why the dislike of scuba from some?

[danhitchcock]

I don't mean to troll, or start a locked thread, but i was just wondering


I go on youtube to look up videos of lobstering or spearfishing, and nearly every video of scuba has someone saying freediving is better(not to mention other animal rights people). I can understand maybe poking fun or something, but not the outright hostility.

I know this isn't every freediver of course, and i'm sure the maturity here is above youtube status, but can anyone give me insight on why some people hate scuba so much? My only theory is that either they see scuba as excessive and overkill, or that some of the more immature freedivers think that they are that much better than scuba divers.

I've been training a lot lately and look forward to freediving, but I would certainly also enjoy scuba if I had the chance. I just figured all people who enjoy reefs would be:friday. ( i imagine that smiley doesn't get used enough)

hah maybe this should go in the beginning freediving section
-daniel

 

[apneaboy]

I honestly haven't seen any hostility here.

I am a Scubie and Freediver, lets drink to that :friday:friday:friday

In my opinion if i was going to fish (and remember i support both) i would do it apnea as you are on a more level playing field to catch them. You need skill obviously to Scuba dive but it gives a massive advantage to the diver. As a spearo you are on a more level playing field and there is additional risks so seems fairer somehow.

Good luck with the freediving :friday:friday:friday
And Scuba if you ever do it :friday:friday:friday

 

[Pastor]

Nope, scuba is cool if that's your thing, just bumming around or spearing, I'm happy with it all. It's just a little bit strappy for me!

 

[Lobo Marino]

Well, spearfishing with scuba is just wrong..In countries where it´s allowed or was allowed in the past there is hardly any fish left..(look at Greece for exemple)
In most europeans countrys you would get a big fine if you get caught doing it ,and even jail sentence if you ´re a second time offender.
Even having a scuba gear and a speargun on a sailing boat can get you a big fine.

In the countries that banned spearfishing-with-scuba there are still fishes if you go deeper than 20m...in places where it´s allowed and popular there is no escape for fishes,no matter how deep they go or how long they hide in a hole..

 

[apneaboy]

Hostility should be directed at people who eat fish out of a can then moan about spearos (scuba or apnea). Lets start a riot in a supermarket :martial

oops actually its my bedtime now, i'll go to bed instead, there is no 24hr ones on a Sunday anyway. In the meantime my love to all scubies and freedivers :inlove

 

[Pastor]

But the countries that banned scuba spearing still allow trawling. It's not about how the fish are taken it's about the ethics they are taken with. Do you dive with a mask and a speargun? There is a school of thought that if so you too could be described as cheating!

 

[cdavis]

Hi Daniel,

Your question is a pretty good one, and more than a little complex. It has two parts, scuba/freediving while harvesting something and just simple scuba/freediving. The parts are related, but different.

A large part of the freediving (and nondiving) world thinks that scuba spearing is something horrible. That may seem ridiculous to others, but it is a legacy of uncontrolled, excessive harvest by scuba divers (and everybody else) that destroyed the resource in many areas. The truth is that excessive harvest did in the resource, not the particular gear, but many people don't see it that way.

To me, the more interesting relationship is between freedivers and tank divers, neither of which are harvesting anything. In truth, whatever floats your boat and allows you to enjoy the underwater world like you want to is just fine. I've done lots of both and vastly prefer freediving. The silly (and completely irrational) thing is the fact that I look down my nose, just a little bit, at tankers. Admit it or not, I think that most of us are that way, at least in the deepest hidden part of our hearts. I will admit to a thoroughly juvenile thrill at the look on a scuba divers face when he is at 80 ft and I pass him on the way up, especially if he didn't see me on the way down. The real question is why is this so?? Is it the appearance of physical superiority? The knowledge that freediving is so much less hassle, atavistic group dynamics?? I don't know, but it is fascinating to speculate on.

Connor

 

[BatRay]

Each discipline has its strengths and weaknesses, but some people like to choose sides and pick a fight rather than just enjoy diving. That could be an insecurity thing on the individual level, but why overanalyze? Scuba has definite strengths - you get to look around for a longer period of time underwater on a given dive, and that can help you to get your fish. However, you often move much more slowly on scuba, the noise scares away many, many fish, and the equipment is heavy and expensive. I am a certified scuba diver, but freedive spearing is much less expensive, so that's the route that I tend to go.

It's all image. Emerging from the water with a stringer of dead fish looks no better to enviros than driving down the mountain with a dead deer in your truck, and scuba gear probably makes it look like you busted out the heavy artillery to kill Nemo. Also, some scuba divers don't have good buoyancy control and damage reefs with their fins or by colliding with them. It all boils down to being professional and ethical in whatever you're doing at the time.

 

[alexrom1207]

I've noticed a lot of that same hostility. This is just my take on the CHICK AND THE EGG conundrum. I imagine it all starts with the freediver training hard to increase cardio and lower resting heart rate, doing tables to increase low O2 tolerance and high CO2 tolerance etc... Then the freediver meditates prior to the dive and relaxes all of his muscles to lower heart rate and decrease oxygen use. Point in all this being that the freediver has to work very hard to achieve depths in excess of 60 or even 100 feet when spearfishing. Not to take anything away from those who train to become scuba divers but deep freediving definitely requires more training, commitment, and discipline. So...when these freedivers dive down 80 or 100 feet to shoot one fish....they view it as an extreme accomplishment. A scuba diver who dives down to 100 feet and shoots 3 or 4 fish pisses the freediver off because he looks at it as unfair. So...the freediver starts saying the scuba divers are essentially cheating and that freedivers are better. The scuba diver says that if the freediver has nothing nice to say he shouldn't say anything at all etc... and so the hostility begins. It's a lot like sailboaters thinking they're better than powerboaters, surfers who can't afford to be towed into waves by jet skis saying that tow in surfing is not really surfing, or skiiers saying that snowboarders ruin the slopes. Again this is just my take on events....I love the hostility though. Yankees/Redsox, Roma/Lazzio, etc... a little rivalry only makes people behave more passionately in what they do....so in the end I think it's a positive thing.

 

[Marwan]

i ve posted on this topic here and in other forums, and my take on it is "there is nothing absolute", some med spearos tend to think that its not fair/eithical etc... i try to think of the following examples:
1 - A scuba diver taking a big fish at 50m, versus say a freediver taking a fish at 3-5m (and there are many species shot at very shallow depths)..in this scenario, there is an argument that the scuba diver needs a lot more skill to do that then the freediver, he is probably under the effects of narcosis already, has a high air consumption at that depth, has limited bottom time before going into decompression, and probably fighting that big fish without a float or reel..
2 - The native fisherman on the pacific or indian ocean island fishing with hand made spear, maybe goggles and a speedo , from his perspective, there could be a valid argument that fins (carbon, fiber glass, long blade etc...), wetsuits (camo etc...), mask (mirror lenses,amber lenses), spearguns (carbon, wood, double band, triple band etc...) are all unfair/unethical/just wrong etc.. and a form of cheating..

so,,besides legal issues (which i find debatable as the laws in some of these countries are still ok with the more destructive forms of fishing)...i say there is no right and wrong, it could vary from place to place and depends on the situation..and definitely some of that scuba spearing takes a LOT of skill to do..there is no one right set of values..
Personally i dont do scuba spearing, i dont look down on people who do it and the reasons why i dont do it are basically, that i dont find it safe versus freediving (i know this is debatable, but i have been scuba diving for 16 years and thats my opinion ) and it limits your time in the water (as you are limited by air consumption, bottom time etc...)
spearos are a small community lets have fun and try and learn from eachother instead of doing like some of the guys on youtube do with the degrading comments..
cheers

 

[sucinimad]

 

[BatRay]

To me it's like comparing apples and oranges. The training and techniques are totally different, as is much of the equipment. It's like arguing whether cars or motorcycles are better. The answer is that, in given areas, one may be better than the other. That doesn't lead to a conclusion that one is ultimately superior unless you're arguing a matter of personal taste. In that case, argument is pretty pointless and claiming that your method is 'better' in an absolute sense only makes you look silly.

 

[demasoni]

In Hawaii, if you are seen by locals spearing with SCUBA, you are given some serious "stink-eye."

I'm not a local by any means (more like a transplant), and I don't spear, but I can see their point.

As far as plain diving with SCUBA vs. free, the goals are just totally different. I work at a dive shop and I am on dive boats all the time. The first thing a SCUBA diver asks me after a freedive is "what did you see?" I usually tell them "not much."

That's because my priorities are different. For me it's the sensations, challenges, numbers, feelings, connections, and all those other things freedivers talk about. That's not to say that seeing XYZ marine mammal or rare fish isn't neat, just not the focus.

This is why I can freedive a particular divesite endless times and never get tired of it, while almost all SCUBA divers I talk to have tired of a dive site after a few dives and have "been there, done that."

 

[BatRay]

Is scuba spearing illegal in Hawaii?

You're right about the basic differences between scuba and freediving. It kind of seems that purists of either discipline seem to speak a totally different language, and they can't understand each other. The hybrids, who use tanks and freedive, are able to appreciate both sides.

Maybe we should have an outreach program....

 

[TheDude]

To me the difference in spearing with scuba vs freedive seem to be like in hunting. There are people who can trace the game, sneak up on it, wait for the right moment and then shoot. And there are people who pay for a comfortable seat on good place in the woods, place a nice lure in front of them and shoot everything that comes around.
The one has skills and the other one is just a loser trying to feel like a hunter.

Scuba is a great activity, but it gets lot of bad reputation lately, if you look at the crowds of people scuba diving on popular spots, some of them are obviously underqualified and in really bad shape. You don't see this that much in freediving.

 

[Gwaihir]

Here in Norway ,scuba divers think Freediving is kids play,and doesnt understand anything about it, that makes me frustrated at scubas,other than that I dont care,becouse I know we are the coolest

 

[Whopperhead]

Just to chime in my view :friday I don't hate it if someone wants to scuba spearfish- just not for me, They buy a fishing license and have every right to shoot fish. I kinda compare it to Deer Hunting with a Gun vs a Bow. Just about everyone can go in the woods with a gun that is sighted in and shoot a deer. But it take practice & skill to shoot a deer with a bow.

Even spearfishing while Freediving, you still need to know the best way of doing it. Those with experience and knowledge are more successful than those who are lacking in those areas.

No matter where you go or what you do there are going to be "Haters" the key is to "not care" what they think. I wouldn't post any of my videos on YOUTUBE but I like the fact that we can put them on here and watch them without having to go to another site. Otherwise all my videos would go on Stage6.com.

Scuba or Freedive just enjoy that fact that you can spearfish :friday

 

[Jace]

Ive never really seen hostility from scubas before.
ive talked to heaps before and after dives when theyre in the same location.

They are also good for advice on terrain and fish species in the deeper areas so that way you know what to lure up with bait and teasers.

 

[MahiMan]

Scuba is pretty awesome when you just wana soak up all there is to see in the dive and relax. Scuba+Spearfishing is generally frowned upon since its not much of a "sport" in other words not a true hunter. Its been mentioned here already that one can argue that point of view, depending on some variable, the indidvidual, etc... Personally the mobility and extra time in the water I gain from freediving is well worth it, although some times I wouldn't mind staying under for 15+ minutes lol. Scuba just doesn't seem to mix well with spearfishing for the most part, with all the gear and clumsy water movement.

Me personally if I see some scoobies shooting up the world in 40ft....... I will prob send some stink eye their way :hmm......

 

[Jace]

In australia you cant spear with scuba, itd be far to easy.