much, much warmer. I played with a 1 mil Riffe this year that was far warmer than my 3/2 surfer full suit.


Connor

 

[Fondueset]

I think Ryan may just be wearing farmer john bottoms - in which case getting cold at 65f after 20 minutes sounds about normal to me A top makes a HUGE difference - in fact with my 3 mil suit I had at least a half hour by wearing a hood - mainly because it keeps water from coming in the neck (plush lined suit - not open cell) which tends to open a tad when swimming head up along the bottom.

I was diving with my daughter a couple of days ago - she decided to just wear her farmer john bottoms and was good for about half her usual time.

 

[m2b]

I was thinking along the lines of waiting to swim until I started shivering. I knew otherwise it wouldn't make it worth the effort.

>The suit style (farmer john vs whatever) is not so important as fit.

Gee, I would think having the arms, including armpits exposed to the cold water would make more of a difference in being able to stay warm, rather than how well the suit fit. My legs, even up to about the rib cage stays warm as warm can be, but once I start to get into the exposed area around the shoulders it starts chilling down and it works it's way down the body, quite naturally.

>I think Ryan may just be wearing farmer john bottoms - in which case getting cold at 65f after 20 minutes sounds about normal to me.

I am using a full farmer john, clear up and around the shoulders. If I had a good way of keeping the shoulders/armpits warm I think my in water time would rise dramatically, even now with the temp down to 66 as of today. I didn't even make it under, the rainy weather and the cold water temps turned me into a chicken little this afternoon. I was real close, about rib cage high. LOL!!!!

I do wear a hood and booties. I haven't been wearing gloves though. I couldn't really tell what kind of wetsuit I have, I know that it an NRS wetsuit, that I bought 6 years ago when I got into whitewater kayaking. In the future I do plan on getting a better wetsuit, but I don't have the money right now so I've just been improvising when it comes to equipment.

Ryan

 

[Fondueset]

Right - my 3 mil suit has farmer john bottoms - which is what you are describing - they come up over the shoulders. I have a 3 mill top that goes over them - quite warm You could probably get just a top made for not too much.

 

[m2b]

Right - my 3 mil suit has farmer john bottoms - which is what you are describing - they come up over the shoulders.

Boy, I would call a bottom where it is nothing more than suspenders from the waist up, and not a full suit up to and through the chest. Okay, I stand corrected in my vocabulary. Thanks.

Ryan

 

[cdavis]

m2b,
I wasn't picking up that your farmer john was a one piece only.
I have one like that, 3 mil with lycra short sleeves. Its a good suit, but not for the temps you are in.

Riffe makes a long sleeve top, the 1 mil I refered to, that should be pretty cheap for just the top. It has excellent seals and would work fabulous worn under, maybe even over, your farmer john. I expect they make the same suit in 3 mil and thicker. Elios will make anything you want and shouldn't be too expensive for a top.

Connor

 

[m2b]

Connor,

I have to agree about the temps. I figure I'll go as long as I can manage at least 15 minutes in the water and then take off for the winter. I'm hoping to make it through this weekend, err into October. Hopefully, by this time next year I'll have a decent wetsuit and some better equipment as a whole then I have right now. I definitely want to try ice diving. Actually, I think the under ice hockey concept would be a riot as well. Heck, I even think it would interesting, granted rather spooky to try night diving.

I guess that old saying says it the best, take it a step at a time. I didn't figure I would ever do any kind of freediving so I've taken the first unbelievable step.

Ryan