Whats the deal with opencell?

[Marie Munthe]

Hi!
I have just ordered my first suit from Elios. Its a suit for Norwegian conditions (7mm lining insiden) because I dont want the hassle With the soap water everytime I am going to use it. Now i am looking at a thinner suit for my trip to the Philipines. Elios sugested a 3mm suit, but i was thinking more of a 2 - 2.5 mm suit. What do you guys think? Also, i want a suit With low waterresistance. Does this mean I would have to get smoothskin/open cell? I needs to be durable, so I dont rip it easily on reefs and stuff..but I dont want it to makes me feel all stuffed and Limited in the water when it comes to the movement. Is the efford With the soapwater Worth it?
Thanks for all help!

 

[kkdavids]

In my opinion open cell is warmer and more comfortable and has more give. On the outside smooth skin is good if you are careful, modern nylon outside suits are a lot more stretchy than than years ago.

 

[sims]

If you don't mind spending 20-30 EUR more, Elios also have a compromise solution (open cell with coating inside).

I have one of those and it's definitely possible to get into it without soap/conditioner/whatever, but just water - dry is still really difficult. Although allegedly it doesn't keep as warm as 'real' open cell, but not sure how much of a difference it is.

Trying to get 2-2.5mm smoothskin sounds like it would be very fragile though, smoothskin suits (especially if they're very thin) are quite notorious for getting damaged easily.

 

[MarcinB]

For a 2-2.5mm thick smoothskin wet suit I woul definitely take the neoprene with nylon lining on the inside. Otherwise it will get damaged quickly.

 

[Marie Munthe]

Thanks for all info! Im thinking about going for this option, any pros and cons from u guys? 8) Suit 3mm Green elastic lining inside / Smoothskin black outside Neoprene Heiwa medium Density Price Euro 210,00 it's a good alternative for freediving, always very elastic, comfortable, easy to wear like a t-shirt and more more durable with lining inside. (also reversible like photo 4) (low water-resistance) (available with Benthos or Pelagos or Silver or Green painting just add + Euro 25,00)

 

[Kars]

Why NOT having lining inside.
I'm sorry to have to contradict some others above, but I recommend not having lining inside in warm climates, because... in warm areas one sweats a lot and putting on a suit with nylon on the inside is tough.

Material choices.
I recommend choosing lining outside, opencell/ or closed or coated cell inside - indeed a pleasant thing allowing to put it on without soap.
Also in terms of thickness, it is greatly dependent on water temperature, your bioprene, your metabolism, wind, time in water.
If uncertain I would go for the thickest; 3mm. choosing the low density neoprene in combination with superstretch nylon lining outside.
Why? well if you find the 3 too hot, you can simply leave the pants off, or circulate some extra water inside, do not put your cap on. In other words there are easy ways to cool if it's a bit too warm.

Another option is sandwich, opencell - nylon - smoothskin. Which is about the same or a tiny bit less stretchy then the opencel-nylon combination.

Nylon inside experience.
Now in the summer I'm diving with a 4mm upper(smooth out- nylon in) and a 3mm smooth out nylon in high density pants. I'm experiencing difficulty putting the inside nylon lined suit on. The insulation is good for 2 hours in 23c surface - 8c bottom water.
In the pool the suit goes on with the same or less difficulty, but using no soap has onlookers less alarmed.

Comfort.
Elios has a tendency to cut their suits 1cm smaller; which make it feel snug without air cavities inside. Maybe you ask for a spacious comfort cut, so you have a bit more space for the neck, chin and chest. (I like extra space for those).


Hopefully this is not adding too much to your confusion, I think your first priority is know what you want to do where, and research what circomstances there are.

 

[Marie Munthe]

Thanks! I find it really confusing to pick The right suit. Elios sent like ten different suggestions, and for me as a Nesbyen, it's kinda hard to understand what it all means. I do know that I want a comfy suit thats not a struggle to get in to, i dont want to feel squeezed into it, i want to feel free in The water, easy to move around. But i also need it to be durable, since im a newbie and def will get some scratches here and there..
So is it something more like this i should go for? :

6) Suit 3mm Titanium coating cell inside / Nylon stretch Black outside (see photo Titanium) Neoprene Ecoline Price Euro 200,00 it's a classic freediving suit, perfect for shallow divings, very very soft neoprene, very comfortable, warmth and adherent to the body, but also very slippery to get into.
Or
1) Suit 3mm New Black coating smooth inside / Nylon elastic Black outside Neoprene Heiwa Price Euro 255,00 (see photo 0132) This is the Top-model for freediving, very elastic, warmth, adherent to the body, durable with lining outside and good also for deep diving, but also very slippery to get into.

Sorry for all these questions..

 

[Kars]

The deep diving I believe refers to the neoprene density, deep diving suits are made with denser neoprene; less air in the material. This results in a less buoyant, less warm at the surface, more warm at depth (20+ meters), less flexible, more durable suit.
Since you say you're a beginner I think you will prefer the coated Neo Ecoline because it's more flexible.

The feeling of being squeezed into may comes from having a standard suit, with a too tight cut and thick materials.
Ask them to make a comfortable cut, especially for the chin and neck. Because of longer hair and more warmth retention you also may want to ask for a low forehead cut. A suit that meets the mask is very helpful in keeping the sinuses warm when hitting termoclines or being in the wind. Warm sinuses really help equalisation a lot.

Actually you can also use the suit back home in Norway, for pool training, and for depth competitions, where a thinner suit saves a lot of energy going down or going up. I've used my high density 3mm suit successfully on some national record dives in Sweden (Nordic deep - highly recommended).

No need to be sorry for the questions

A nice trip report with some photo's on Deeperblue will do

If you're only used to regular confection (scuba) suits, you're in for a treat, and after that you'll will be spoiled by knowing how nice a well made tailored can feel.

 

[REVAN]

Why NOT having lining inside.
I'm sorry to have to contradict some others above, but I recommend not having lining inside in warm climates, because... in warm areas one sweats a lot and putting on a suit with nylon on the inside is tough.

Material choices.
I recommend choosing lining outside, opencell/ or closed or coated cell inside - indeed a pleasant thing allowing to put it on without soap.
Also in terms of thickness, it is greatly dependent on water temperature, your bioprene, your metabolism, wind, time in water.
If uncertain I would go for the thickest; 3mm. choosing the low density neoprene in combination with superstretch nylon lining outside.
Why? well if you find the 3 too hot, you can simply leave the pants off, or circulate some extra water inside, do not put your cap on. In other words there are easy ways to cool if it's a bit too warm.

Another option is sandwich, opencell - nylon - smoothskin. Which is about the same or a tiny bit less stretchy then the opencel-nylon combination.

Nylon inside experience.
Now in the summer I'm diving with a 4mm upper(smooth out- nylon in) and a 3mm smooth out nylon in high density pants. I'm experiencing difficulty putting the inside nylon lined suit on. The insulation is good for 2 hours in 23c surface - 8c bottom water.
In the pool the suit goes on with the same or less difficulty, but using no soap has onlookers less alarmed.

Comfort.
Elios has a tendency to cut their suits 1cm smaller; which make it feel snug without air cavities inside. Maybe you ask for a spacious comfort cut, so you have a bit more space for the neck, chin and chest. (I like extra space for those).


Hopefully this is not adding too much to your confusion, I think your first priority is know what you want to do where, and research what circomstances there are.

I'll second Kars' recommendation. I pretty much agree with all of his points and this is what I use for my warm water training suit (3mm Yamamoto 45, open cell inside and super stretch lycra outside). Using suit lube is a little annoying, but at the same time it makes it much easier, so it all evens out.

 

[Hobelf]

If smoothskin is same type as glideskin, it does not breath as much as uncoated neoprene. It is quieter &marginally quicker &also a bit waremer, because water does not go through.

Opencell gives better, more natural feel &is warmer then lined, but it not as durable no matter how much soap used.

Titanium reflects body heat. If combined with smoothskin, it may as warm as opencell.