Whats new?

[foxfish]

Hi guys, I seem to have lost contact with the air gun scene, what are the top rated guns available?
Are there any dry barrel production guns?
Is there a particular gun and dry barrel kit combination that is outstanding?

 

[popgun pete]

Salvimar "Predathor", LG "Revolution" and the "Pelengas" (a whole bunch of models) seem to be the main offerings specifically aimed at the vacuum barrel market. "Taimen" for the moment appear to be confined to the former Eastern Block and are "new" in the sense of recent changes to the muzzle and handle. All now allow the vacuum seal to be changed in minutes. As for top rating, well expect numerous opinions on that score, basically whatever does the job for you (the user) is what really counts.

 

[foxfish]

Your personal opinion counts for me Pete?

 

[popgun pete]

Your personal opinion counts for me Pete?

I have different guns for different environments, so I have no favourite as such and most of my guns are old metal piston jobs. For the "seaweed jungle", which one pulls their way through at times rather than swims, I like the "Taimen", plus I know that gun inside out by now which will not be a surprise to anyone! In open water anything with a 40 mm OD tank suits me and a decent handle that fits my hand.

 

[omega3]

I have been getting more and more of the Salvimar gear(suits, knives etc.)the past 2 years on price/quality/fit alone from Italy. I looked at the Predathor at my local but my mambas are still going strong even though I have always thought their quality was suspect especially around the trigger pistons.

 

[Diving Gecko]

The Predathor is best bang for the buck but it is not totally turn key, yet.
A lot of shooters have broken their line sliders, they are brittle. Whether or not Salvi has upgraded is still unknown to me.
The piston is of the "Asso design", so some change it out for a Mares one.
With a slider setup and the resulting tang on the end of the shaft, some spearos wear through the seals rather fast.
Still, to me, best bang for the buck without much doubt.

Probably the nicest one from a development and design standpoint is the LG revolution though I, personally, feel they could have and should have pushed more.

Pelengas looks interesting, too. Just that you would buy into their system completely so getting spare parts easily or changing for some you already have lying around might be an issue. 1

 

[popgun pete]

Take a good look at the LG Sub web-page and you will see every facet of the Manilu "Revolution" gun discussed, except give the working course of the piston. An expensive way to make a gun they also mill the plastic handle out of a Delrin block. Delrin would not be my first choice for a handle material and anyone familiar with the stuff will realize why they put a step in the revised gun to set the grip handle into. It is a very nice looking gun, but they could have made it less expensive to buy by moulding parts, but then they would have to sell more guns to pay off the injection mould tooling. The only other gun that had a blended shape produced by machining every inch of the bodywork was the RPS-3, although they did mould the handle (out of the worst possible plastic). There any similarities abruptly end!

Salvimar, who have not handed their fate over to sub-contractors in China, had a high precision machining business to build on and the Scubapro "Magnum" as their core design. The "Predathor" is a reavamped body shape with a side line release location still based on the "Magnum" engine, so they have used a quality design which was made to be better than the Sten of the period. I still use my "Magnum" as it has a good grip handle with some shape to it.

The Pelengas looks pretty good, it is much better finished than I had expected and I cannot find any real problems with it. The company must have a lot of financial backing as new shapes and models are churning out all the time and it has spring steel spears, something that was an extra from other more established brands.

 

[Diving Gecko]

The tooling don't actually have to be that expensive. If they know how to design an injection mold to industry standards, which they might not - then it seems like they have the CNC capabilities to make the mold itself in-house. They could possibly then hand over that mold to an injection facility as that is not cheap machinery, either.

Another reason for not going with Delrin for the handle is that it is slippery as hell. And nothing really glues to it. So, it won't be easy to make it more grippy or modify it for your hands.

 

[popgun pete]

The tooling don't actually have to be that expensive. If they know how to design an injection mold to industry standards, which they might not - then it seems like they have the CNC capabilities to make the mold itself in-house. They could possibly then hand over that mold to an injection facility as that is not cheap machinery, either.

Another reason for not going with Delrin for the handle is that it is slippery as hell. And nothing really glues to it. So, it won't be easy to make it more grippy or modify it for your hands.

Injection moulds or dies are very expensive, they have to fit the moulding machines and have sprues, gates, runners and moving inserts to create voids which then withdraw to allow the product to be ejected. They have to be highly polished and resist erosion and distortion as the molten plastic squirts in at high pressure. My Dad was a toolmaker and made injection moulding dies for simple household products.

If you read the "sensitive handle" LG Sub page then you will see they milled little ridges into the handle. Delrin can crack as it tends to be brittle, being a hard plastic often used for bushes and plain bearings.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Interesting, I guess I am a tad spoiled in that I also know some of the best high end injection mold makes in the industry - before making their own products, they used to make molds for German car manufacturers and some very high end electronics companies. So, yes, I know it costs a fortune to order one as it takes real skill and knowledge to design and make these. But my point is that if you happen to have an engineer on your staff who can do the design, then the machining itself is not that bad. But I guess there is a reason that some engineers are specialized in designing these;-)

 

[omega3]

Do we not just use a 3d printer these days and make what we like? (I havn't even seen one out of a shop window yet)

 

[Diving Gecko]

Do we not just use a 3d printer these days and make what we like? (I havn't even seen one out of a shop window yet)

Well, in a few years... Only now, materials that are sturdy enough are arriving on scene. Also, when people say "everyone will 3D print at home" they tend to forget that a lot of people can't do the 3D design. I think that will be the real bottle neck.
That said, if interested in these things, I think Onshape.com is on their way to something good. I have done some pretty OK 3D modelling in it and I have zero CAD experience.

Anyways, I know you were kinda joking. Interesting nevertheless.

 

[popgun pete]

Here is a guy who has a couple of 3D printed band guns that do actually work, but he has designed around the current limitations of the technology if you work your way through the text and absorb what he says.
http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=188730

 

[omega3]

Well, in a few years... Only now, materials that are sturdy enough are arriving on scene. Also, when people say "everyone will 3D print at home" they tend to forget that a lot of people can't do the 3D design. I think that will be the real bottle neck.
That said, if interested in these things, I think Onshape.com is on their way to something good. I have done some pretty OK 3D modelling in it and I have zero CAD experience.

Anyways, I know you were kinda joking. Interesting nevertheless.

I follow many engineering sites ie . Interesting engineering and after seeing how those kids who initially did the parts for the AR15 plus the first repair parts printed in space, repair shells for animals and numerous prosthetics and that is just the plastics never mind the printed house, metals and sand(this one I am following closely) are being printed too. The list is becoming endless. I was kinda serious but you are absolutely right about the bottle neck for home users. CAD monkeys are fairly cheap though so I don't see this as a real problem depending on circumstances.

http://interestingengineering.com/3d-printing-is-getting-closer-to-the-production-lines/

 

[omega3]

Here is a guy who has a couple of 3D printed band guns that do actually work, but he has designed around the current limitations of the technology if you work your way through the text and absorb what he says.
http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=188730

That....now that is fab!!!

I like the comment by Morgan Freeman (last comment 1st page. Celeb spearo...cool!! )

"I was talking 2 years ago to people about printing a gun and they thought I was nuts. Please prove them wrong! Looking good so far!"

 

[omega3]

Next up....soon to be in your spearo mask with all sorts of imaging etc etc

http://interestingengineering.com/navy-engineers-develop-hud-for-diving-helmets/