west systems epoxy thining

[JCooke]

does thining the epoxy weaken its abilities on glueing up lams, want to penitrate mahogany better than normal consistancy, and has anyone thought about incising the wood for better penitrate. sorry for splling errors im on my cell phone.JasonPosted via Mobile Device

 

[Don Paul]

I am not a pro wood worker but I have built a few mahogany boats.
I did some tests on lam's I glued up and they tore at the grain not at the glue
joint. My method on non oily wood is to mill or plane to a very flat surface,
followed by vacuuming of any dust from the pores of the wood.
Use a quality laminating resin and follow the spec's for temp of use and thinning. I use a strong straight back and lot's of clamps but I don't over do
it on the pressure. Sorry I can't help more, I'm a metal guy.
Cheers, Don Paul

 

[HEDS]

Before i start - i dont know either!

Just a few thoughts - west system is hellish strong and tough as it is[not-thinned.]

My view is that it should have good key -so rough sawn timber is good for glueing without planing.

Also i second 'Don Paul's view on not over-screwing clamps that would cause all the glue to squeeze out.

As to incicing - i think that a quick rub with coarse sandpaper would do the job.

 

[Tin Man]

My dad did some tests a while back, and found that laminates which had been planed (or drum sanded) to a smooth flat finish would glue up considerably stronger than rough saw cut wood. Saw cut pieces would sometimes break at the glue joint, but planed or sanded ones always broke somewhere else.

Quite the opposite of thinning, some of the gun builders who I consider to really know their stuff add thickening agents to help fill any tiny voids, and to keep the resin from being squeezed out by the clamps.

Also important is to wet out both mating wood surfaces individually before placing them together.

 

[Bill]

Did you read,
Bonding (Gluing) & Clamping
Might have to read between the lines on that one. Maybe fire them an e-mail.

 

[JCooke]

Being that the epoxy is extremely strong I wanted to infuse into the wood. Test smashing some mohag lam scraps it ALWAYS breaks in the natural wood areas.

I want to test one other idea, cutting the wood so it has a ton of 1/8 inch grooves ( VVVVV) across the width and take another grooved piece and place the grooved side to grooved side together so they interlock. And epoxy that.

Now that should be real good.?.

Jason

 

[Tin Man]

Epoxy is strong in compression, but not as good in tension. Wood fibers provide the strength in tension, so you want the two pieces of wood in good contact, with as much mating surface area as possible.

If your current method is already stronger than the wood, then what is left to improve?

 

[JCooke]

If you in prove the strength you can go smaller.?. Or am I wrong.

 

[Don Paul]

If you in prove the strength you can go smaller.?. Or am I wrong.

Yes, but first lets ask what will be the task of the barrel? What are the goals
of the gun?
Will hi density wood to lesson the recoil of a hi powered, hi mass shaft be considered?
Or is mobility more of a factor?
What range and what fish will your gun seek?
Cheers, Don Paul

 

[Jonny250]

More bond area will give a stronger connection so incising/shaping the join will help, so long as you dont weaken the wood in doing so, but perhaps it's strong enough already?
epoxy should be plenty strong enough without thinning - as said above it will be the wood fibres that fail first if the join is made well.
If you want to get the join as strong as possible then you could look at vacuum bagging the connection whilst it cures; this will eliminate any non-essential resin.
Just a slight correction to what tin man said, although epoxy is not as good in tension, it is not bad either - relatively speaking (in an FRP laminate the fibres would fail in tension before the matrix) . What all laminates can suffer from is poor peel performance, but i dont think thats an issue in this case.

 

[JCooke]

I get whats being said. I just finished laming up number 6. Sizes from 36-72 inch. The waters around here are hit and miss from clearity. Fish size 0-400lbs. Some fast and some slow. So im shooting for 4 mid handle, 4 normal handle.

thanks allot guys
Jason

 

[JCooke]

Yes, but first lets ask what will be the task of the barrel? What are the goals
of the gun?
Will hi density wood to lesson the recoil of a hi powered, hi mass shaft be considered?
Or is mobility more of a factor?
What range and what fish will your gun seek?
Cheers, Don Paul

Well im just saying that if you can minimize the main core of the gun, i can add or subtract the bells and whistles, example flash lite mounted in the nose of the barrel or a spike mounted to the front for sharks, seals,etc. Or a retractable side handle. A second backup shaft.

.OOOOoooo Or maybe a hotdog cooker.... kidding


Jason

 

[Phil Herranen]

does thining the epoxy weaken its abilities on glueing up lams, want to penitrate mahogany better than normal consistancy, and has anyone thought about incising the wood for better penitrate. sorry for splling errors im on my cell phone.JasonPosted via Mobile Device

west systems recommends against thinning there epoxy ,you are far better off heating the wood and resin to lower the viscosity (for better penetration) while maintaining the resins normal strength
phil

 

[Don Paul]

west systems recommends against thinning there epoxy ,you are far better off heating the wood and resin to lower the viscosity (for better penetration) while maintaining the resins normal strength
phil

Great tip Phil, thanks.

Cheers, Don