Women Divers - how to get ahead?

island_sands · Dec 13, 2006

I was reading November 2006 issue of DIVER magazine, where Louise Trewavas writes:

Top Tips: How to Raise your Profile as a Woman Diver

Look good. That way, you are far more likely to get your photo published and far more likely to get on TV or films

Sleep with someone who is in a position to advance your profile.... Madonna didn't invent this ploy - how do you think Lotte Haas got her first diving break? She married the boss!

Be pushy. Male divers will ashamedly bombard magazine editors with articles about themselves and demand speaking slots at conferences. Most women divers, however accomplished, would never dream of behaving this way, and will lose out.

Be good at something else that will allow you to gain a high profile within the sport - such as writing articles, presenting TV or radio programmes, acting in films (see all of the above)

Be a really good diver! (ha!) Well it might help, but we certainly have the video footage to show that's its not essential. In fact, in my experience, being a not-so-good diver can give you far more material for articles and columns..

I wanted to say something personal on this, to all females on DB whether professional or recreational divers, career women or not.

I started my career in investment banking in London, where I saw a girl rise from secretarial level to Vice President level in 4 years. She was sleeping with one of the top partners, who was "happily" married with children. He was about 25 years older than her, and very high profile. Of course then she had him and others in the department with whom she had also slept, around her little finger. I was waiting for the day when those partners or other bankers resigned and moved on, and this girl would be left with no protegee, and certainly no respectable reputation...

I have always believed that your brains and personality will get you forward in life, and help you to stay at the top without becoming a "has-been". In my last job in Dubai I held a good position only through hard work and being pushy, but never ever suggested doing it the bedroom way, even though as a woman that offer is always on your plate. The guys on the ground always used to tell me, "Sara you have one of the biggest swinging d1cks in projects without even having had touched one" rofl - I will always appreciate their support and respect for that.

Don't let the men grind you girls! Keep pushing and make your mark through hard work, knowledge, study and HONOUR. Bending over for the boss will make you look like the banana in the long run.

Rogert · Dec 13, 2006

very well said sara. is it true that if u sleep with the boss or someone higher that u wont appreciate the job as much as someone like u who has actually worked hard for the good job?

fcallagy · Dec 13, 2006

can i just say as someone who has been and is a boss at present( although only have lads here at present so they are safe enough) that it does not say much about the boss if they take advantage of the situation although i know many do. as a boss you have a kind of advantage but with it comes responsibility even if i was not in a very happy relationshipwith my better half it would be a no go area.

fcallagy · Dec 13, 2006

sarah,
I think louise was being sarcastic in some of what see said but some of it makes sense:
Be pushy. Male divers will ashamedly bombard magazine editors with articles about themselves and demand speaking slots at conferences. Most women divers, however accomplished, would never dream of behaving this way, and will lose out.
I see this a lot, I think that some people of the fairer sex simply lack confidence in their own abilities and worry too much about what others think of them or will think of them instead of just taking action.

seaman · Dec 13, 2006

island_sands said:
I was reading November 2006 issue of DIVER magazine, where Louise Trewavas writes:

I wanted to say something personal on this, to all females on DB whether professional or recreational divers, career women or not.

I started my career in investment banking in London, where I saw a girl rise from secretarial level to Vice President level in 4 years. She was sleeping with one of the top partners, who was "happily" married with children. He was about 25 years older than her, and very high profile. Of course then she had him and others in the department with whom she had also slept, around her little finger. I was waiting for the day when those partners or other bankers resigned and moved on, and this girl would be left with no protegee, and certainly no respectable reputation...

I have always believed that your brains and personality will get you forward in life, and help you to stay at the top without becoming a "has-been". In my last job in Dubai I held a good position only through hard work and being pushy, but never ever suggested doing it the bedroom way, even though as a woman that offer is always on your plate. The guys on the ground always used to tell me, "Sara you have one of the biggest swinging d1cks in projects without even having had touched one" rofl - I will always appreciate their support and respect for that.

Don't let the men grind you girls! Keep pushing and make your mark through hard work, knowledge, study and HONOUR. Bending over for the boss will make you look like the banana in the long run.

Language casts sheaves of reality upon the social body Monique Wittig

Contemporary feminist theory try to counter those views that made presumptions about the limits and property of gender and restricted the meaning of gender to received notions of masculinity and feminity. Any feminist point of view that restricts the meaning of gender in the presuppositions of its own practice sets up exclusionary gender norms within feminism, often with homofobic consequences. Feminism ought to be careful not to idealize certain expressions of gender that, in turn produce new forms of hierarchy and exclusion.

island_sands · Dec 13, 2006

fcallagy said:
sarah,
I think louise was being sarcastic in some of what see said but some of it makes sense:
Be pushy. Male divers will ashamedly bombard magazine editors with articles about themselves and demand speaking slots at conferences. Most women divers, however accomplished, would never dream of behaving this way, and will lose out.
I see this a lot, I think that some people of the fairer sex simply lack confidence in their own abilities and worry too much about what others think of them or will think of them instead of just taking action.

i agree, being pushy was one of her positive points. i didnt' agree with "sleeping your way to the top" though. A lot of males do bombard females not only with articles about themselves but also with misogynistic comments, which are to be ignored

Must say for the most part, all the guys on DB have always been very supportive and protective towards all us girls here

seaman · Dec 13, 2006

The misoginistic comment, comes from Gender Trouble by Judith Butler, a landmark in contemporary feminism, a subversion of identity classic, just as mush as Simone de Beauvoir The second sex I would recommend also in the postestructuralist dialogue with feminism To Watch and to punish biy Michel Foucault (Surveillier et punir) And the History of sexuality of the same author. And about gender sex systems the classic work of Gail Rubin [/B]Women traffic :head

fcallagy · Dec 14, 2006

sorry seaman
english is my first language but can you please doumb it down for me ??

The misoginistic comment, comes from Gender Trouble by Judith Butler, a landmark in contemporary feminism, a subversion of identity classic, just as mush as Simone de Beauvoir The second sex I would recommend also in the postestructuralist dialogue with feminism To Watch and to punish biy Michel Foucault (Surveillier et punir) And the History of sexuality of the same author. And about gender sex systems the classic work of Gail Rubin Women traffic

kelp princess · Dec 14, 2006

agreed - that is quite a bit of language to digest! methinks you must getting your phD in this stuff.

i think anyone (regardless of gender) who sits idly by and watches while others who don't deserve a position or recognition (or whatever the carrot may be) and does nothing or says nothing to fix the problems being perpetrated by irresponisble parties, are not only huge wimps - they're foolish.

i'd much rather surround myself with people who are smarter and more capable, so the likelihood of of my getting better at something is the greatest.

from a female POV, however i will admit that it is always such a pleasure when you can and DO perform better than the boys in diving - but that's probably just my own ego trip coupled with the fact that there are fewer of us ladies in the pool!

Women Divers - how to get ahead?

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