what's wrong? over-training ?

[deepRelax]

Hi everybody:
I need your help ......
I am training DNF for the moment but I just can't push myself anymore through CO2 contractions and I am getting VERY frustrated !!!! :head
what's wrong with me ??? :vangry
my pool training session (1 hour) looks like this:
1) no warm-up max;
3x 80% of my pb, with 3 min rest in between;
2) 5 x Sta+dnf with increasing static or dnf distance
3) CO2 table
4) stretching
I do this twice a week and since I don't have enough time to go to the pool, I do some dry apnea walks (CO2 tables or max).

Thank you in advance for any advice,

Eric.

 

[kkobs]

you should ease up your training, those 3x80% after a max are too much in my opinion

 

[trux]

Varying your training may help perhaps too. Try focusing once more on hypercapnia (short, fast series with short recovery), once more on hypoxia (for example superslow swims), once more lactic (statics + fast dyn), technique-only sessions, sprint sessions, or sessions focused on relaxation. Doing the same exercise twice a week must be very boring and it is no wonder it leads to loss of motivation.

There are different opinions, but personally I never do any no-warm-up max dives in trainings - I save the shock effect for competitions. I prefer training the technique, hypercapnia, hypoxia, relaxation, and other apsects, and only train to certain level of my PB. When I manage to rise the comfort for the given % of my PB, I then stay assured that I can make considerably more with no-warm-up in a competition.

 

[deepRelax]

setting up an intelligent and good training routine is hard stuff in freediving!
thanks trux for your advice

Eric

 

[trux]

The best approach is setting up a training plan for the whole season. There are some examples here on DB, as well as on the web. First of all you set up your goals, then see what time and what number of sessions are available. You identify the critical time points for your performance (the most important competitions), and now you start planning. At the beginning of the season, people tend to focus on building up the muscles/fitness. Then it is often followed by a hypercpanic period, then hypoxic one, and finally the technique and then perhaps still some relaxation. However, in most cases you will have to mix the sessions a bit. For example you can't completely let out the technique untill the last period. Equally just building the muscles without any apnea training would be wasting of time. So you'll have to make some effort to create a training plan that will be efficient and not leading to overtraining.

Personally I would let max attempts only for 2-3 check points in the season. Already for safety reeasons it is quite wise, and it avoids frustration (during the season the performance is not always growing), and demotivation/overtraining. But then again there are numerous freedivers who only train up to max (or very close to).

Experienced trainer may help quite a lot. The best would be a freediving coach, but if you contact some reasonably intelligent swimming or even fitness personal trainer, and explain him your needs, and eventually speak to him about the specifics of freediving physiology, he should be able to build a good plan for you too.

 

[trux]

... and another option (when you don't know how to build your training) is asking one of the freedivers who offer online coaching. So far I know about Eric Fattah, and Kathryn Nevatt (McPhee), but there may be more of them. I think their fees are reasonable, and their advices well worth of the money.

 

[Simos]

Don't forget to have fun and enjoy freediving - if you push all the time and you start having negative associations and frustration with training, your body will simply refuse to push hard anymore.

Throwing in a completely different session, perhaps a bit unstructured, where you just 'play' around in the water, do something you are not used to etc might be a good idea.

Enjoy!

 

[deepRelax]

you're right Simos! thx for your reply;
I often want to make sessions hardcore and rigorous to improve my pb's and I forget having fun ... though pushing hard is kind of addictive too
I also have to take into account non-freediving stress (work ...) which is consuming most of my energy lately... focussing on freediving while having an stressed mind is the most difficult think I am experiencing in training currently!
Do you guys have mental tricks for this ?
E

 

[Simos]

No mental tricks but if you are training in a group, get to the pool early and spend some time chatting to others etc - helps get you relaxed and switch your mind off work, it's good to have a buffer before getting in the water..

I know exactly what you are saying about balancing with work stress and so on. For the past year and a half I'm doing extremely light training and just focus on having fun because I have external stress etc and I feel that if i was pushing hard at training I wouldn't cope and would probably give up freediving. Instead, I put not pressure on myself, make sure I enjoy every session, often train in the lane with complete beginners and focus on helping them out and despite work stress etc, I still love freediving.

I am not saying everyone should do the same as me but I think balancing training intensity with everything else that is happening in your life is key in probably any sport. For some reason in other sports like climbing I dont mind pushing harder (I actually look forward to it) but in freediving I find it really hard to push if I'm mentally tired.

Having said that some training sessions I feel really good and I know i can do more (and I do) and rarely I am too stressed/tired to do anything! There was a particularly bad time I remember when I was getting contractions as soon as i was getting in the water and was not relaxed at all so decided I wouldnt do much and then took next week off.

Anyway bottomline is that when you are having fun, motivation is sky high and it also shows in the performance so enjoy!

 

[efattah]

Disinclination to hold the breath, or inability to deal with the urge to breathe are *major* signs of overtraining, particularly CNS overstress.

 

[deepRelax]

Disinclination to hold the breath, or inability to deal with the urge to breathe are *major* signs of overtraining, particularly CNS overstress.

Thanks Eric for your comment, I ll be more careful in the future.
Usually I do 2 pool sessions and 1-2 dry sessions per week.

Do you think this is over-training or is this an accumulation problem due to non-freediving (stress and fatigue from work) activities as Simos pointed-out ?

Also, do you think that CNS over-stress could be amplified by caffeine , since this is a CNS stimulant (3 mugs/day, no coffee 8 hours before free-diving) ?

 

[azapa]

dump the coffee! The "sacrifice" will make your max attempts feel more righteous! Coffee stays around for weeks. It took me 2 weeks to kick it for good.

try to arrive at the pool earlier in the day, even a little sleepy. enjoy the warm clear water flowing over your face and body.

I only do about one or two Max attempts per year for Dynamic.

I was wondering *why* you are aborting your dives. You say contractions. But are you coming up very hypoxic? Small shake/samba? It sounds a little to me that the idea that you *may* be over training has got into your head, and you are using that as an excuse to bail.

Keep having fun! Is the main thing.

Sorry for the ramble, it's Friday!

 

[cdavis]

I just love to disagree with Azapa. . . . . . . . . KEEP THE CAFFEINE!

Well, sort of.

3 ( I'm assuming) large cups of coffee concentrated in about 18 hours is a fairly large amount, especially if its the hi test stuff Azapa used to drink. That much will get you well and thoroughly addicted (personal experience). Once hooked, if you don't get your fix for 8 hours prior to practice, you are setting yourself up for failure. Either get rid of the coffee entirely or don't skip prior to practice.

You might even find that a good jolt an hour or so before practice helps your PBs. That's happened to me although it seems counter-intuitive.

Connor

 

[GreekDiver]

i thought it takes like a day to get rid of caffeine? not weeks

 

[efattah]

There are different kinds of overtraining. It can be because there are too many training sessions in too short a time. Or it can be that the single training session is too intense, meaning that even a single repetition of the training session is automatically overtraining. If this is the case then performance will decrease after each training session, instead of the other way around.

 

[cdavis]

It may take only a day for the caffeine to leave your system, but the addiction and withdrawal symptoms persist at least two weeks. The emotional desire for that wonderful jolt persists for years, maybe longer.

 

[deepRelax]

here is some interesting doc on caffeine:
HELP FOR CAFFEINE WITHDRAWAL-CAFFEINE WITHDRAWAL FACTS, SYMPTOMS, AND TREATMENT
http://intraspec.ca/1981-v10n03-p202.pdf
Dietary supplements and team-sport performance. [Sports Med. 2010] - PubMed - NCBI
my average consumption is 2 big cups of strong coffee in the morning and one after lunch. training sessions are late: 9:45 pm on Tuesday and 10 pm on Thursday so caffeine isn't present anymore in large quantities.
I think that Simos and Eric Fattah are right, fatigue and stress from work can interfere significantly with breath-holding abilities. When your still determined to push the envelop more and more, over-stress can occur rapidly, leading the way to demotivation.

Talking to you guys and a nice cwt session in a cold quarry got my spirit up again,
many thanks!

@azapa: I m already in public transportation when the pool opens :-\ and I do max attempts at all training sessions, which -can- (in accumulation to other factors) lead to over-stress like Eric Fattah explained.
But hey..... I m behaving like a sissy here, dry training in the afternoon should put things straight again!
RRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWW

 

[deepRelax]

oh yeah....
@cdavis: caffeine (refs in preceding post) stimulates the release of glucose in the blood, which is good for us since it favors the production of ATP through anaerobic metabolism (my interpretation/please correct if it's wrong) BUT, caffeine stimulates heart beat which is bad (I think) for us ..... though it could favor a strong DR ?????
..well I don't know for sure, I am caffeine junky trying to keep my consumption as low as possible!

 

[cdavis]

Me too.

I need a small cup at supper to feel right. Do you have any caffeine near that time?

 

[trux]

Caffein raises also the hypoxic threashold, meaning it protects you a bit from an early BO.