Where to start??

[ga2.s]

Hi all
I am Gary form East Sussex, England. I am a new’ish freediver and I fancy having a go at spearing. I don’t have any shops near buy where I can go and have a look at any guns so my only really option is to order one, Any suggestions on what and from where? I want a fast turn around so I was thinking of getting something from here, Scubastore. Online Scuba gear and Scuba equipment shop.. The first time I will use the gun is in a fortnight when I am on a kayaking/diving expedition on Croatia so I want to make sure I have all the kit I need, Does a new gun come with everything needed to start out, do I need to carry spares of anything? Am I likely to lose/damage the spear? Any advice I can get would be appreciated

Thanks for your time

Gary

 

[CarbonCod]

Ok for a gun I would recommend this

For your first gun, buy a 90-100cm. 75 will feel too small when starting out. And 120 will be hard to load.
Look for an "Open muzzle" gun. Ex. Omer Cayman carbon, Cayman Hf, etc.. Also go for the rubberband that is not attached to the gun with screws. You want the full circle band like on the Omer Cayman Carbon.

Line, spear, band, and everything you need to use the gun is included on the guns from scubastore.

(I did not realise you said you where already freediving. Never mind what I wrote below)


Suit: I would go Omer again, 5mm, with hood. Any style. Mimetic camo is nice. You might not need a suit for snorkeling Croatia?
Fins: "Omer Stingray", I would not recommend Cressi in fins. To slow, feet cramp. But thats just me.
Weight belt? get a rubber one. Just do it (only needed when using a suit)
A buoy is nice and in some places recuired. A standard torpedo float will be fine, with a flag on.

Then it's just gloves, socks and a knife and thats about it i think.

 

[Padaxes]

Personally I kind of disagree with Carbon cod. His advice looks better for a more advanced Spearo to me, starting out that`s alot of money to spend not knowing if you will like it.

I started not long ago myself and I made myself a pole spear, it cost me nothing and trains you to get close to the fish. I loved it! It IS harder so I bought a cheap gun to see if I preferred that.

I would get a cheap 75 gun its easier to handle and load when your starting out and wont break the bank. SPEARO UK LTD - ONE STOP ON-LINE SPEARFISHING RESOURCE Spearo does some cheap and cheerful ones that will do the job.

If you get on with it you can upgrade in the future and worry about rubbers , muzzle types etc.

Just my 2p

 

[hudasmt]

Check out Mako Spearguns for packages both suit and guns, PM Mako1: and also The Spearfishing Store PM jimdoe2you.

MAKO Spearguns - Store

Spearfishing Gear MT


Those 2 guys knows what they are selling and they are both freedivers and spearos.

They come with the highest recommendations from me and most of the folks here.

 

[Lazuli]

Interesting thread (due to the sheer number of opinions it could generate).

I think Padaxes has a point where he recommends a 75. On a kayak, first time around, you will probably find this the best all-round length for light game if you decide to continue spearing in the UK afterwards. A 75 will help you learn to get closer to the fish with stealth. You can get good stopping power and range out of a 75 (its not all about length you know rofl). The OMER cayman series are great guns but it may be best to go for closed muzzle and aluminium barrel unless you have plenty of time to get used to configuring and fine-tuning the gun to suit your abilities. Don't go for a carbon barrel unless you can make dyneema wishbones - metal wishbones will damage the barrel as night follows day. Apnea Jersey and Subprof are possibly your fastest options shipping wise (not necessarily the cheapest but you get what you pay for).

Fins: I reckon Cressi are cheap, cheerful and rugged. Bombproof.

Get a cheap crimping tool to see you through the gun rigging process (from a tackle shop), a muzzle bungee (they dont always come with the gun), spare spear perhaps (OMER SS 6.3 with recessed barb are nice on euro guns).

rubber weight belt is a must.
Good luck with the kitting-out process! Dont go too cheap though and avoid bent wire wishbones - go articulated.

 

[foxfish]

You could read this http://forums.deeperblue.com/beginner-hunting/65300-dummies-guide-spearfishing-part-i.html

 

[ga2.s]

avoid bent wire wishbones - go articulated.

Forgive me for being stupid but what are the wish bones for? Do they not come with the gun?

 

[alexrom1207]

The wishbone is the piece or metal or cord that holds the ends of the rubber bands together. They are also the piece of metal or cord that connects to the spear so the bands can pull it. Unless you buy bulk rubber (don't), the wishbones will be sold as part of the bands. I would suggest avoiding the metal bent wishbones and the articulated metal wishbones (bent metal is junk and the articulated wishbone is a waste of money both in itself and because you need to buy expensive bands for it to connect to. Go with dynema wishbones (cord wishbones).

As for the gun. I don't fish where you fish so I can't speak from experience, but after reading all of the opinions on guns for this area I would suggest a 90cm for several reasons. First of all, if you start spearfishing you will NEVER stop. It's highly addictive. So....get a gun that will last you a while (not one you're going to want to upgrade after a short time). Furthermore, if you're in Europe, chances are that you'll be traveling to spear some great Mediterranean/Adriatic spots, so get a gun that's got some range when you'll have that nice clear water to enjoy. Finally, 90cm is not too big to use in murky water or on smaller fish, so it's a good mix.

As for what kind of gun to get. I like the railgun style personally, but I'm shooting different game than you are. Euro style guns are good for the types of fish (ironically enough) that Europeans shoot. The gun will be lighter and faster than a comparable railgun due to a less solid construction and a thinner spear. That being said, MAKO SPEARGUNS is a really great company and they make an incredible product at a very low cost. And with the option to use a 6.5mm spear you'll have a good set up for your area (all for around $185 US). Plus, mako guns use cheaper bands with dynema wishbones; whereas, many euro style guns require threaded bands that will be much more expensive.

Other option, go used. Look up some spearos that are trading up and get a used gun at a low price (that's what I did when I started). These things are designed to last a lot longer than the average spearo holds onto one. If you go this route though, post a thread on Deeperblue asking about the particular make/model of gun you're looking at (since some guns are just plain bad choices).

Just my 2 pence, and welcome to the wonderful world of spearfishing.

 

[Old Man Dave]

Yes, there seems to be no telling which threads will take off and which just die the death.

The problem here is you have 2 fishing locations and you want one gun. Croatia has very clear water and although I think the fish aren't too big you need a gun with range. However Sussex is hunted by spearo's with short and in some cases very short guns. Here the vis is often poor and fish are often in holes. One of the top Sussex divers often uses a 60cm gun.

Probably the best compromise would be the Omer XXV gold 90cm. With its 18mm powerband and thin 6.3mm spear it has range. However the XXV uses a short spear and the 90cm gun is almost as short as a standard 75cm gun. Trouble is it is not the best gun to learn with and it takes a bit of know how and experience to maximise its potential.

For a starter gun I like the beuchats but the cressi's are good too. Cheap, reliable and easy to use. They come with 6.5 stainless spears, 16 or even 18mm screw in bands and articulated wishbones and usually ready rigged with nylon line. Should be under £100 even with postage.

Length wise if you are going to mainly dive sussex then I'd get a 75cm, although this will be a little short for Croatia it will let you shoot fish anywhere. If you might in the future fish Dorset, Devon or Cornwall or even travel abroard then a 90cm might be better. I'd choose a 75cm with a 16mm band but it's your choice.

Have you tried typing in Croatia into the search function at the top of the page? There was recently a thread about Croatian dive/spearing shops. Maybe you could buy a gun out there.

Dave

 

[spaghetti]

In my country (Italy) we all start with a very short gun, 70cm or shorter. This is due to 3reasons: 1) the typical catch of a begineer in the Mediterranean are easy-to-shoot fishes living into holes, weed and crevices (morey eel, white bream, octopus....) and you need a compact gun to shoot into holes. 2) a long gun is more difficult to handle and manouvre: a handy, compact, easy weapon is better when you're a total beginner 3) with a short gun you HAVE to learn how to get close to the fish (a downside: short guns have a short range: it may be frustrating for a beginner to be unable to hit them due to the short shoot range).
A nice 75 bandgun (or 70/85 airgun) is a good choice to start with for England and for reef hunting in Croatia.

get the essential:
mask: wide field of vision. I don't think you'll need a low volume mask as I don't think you'll dive very deep. Get a mask with wide field of vision: Cressi Matrix, Omer Asia, Seatec Eye, Cressi Big Eyes....Get it black, no clear or coloured mask.
Wetsuit: double coated, with fabric coatings in & out. More resistant and easier to wear on. Stay away off technical suits like smoothskin et cetera as long as you're a total beginner.
Fins: soft longfins: Cressi Gara 3000 LD, Omer Millennium Grey or Green.
Gun: a nice, simple 75 bandgun no bells and whistles.
Knife: a small, compact, sharp one (Cressi lama, Cressi Killer....)
Belt: rubber, not fabric, rubber belt with quick release buckle.
Float: a simple inflatable baloon buoy with incorporated dive flag.

 

[ga2.s]

wow what a lot of information, thanks everyone. I liked the idea of picking something up on the way through Croatia but we are on a tight schedule so don't want to risk having to mess about. I think unless anyone can say stay well clear i am going to try out a 74 or 90 (still undecided) Cressi Comanche to start with. I have no problem upgrading in a few months time if i need too. So what else do i need to rig the gun that does not come with it and what spares may i need to carry bearing in mind i will be away from civilization for 16 days and hope to use it every day?

 

[alexrom1207]

Most guns come ready to shoot (in my experience) so you should be rigged up properly from the get go. A stringer is probably a good purchase (cheap), and if you're just starting out and will be fishing near rocks bring a sharpening stone (for your spear tip if you ding it so that it's too dull to penetrate fish). An extra spear would be nice, but so long as you don't do anything incredibly stupid I doubt you'll be bending any spears.

 

[Jonny250]

Are you driving through to Croatia with your kayak? if not, i.e. if flying then take some time to work out how you will pack your new gun. maybe keep any packaging from when it is delivered.

I would recommend the 75 for a first gun too, but get 16 and 18mm bands so that you can power-up when you want to. it's not too much with 18mm bands imo.
Dont forget a float!

 

[ga2.s]

i will be driving down there so no worries with the bagage handlers, I am going to dive out of my boat so i can do with out a float.

 

[foxfish]

Please dont underestimate the safety factor that goes with using a float.
In some countries it is illegal to dive without one!

 

[Mr. X]

OMD is right, the water in Croatia can be pretty clear (snorkelled there when it was still Yugoslavia). For that kind of vis. 90-110 would be reasonable but I wouldn't suggest starting with that.

As said above, in Sussex, they mostly use shorter guns. I think Eric said he made his gun 67 or 68cm! I know others that use 70cm Rob Allen railguns. For UK in general 75cm-90cm is normal for general use. I suggest a 70 or 75cm gun in your case though. Being in Sussex, you might find Colin Chester at European Spearfishing Supplies or someone in the BSA that know him might be willing & able to drop off a 70cm Rob Allen railgun - great piece of kit for your area that you'll be happy to use it for years (and/or resell/swap if things don't work out). Plenty powerful and equipped to handle even the biggest fish.

Re. wishbones, good point about articulated metal ones vs. non-articulted HOWEVER the soft Dyneema cord wishbones (used on Rob Allen railguns, among others) are considerably safer but they require the spear's grooves to be smoothed (RA spears come that way).

Alternatively one of the less expensive models from any of the major brands. Most models are available in size 75cm. Cressi Commanche was used by many forum members & a World Champion (75 & 60/65cm sizes - good bang for the buck). Omer Excaliber - classic decent beginner's gun? Beuchat. Imersion. Seatec. Cressi. etc.

No matter where you buy, I strongly suggest that you check with them first to ensure that they will be able to deliver in the tight time frame that you need - stress the urgency. (ESS mailed me a stringer while I was on holiday when I first started out, amazing - but best not to count on that being possible). I think you might be better off forgetting about spearing in Croatia and taking it a bit more steady back home in Sussex first (but I'm getting old and cautious).

A partial list of retailers that I am aware of:

Spearguns by Spearo uk ltd finest supplier of speargun, monofins, speargun and freediving equipment (Seatec/Venom)
Apnea Online Store (Imersion, Omer, Beuchat, etc.)
SCUBALAND Magasin d'équipement et matériel de plongée sous-marine vente en ligne sécurisée (Omer/Beuchat/etc)
European Spearfishing Supplies (Rob Allen)(With this one, I suspect you'll get a quick response or none at all)
Scubadivingstore.co.uk (Cressi)
Spearfishing,Diving, Zoggs Goggles, Natural Elite Fishers, Snorkel Battle Extreme Swimming Underwater Hockey (Picasso)​

Or, of course, the DeeperBlue.com on-line store -- accessible via the Shopping link at the top of this page.

Sometimes buying from a UK supplier will reduce shipping charges significantly - something to consider.

Some manufacturer links (for when you have a little more time to spare to browse):

Rob Allen spearguns, railguns and other spearfishing and freediving accessories.
http://www.omersub.com/home_ing.html
Google Translate
http://www.imersion.net/index.php?lg=1&chx=&fam=&prod=
Seatec​

 

[Mr. X]

i will be driving down there so no worries with the bagage handlers, I am going to dive out of my boat so i can do with out a float.

In that case it might be worth getting a "Diver down"/Alpha flag for the boat. You might also consider getting a reel with the speargun. They're not much used in the UK but are popular in the Med.

I don't use a reel. Instead I link my speargun to my float via a float-line, South African style. It means that I am not attached to gun, float or float-lines and that I am unlikely to loose my speargun, or a big fish, even if speared at depth (although I don't usually go more than 12m). In the Med. they just hold the gun but have a reel which I believe they use to release line, so that they can surface before dealing with a speared fish, if necessary. (Mainly used for big fish and/or holed up Grouper?)

...The problem here is you have 2 fishing locations and you want one gun. Croatia has very clear water and although I think the fish aren't too big you need a gun with range. However Sussex is hunted by spearo's with short and in some cases very short guns. Here the vis is often poor and fish are often in holes. One of the top Sussex divers often uses a 60cm gun.

Probably the best compromise would be the Omer XXV gold 90cm. With its 18mm powerband and thin 6.3mm spear it has range. However the XXV uses a short spear and the 90cm gun is almost as short as a standard 75cm gun. Trouble is it is not the best gun to learn with and it takes a bit of know how and experience to maximise its potential.

For a starter gun I like the beuchats but the cressi's are good too. Cheap, reliable and easy to use. They come with 6.5 stainless spears, 16 or even 18mm screw in bands and articulated wishbones and usually ready rigged with nylon line. Should be under £100 even with postage.

Length wise if you are going to mainly dive sussex then I'd get a 75cm, although this will be a little short for Croatia it will let you shoot fish anywhere. If you might in the future fish Dorset, Devon or Cornwall or even travel abroard then a 90cm might be better. I'd choose a 75cm with a 16mm band but it's your choice.
...

Dave

OMD put it well and I agree with all that he wrote, with one small exception. The Omer XXV 90 doesn't look or feel like a 75 to me; however, my 75 is an Omer XXV so it's a more difficult/unfair comparison. My XXV 90 looks about the same length as my RA90 (slightly shorter but not much) & feels much more like my RA 90 in the water than my XXV 75. I bought the XXV 90 to act as a sort of 80 between my RA90 & XXV75. For somebody planning to dive Dorset/Devon/Cornwall with only one gun - I reckon the XXV 80 would be the perfect compromise gun (but you wouldn't go far wrong with the 90/75 either). It could be used by a beginner but it's not a good beginners' gun as OMD says, too many options, features and quirks, too soft & scratchy.

If you are feeling flush with cash and, let's face it, these day who isn't (eh hem), you could get a 90 and a 75/70. An 80 would be an ok compromise - I used a 90 in Dorset for several years but it made life a little harder than necessary but I still got fish. There are some good videos on the Suessex thread of a local spearo using a 90cm RA to spear a bass, so not outlandish, conditions vary (I think UK Spearo said the guy normally uses 70 & 90 guns there).

All this talk of Sussex is making me think a trip might be in order, those guys get BIG bass.:hmm

 

[BenFord]

hey gary, welcome to deeper blue,
i would personal shop from apnea very good and quick service,
i would avoid dave at spearo's, he's a nice bloke but orders tend to take awhile and if you only have 2 weeks you need it soon,
i would go with a 75cm gun would feel abit small in clear water but if you intend to use it here the 75cm is perfect as getting clear water hee (uk) can be abit of a hit and miss event,
i have a 75cm and 90cm and i mostly use the 75cm as the viz can be only a few feet at time's,
but make your choice and go for it, which ever you choose have fun and let us know how you get on!!

 

[Mr. X]

...i have a 75cm and 90cm and i mostly use the 75cm as the viz can be only a few feet at time's...

Ditto I used my 75 almost exclusively last year (and when I didn't it was a mistake) in Dorset & Devon.

 

[ifishanyweather]

if you want all the equipment gun float knife fins etc go to spearo.com they sell a package for something like 300 pounds for beginners