WK-Pool 2005 Switserland Renens Lausanne

Kars · Jul 9, 2005

I'm very happy to be selected for the world championschip and I'm working hard to raise the needed funds. The plain ticked to Geneve is now purchuased and I'm now focussing on find the cheapest place to sleep through the week. I'll arrive on Monday 22 and leave on Monday 29 - 04:30 very early in the morning.
It happens to be that 'm currently relying on wellfare, and thus I'm looking for a really cheap spot. A peace of floor, attic, putting up a tent in someones garden etc.

Appart from this I do have a bunch of other questions:

1 - Can someone get me in contact with someone to give me some cheap shelter?

2 - Have you any tips for me and others for cheap transport frome the Geneve airport to Renens-Lausanne, and back?

3 - I've heard that the registration prices have been lowerd, I cannot find these on the website http://www.immersion-profonde.ch

4 - What is the static and dynamic pool temperture? (importand for suit setup)

Thanks, Merci, Danke,
Love, peace and water!

Kars

jome · Jul 9, 2005

I understood that there's an option to put up a tent on the site? At least there was talks of such an option when we registered.

The last I heard (it was in the AIDA forum), the registration is 20e per dicipline. So if you take part in STA, DYN and DNF, that would be 60e. If you only take part in one, it'll be 20e and so on...

We're staying in some hostel, I think it was something like 20e/night if I remember correctly. PM me if you want details...

pat fish · Jul 10, 2005

Kars said:
1 - Can someone get me in contact with someone to give me some cheap shelter?
Kars

--> There should be a camping area on site, better send a mail to confirm to info@immersion-profonde.ch

Kars said:
2 - Have you any tips for me and others for cheap transport frome the Geneve airport to Renens-Lausanne, and back?
Kars

--> by train, costs you around 20 EURO both ways, the pool is a 10min walk from the station

Kars said:
3 - I've heard that the registration prices have been lowerd, I cannot find these on the website http://www.immersion-profonde.ch
Kars

--> 20 EURO per discipline

Kars said:
4 - What is the static and dynamic pool temperture? (importand for suit setup)
Kars

--> rather chilly should be around 22-24°C

yours
Pat

Kars · Jul 11, 2005

Thanks Pat!

22-24 degr for the static pool??? WOW, I need to consult my sponsor fast for some extra Neoprene!

Isn't the pool heated? I'me used to 29 with 5mm etc...

Well at least I have some time to practice this cold static thing.

I'll contact to check out the camping option.

I have some more questions too,

- What is the poolprofile like for Dynamic?
- How deep is the static pool? is there an edge to stand on in case it's deeper than 1,30m?
- What is the air temperture In Rennes like at night?

I think I'll have some more lateron, and maybe the questions can help others as well. Thanks again Pat!

Kars.

pat fish · Jul 11, 2005

I will check this out in the next one or two weeks with sébastien. maybe they heat the pool up for the event... let me check this out. standby.

regarding air temperature: switzerland is not arctica - but you can have anything between 10° and 30° at night even in august.

yours
Pat

Kars · Jul 13, 2005

I've experienced Austria's Plansee, and I need a thick sleeping bag in a tent!

Kars.

glennv · Jul 13, 2005

Some additional questions:

- Will DNF also be held in the 50 meter pool or in a 25 meter pool (better for DNF)
- Any idea how many people wil be allowed to go to the final heat per discipline in this new 2 heats system.

jome · Jul 20, 2005

Just noticed Sebastien Murat is on board. That should be interesting

wolleneugebauer · Jul 20, 2005

glennv said:
.. a 25 meter pool (better for DNF)

Hello Glenn,

I think the name of the discipline is "dynamic without fins", not "push off the border without fins". The interesting point in this disciplin is the need of a verrrry good swimming technique (without propulsing materials).
The AIDA rules even ban any kind of propulsing materials...

But you don`t need a very good swimming technique in a 25m-pool. You need a 5mm smoothskin-suit for the balance to wear a lot of weigths. Than you can push off the border every turn and glide the half way (check it out and you will be impressed by yourself),

In a 50m pool this "preperation" doesn`t help at all, more the opposite. You need a very effecient swimming technique. This is the spirit of this disciplin and is why it is the most spectacular to watch.

I even would go as far as to suggest to prohibit the use of neophren in all kinds of dynamic pool disciplins in future.

wolle

glennv · Jul 20, 2005

Hmm bit extreme statement and i absolutely don't agree.
True a 25 m pool is easier if you have a good push and glide, but this is an essental part of DNF not only the swimming technique. Or would you say Tom Sietas 175m dive is not a good DNF dive (or Stigs ) both done in 25m ?
And if you don't need a good swimming technique in a 25 meter pool lots of people would do great distances in a 25 meter pool
You also don't say that a duckdive in CW is not an important part of the total dive , or the turn point at the bottom. They are essential parts and you can improve your performance by perfecting each part of the dive incl swimming technique , start, turn et..
Like for DYN a very and underestimated part of DNF is perfect neutral buoancy , which you can not achieve without some good weights/suit combination, otherwise your perfect swimming technique is wasted on correcting your position. I only finally could improve my swimming technique and reach 114m after i figured out my buoancy. Before i was waisting usefull oxygen the wrong way. So banning suits and or weights would be a very dumb think to do. Unless you are interested in DNF with handicaps (no suits , ,no weights, extra cold water , 600 meter pool etc)
Loose from the effect of the pushoff, another reason why most people do less in a 50 m pool DNF is (at least for me) more a mental thing. There is a big difference in getting to a certain mental endpoint (wall) after only a couple of strokes compared to after maybe 10-14 strokes. Also for me personaly the flexing at the hip at the turnpoint relaxes my stomagh mussles and reduces contractions for a while

jome · Jul 21, 2005

Perhaps a new dicipline all together? No equipment (swimsuit allowed after judges check it) at all and done in open water (or 200m pool) dynamic?

But actually I think Wolle brings up a good point. Should we compare DNF results in 50m and 25m pool? Shouldn't it be a standard pool length specified in the rules? At least for record attempts...

Banning neckweights would also make the dynamic diciplines much more interesting, because people would not be able to pack virtually at all. Or even inhale fully. Should even out the odds a bit?

glennv · Jul 21, 2005

For sure there are some option for some interesting special races this way ;-)
Maybe a hands only , no packing race, or feet only could also be added .

Only we forget here that for Dynamic with fins the same is true (al be it in a lesser sence and inversed).
Most people do less in a 25 m pool because of problems with the turning points. There is a definate advantage for having as little turningpoints as possible in the with fins discipline. And we also do not ban 50 meter pools for the with fins......

Actuatly it comes a bit down to the same question discussed here before about how to compare different disciplines or performances within one discipline, or what is allowed or not within the same discipline to make it equal for all competitors. Think of the neckweight, liquid goggles discussion in CW.
Only here in DNF we are not talking about special expensive equipement for the few, but just about techniques everybody can learn and cheap stuf (homemade neckweights) anybody can buy in a widely used poolsize of 25 meter to improve your perfomance.

wolleneugebauer · Jul 21, 2005

glennv said:
Or would you say Tom Sietas 175m dive is not a good DNF dive (or Stigs ) both done in 25m ?

For sure both performances are great achievements.
Regardless from that, you could e.g. compare both performances and you
would know what I mean...

Roland · Jul 21, 2005

From reading the posts I conclude that in DNF wearing a wetsuit and extra weight to compensate for it is regarded as a huge advantage compared to just using weigts and no wetsuit.

Has anyone an idea or personal experience how much it helps to use a wetsuit? How much further do you swim with it?

pat fish · Jul 21, 2005

glennv said:
Some additional questions:

- Will DNF also be held in the 50 meter pool or in a 25 meter pool (better for DNF)
- Any idea how many people wil be allowed to go to the final heat per discipline in this new 2 heats system.

All the dynamics are normally held in the 50m olympic pool.

The 2 heats system foresees a final heat with 8 (!) athletes competing simultanously at the same Top Official Time.

Statics are held in a different pool where you can stand upright.

Yours Pat

Kars · Jul 21, 2005

- Is the heat-system also applied to Dynamic with fins, and Static? (

I find the 8 lane dynamic unsafe because: Lack off solid support to kling on after a maxium, oxigen and other help cannot be adminiterd in a fast matter when one of the middle lane divers do a BO. I understand the appeal for the press and audiance etc, but it isn't safe.

Appart from the safety aspect, Can I do two 100% performances on day? I've trained to concentrate all my muscle energy in one single dive, this is deviating from the original seeking a balance between making the final heat and saving the energy for it.

On the 25-50m pool discussion.
25-50m makes a lot of difference, 110m in a 50m pool: 3 push offs: 3x 10-15m
110m in a 25m pool: 5x 10-15m. The difference is 20-30m pushing off.
On the suit and weights stuff.
There is a limit you can wear and it's warmth. I cannot bear 5mm in a 30C pool. On the other hand: I need a suit to counter the cold of e 26C pool. Let allone a 22-23C pool!! I'll be having a 'samba' before Official Top! rofl
Body temperture makes a lot of difference, also in safety.
That's why pool temperture matter so much to me, I need to select the proper setup, adjust the weights, practice technique etc.

Rules seem to change every year, as do materials, and that cancels out comparison between records.

ps. yesterday I've mailed a lot of intresting questions to the organisation and I just got some good awsers which I think they are pretty helpfull to many:

Q- Can I please camp at the pool the whole week?
A- It's possible to camp from Monday 22 evening until Sunday 28 morning, yes

Q- Is it allowed to cook my own food on the camping site?
A- No special installations to cook in the swimming-pool field, no. But a restaurant.

Q- Is BBQing allowed?
A- BBQ not allowed

Q- What will be the lowest price?
A- The price is 10 CHF (6.75 Euros) per night per person for Camping option. Otherwise, the Underground Bunker option is 24 CHF (16 Euros) per night per person.

Q- Is there electrical current availeble?
A- Electric current should be available in some points, yes

Q- Is there clean tap water availeble?
A- Yes, clean tap water available, as WC and showers

Q- Is there an shopping area near the pool complex?
A- The closiest shopping area is around 20 minutes walking from the pool

Q- What is the poolprofile like for Dynamic?
A- Poolprofile for Dynamic is flat: 2m deep everywhere

Q- How deep is the static pool? is there an edge to stand on in case it's deeper than 1,30m?
A- 1,2m deep for Static

Q- What will be the temperture of the static, dynamic pool?
A- Temperature = 26 degrees for each pools

Q- What is the air temperture In Rennes like at night?
A- Air Temperature average for August-September = 24 in the day / 16 in the night.

Q- Will DNF also be held in the 50 meter pool or in a 25 meter pool (better for DNF)?
A- Olympic 50 meter pool for both Dynamic, with and without fins

Q- Any idea how many people wil be allowed to go to the final heat per discipline in this new 2 heats system?
A- 8 Men + 8 Women for the final heats of each discipline

Q- How does the two heat system exactly work?
A- Selection heats in the morning by random order, then the 8 bests (M/F) in the final heat at the end of the afternoon

Q- Do I need to change my Euro's into Swiss Franks?
A- Yes, more easy to have Swiss Franks, are Switzerland is not part of Europe/Euro system

I whish you al a very nice competition!

Practice the new surface protocall is my advice.

Love, peace and water!

Kars.

Kars · Jul 21, 2005

I forgot, Dynamic in 8 lanes brings also the problem of judgeing!

- Since the pool is 2m deep all arround, can we have a chair to stand on as we prepair and do our final breath up?

- I think the heat system applies for every discipline including Static, is this true?

Ok, I know I put up a lot of questions, but I'm worried about the 8 lane final heat system.

Love, peace and water,

Kars

pat fish · Jul 21, 2005

Thanks for publishing!
so I don't have to ask anymore myself!

glennv · Jul 21, 2005

Hmm at least the projected water temperature is better then the first prognoses ;-) 26C for statics is doable even for someone with my near zero bodyfat percentage brrrrr.
8 lanes dynamics we did in Paris and was scary at the least from a safety standpoint. Imagine 8 people going for worldcup gold (could be 8 blackouts in the worst case scenario).
Idealy you would need 2 international judges plus 2 safeties plus oxygen per lane for something like a worldcup.

SanSan · Jul 21, 2005

Thanks for the info Kars.

About the 8 lanes i also don't think its a good idea. We organised a competition this year and we set up 3 lanes. The 3 was also as close to the edge as possible. We had only one BO on the comp. and of course it was in the 3. lane. I can tell U it was realy hard for the safetys without any fix object to hold to... just imagine someone BO in the middle of the pool. How will U bring oxygen to the man quick or what if he doesn't start breathing on his own again? U'd have to pool him at least 25m in one directon if there isn't a high edge on the start of the lanes or U would have to pull him over 4 lanes :rcard . No way.

WK-Pool 2005 Switserland Renens Lausanne

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