What Spares Should One Have Handy?

[Blesum]

Today while diving, I ran across a nice sized Calico that I decided would be worth shooting. Problem was, it was in a cave, only 2' away from the tip of my gun and I had both bands loaded on my Rob Allen gun. I knew the spear would most likely go right through and I didn't want to break the spear on the rock behind the Calico. Ended up waiting for it to move and after about 5 seconds it moved faster than I could track my gun so I didn't get to squeeze off a shot.

About how much are spears? Do I order them specifically from, or for the RA guns or can I order generic spears? Are there good and bad brands? If so, what are they? What do I need to know about different sizes or descriptions to make sure they're designed for my gun and dyeema (sp) strings on the bands?

Same question for the bands - RA bands only or order from where/who?

What else do you guys keep handy with you on day trips?

-Blesum

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I think you might as well order the real Rob Allen bands and shafts from

http://www.flfreedivers.com/

You didn't say whether you were diving from shore or from a boat, but its pretty hard to carry spare anything if you dive from the beach.

On my boat, I have spare shafts, mono, crimps, slip tips, and just about everything else I can think of. I don't have spare bands because they never break without plenty of warning, and I replace them long before they have a chance of breaking.

 

[Blesum]

Shore dives 100% so far. I'm an avid kayak fisherman and will be making that transition soon I'm sure.

I just ordered some of the orange float line from that site. Seems like they have great prices.

-Blesum

 

[Bill McIntyre]

If you mean the foam filled orange float line, it is my absolute favorite from the boat driver's point of view. When I drop guys out in open water on a rough overcast day, its very hard to keep track of float lines so as to avoid running over them. That orange line floats high and stands out like a sore thumb. Hopefully, the idiots running by you in their boats will see it too.

 

[Blesum]

Yep, that's the one. I got 30' and 50'. I figure 30' will be enough for the days I'm diving super-shallow for corbina/croakers and halibut in the breaking waves. 50' is what my current cheapo system is and I rarely run out of line since I don't dive deep. Since I'm new and improving every time I go out, I figure that once I consistently run out of line with the 50, I can just clip on the 30' for 80' total right? Any problems with doing something like that or do I need to order a third and longer set? If so, what size do you recommend?

I don't do any blue water stuff yet or boat dives. I don't know how deep I'm diving - I keep meaning to dust off my diving wrist computer and put it to use, but I always forget.

-Blesum

 

[Bill McIntyre]

This response may sound weird. For open water, I don't want a float line that is any longer than the depth of my dives (and that ain't much). Any extra is just more to mess with getting in and out of the water.

But for in the kelp, I like 100 feet no matter how shallow the water. You can't use a float in the kelp because you can't pull it down after you under kelp and come up on the other side, and even if you stayed on the surface it would tangle and drive you nuts. Most people use some sort of small egg float just for a handle when it hits the end. But a white sea bass can go to the bottom, under some kelp, and then be off with your line. You can't keep a straight line between you and the fish. My favorite story involves a friend who shot a 60 pound fish in just 25 feet of water with a 100 foot line, but he was being pulled straight down, struggling up to get a breath, being pulled under again, and was about to turn loose of everything when the boat arrived and he was able to grab the swimstep.

But while that may be ideal, there isn't much kelp left on the coast this year anyway, and 80 feet should be fine.

BTW, I used to use float lines but now use reels almost exclusively, and one reason is that I can have 150 to 180 feet of line, depending on which reel and line thickness.

The photos show some examples of floats for the kelp.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

BTW, the fact that you don't do boat dives should have almost nothing to do with your choice of equipment. That should be determined by the size of the fish you want to shoot. The world record white sea bass was taken by a guy diving from the beach at PV, and every year some of the largest fish are taken by people beach diving at PV, La Jolla, County Line, etc. If you shoot a 50 pound fish while beach diving, you need the same gear that you would need if you shot it at the islands from a boat.

Edit- The 54 pound fish in my avatar was taken 8/10ths of a mile off the beach in South Orange County. While I was diving from my boat, it was certainly with kayak range from the beach.

 

[Blesum]

Hi Bill,

Thank you for the informative replies. The person who set up my float system/gun came strongly recommended by several local spearos. Mark over at James Joseph near the San Diego Airport. He seems to know his stuff and said the system he put together for me would be good enough for up to 40 pound Yellowtails.

Seeing that I landed a 50 pound White Sea Bass on a cheap coffee grinder of a reel with old 20 pound mono last May, I figure this set up should be fine for any WSB's I might run across. How many pounds is the world record WSB anyhow?

So let me get this straight - For serious kelp hunting, just run a straight float line with maybe a tiny float at one end? Then when a big fish is shot (breakaway system or no?) one just waits until the end of the line comes screaming by, and grab onto that for a ride? I'd be pretty nervous of losing my gun/spear/line doing that.

I do get my line hung up occassionally in the kelp forrests but nothing serious because the kelp barely makes it to the surface. I also swim straight and adjust accordingly based on where my line is going to drift with the current at the bottom. I've only broke off one strand before - the other times the line floats up and out when I'm on the surface pulling lightly on it.

I have more problems with my line getting stuck under rock overhangs.

-Blesum

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Hi Bill,

Thank you for the informative replies. The person who set up my float system/gun came strongly recommended by several local spearos. Mark over at James Joseph near the San Diego Airport. He seems to know his stuff and said the system he put together for me would be good enough for up to 40 pound Yellowtails.

Seeing that I landed a 50 pound White Sea Bass on a cheap coffee grinder of a reel with old 20 pound mono last May, I figure this set up should be fine for any WSB's I might run across. How many pounds is the world record WSB anyhow?

A tad over 80 pounds.

So let me get this straight - For serious kelp hunting, just run a straight float line with maybe a tiny float at one end? Then when a big fish is shot (breakaway system or no?) one just waits until the end of the line comes screaming by, and grab onto that for a ride? I'd be pretty nervous of losing my gun/spear/line doing that.

So what alternative do you have (other than a reel)? Actually, you don't have to wait for the end of the line to be in your hand. You can try to put on pressure early and make the fish turn and tie up. That often works, but if you don't have a good shot, it can also tear the fish off.

As I said, if you are diving in coastal kelp conditions now, I guess you can get away with a big float because there is almost no kelp. But summer before last, there were still thick matts of kelp, and I guarantee that you would have been unable to use a float.

Take a look at this photo taken at Clemente. Do you think you could dive under that stuff and tow a float behind you? The bed where I took my avatar right off the south end of town was thicker than that summer before last before the red tide cut off the light and wiped it out.

The conditions now along the coast are not typical, and Clemente and Catalina still have beds that would prevent your using a float.

But enjoy it as long as you can. I'll frankly be glad when conditions are back to where I can't use one.

Just in case you think I'm some sort of nut case who is the only one with this attitude, take a look at this link.

http://www.freediver.net/freedivelist/faqstuff/faq_whiteseabass.html

Scroll down to the article by Skip Hellen, the white sea bass record holder and notice his recommendation for a float line. That fish wasn't a fluke. Every year he gets a lot of very large white sea bass, and I think he knows what he is doing.

Also notice the next article by Richard Yoon in which he says he doesn't use a float.

 

[poacher]

if on a boat dive for bigger fish you could carry a spare gun completely rigged or if on a holidaay where your away from home for more than a day or 2 take spare shafts spare line for shaft spare flopper and pin or spare tips if you use screw on and spare rubbers if your just on a shore dive close to home for a few average fish its easier to just take the minimum you need to hunt and hope you don't break or loose anything .
Rubber are easily made from bulk rubber and dynema you can use lead sinkers for the balls on the ends of dynema bridles. or buy the brass ones and take some of the line for tying the bridles on to rubbers.
Rob Allen shafts are not overly expensive so a spare can be bought easily. ususally around $50 or $60 to the best of my knowledge.

 

[takeshi]

I use a 1.2m ra and have hit rocks more times than I can remember. On a trip I usually bring an extra spear, but more importantly I bring a small flat metal file. After hitting a rock I just sharpen the spear. I have never had a ra spear bend from hitting rocks though it has happened several times with other brands.

 

[spaghetti]

everything mentioned above, plus:
an iron file for sharpening shaft edges and tips, especially if you hunt on rocky bottoms.
I never go without a file after all the fishes lost from dull tips.
PS: sorry, seen too late Takeshi's file: we're on the same mood, mate ;-)

 

[Blesum]

Thanks for the tips on equipment, tying up my own bands and bringing a file along. Excellent stuff.

Bill, there's no way I could make it more than a few feet through that kelp behind you in your photo. Thanks for that site, I spent a few hours today just reading up on everything I could find there. Hopefully that site will get updated - some of the links/info was a bit outdated but I learned a bunch.

Most alarming is the SWB stuff. I seem to be the perfect candiate for a SWB. Early 30's, focused, novice and improving tremendously every time I go out. Will have to be extra-careful. And to think I got into this thinking it'd be much safer than SCUBA diving solo. :martial

-Blesum

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I'm glad you liked the site. Unfortunately, while the Freedivelist was once a very active and busy place, its a server based thing in which we all get emails posted to the list, it has been fading away in the face of web-based competition like DeeperBlue and Spearboard, so its unlikely that the FAQ section will get updated. However, in spite of the fact that a lot of the stuff on the associated web site is old, it is still valuable. The way to fight a seabass and the way to get SWB has not changed.

BTW, we have lost several very fine divers on FDL to SWB, including my best dive buddy while I was along on the trip, so its a very serious problem. I was primarily a scuba diver until 10 years ago when I reverted to freediving, but I am under no illusions that I'm safer now. This is a dangerous sport, and in particular its very dangerous when a white sea bass ties up on the bottom and we try to cut it out while holding our breaths.

I cop out and have a pony bottle in the boat if the situation is at all threatening. After mentioning on Freedivelist that I resorted to a pony bottle when a fish was tied up at 55 feet in very murky water in a strong current so that I couldn't rest on the surface, a former friend said that I wasn't really a freediver. That's why he is a former friend.

You mentioned tying your own bands, but I saw no mention of that in the thread. If you could use some help the first time, I am not all that far up the road.

 

[Blesum]

I don't see a pony bottle as copping out. I'd like to have one handy for emergencies and retrivals (tied up fish, lost guns or dropped weight belts) as well although I foresee myself mostly doing shore dives. I'm sorry about that former friend of yours, and the friend you lost to SWBs. I'm going to start paying closer attention to my dive buddies and am going to pick up some lighter weights (I'm negative at the surface when I exhale).

Thanks for the offer on help with tying my own bands the first time around. I'll keep it in mind.

I think I will pick up a new weight belt so I have a spare and will be more likely to unbuckle if I think things might be going wrong. I'll start a new thread on that one - the more newbie info there's posted, the better for all of us.

-Blesum

 

[Bill McIntyre]

(I'm negative at the surface when I exhale).

That is weight too heavy, but I've expanded on that in your weight belt thread.

At one spot I dive at Little Gibralter at Catalina Island, a rock comes up to about 25 feet with far deeper water all around. The Long Beach Neptunes, who will be the first to tell you that they are the best in the world (even if its not true) have put a nice plaque on the rock in honor of their former President, Bill Kroll. According to Terry Maas's book, Bill was fond of being negative at the surface when he exhaled so that he could sink onto the white sea bass. He died at that spot.

 

[ROBERT REYES]

The RA shafts, are kind of special, they wont break the fine wish bones, so I dont think you will be able to use any other shaft on your RA.

 

[Mr. X]

I shore fish but I always take spares, especially if away on holiday. I take a bag with a cheap "Swiss" army knife, cheap mini-leatherman type tool and disposable lighter (total cost of that lot, less than £5/$10). Spare spearline, pre-cut with one end loop already tied/crimped & spare uncut line. Spare dyneema wishbones, wishbone tool, whipping cord, crimps, superglue, some nylon braid (for cinch knotting the wishbones into the rubbers), bungee rubber. Best of all, I now have a spare gun!

The RA shafts, are kind of special, they wont break the fine wish bones, so I dont think you will be able to use any other shaft on your RA.

Some other companies (e.g. Picasso, Rabitech) make (some) spears with notches smoothed for dyneema wishbones, although you can smooth the notches on a regular spear (somebody posted some instructions & images to help on another thread). Not sure if the spears will work in the RAs though (they probably would). The RA spears are quite tough & usually significantly cheaper than stainless steel spears.