Writer Seeking Info About Guernsey & Other Channel Islands

[ep_haury]

Hello. My name is Eric Haury. I am a writer of fiction. None of you would have heard of anything I‘ve written. But you might be interested in the novel I am working on right now, because it centers on mermaids. And that means swimming is a key element of my research. And because I have chosen the (English) Channel Islands as the basis for my fictional setting, Guernsey and its environs are also a key element of my research.

What I want to do is take mermaids (and mermen) as we typically think of them but put them in a rigidly realistic oceanic environment (fictional but based specifically on the waters around the English Channel Islands) and create a realistic society based on how they would have to adapt to that environment. To this end, I have researched everything from the lighthouse construction and fishing techniques to flint knapping (they have to get their tools somehow).

Even if I were in a position to go to the Channel Islands, I’m a mediocre swimmer at best. So my ability to learn some of these things for myself is sadly limited.

This is one of two posts him writing to this forum. I ask about monofin swimming on another thread. This post, naturally, focuses on the Channel Islands. I have been in contact with a woman who makes documentary films on the Channel Islands, but I would love to have additional sources. Anyone who has swum in the waters off the islands – especially if you didn’t stick to the surface or the immediate shore, but even if you did -- I would love to make contact with you and find out what the experience was like.

To any of you who have swum of Guernsey or any of the other islands, I’d love to hear about the experience: the visuals, the different types of microenvironments you encountered and how large they are, your interaction with the floral and fauna, what behaviors you remember seeing. I’d love to find out about differences in the same location at different times of year. I am seeking to make this story as realistic as possible, and any details, any assistance about the environment I am going to model my fictional environment after, would be helpful.

Anyone who is willing to communicate with me via e-mail or this thread – if moderators consider such a conversation to be on topic enough for a board that seems to be geared towards spear fishing – I would be grateful. I will have more general and specific questions as conversations go on. I’d also appreciate any pointers to videos – I hope I can play them – or thorough reference books. And I’d love a map that shows the different environments – sea oar forests, sands, rocky areas, etc of the waters off Islands, if such a thing exists.

Thank you to any of you who took time checking out this post. I look forward to any replies I get.

 

[Magpie]

Well you've come to the right place mate!

Here you'll find plenty of people with lots of experience in our waters, some over 50 years worth of it!

For some vids of what it looks like you'd do worse than looking at these two Utube users:

YouTube - jaketheshed's Channel
YouTube - theflatfishking's Channel

All those underwater vids are taken here.

I haven't got time to go into all our underwater habitats, but a brief outline is

East Coast: Mainly rocky with sandy inlets, some sandy bays, some rocky. Giving way to low cliffs as you head further south.
South Coast: tall cliffs with sandy bays at the bottom, giving way to cliffs with rocky bays as you head west. West coast: Wide sweeping sandy bays with rocky headlands.
North Coast: Same as west.

One key thing you'll have to take into account is the tides. We've got something like a 10m rise and fall which leaves vast areas of foreshore exposed at low tide and also means that the water is far from still with many strong tide rips at various places round the island.

I'm certain you'll get more input once the others see this thread, and I'll put more on myself later on.

HTH!

 

[Magpie]

Oh one more quick thing, I presume you have read Victor Hugo's Toilers Of The Sea? If not do so, you'll not find a better introduction to our island and the sea around it.

Oh, and one more one more thing! All the rocks, reefs and things around the island have their own names and you'd be best to make sure you use them. Most are shown on Admiralty Chart 807.

The Sea Chest Nautical Bookshop SC 807 Guernsey and Herm

 

[foxfish]

Sounds very interesting, there are plenty members who live in Guernsey on the site, ask away.

 

[Magpie]

I have been in contact with a woman who makes documentary films on the Channel Islands, but I would love to have additional sources.

Presume that's Sue Daly, a good source of info and would be worth getting some of her dvd's.

Sue Daly

 

[ep_haury]

Thank you for the replies so far.

The woman I mentioned is in fact Sue Daly, and I have one DVD and 2 books -- her book of Channel Island animals and a recent release about the ecosystem of the C.I.s both above and below the waves. Quite useful. (Thankfully, although my TV can't receive British PAL video signals, my computer can handle either video format and Sue Daly's DVD doesn't have regional lockout.)

To be clear, I will be using a fictional setting based on the Channel islands, not the islands themselves. Still, knowing the types of names used in the islands would be of benefit. Thanks for the Victor Hugo cue. I would not have thought of that one.

OK, some questions. I'm sure I will have more.

Which are the most common fish you see off the Channel Islands? (Not just #1 but any ones you see a lot.) Slightly different question, which are the most fish you see schooling? If you tried to chase tem, do you think you oculd drive the school somewhere?

What different sounds can you hear in the different environments? How noisy are the fish? What different environment sounds can you hear? And in general, how far away can you hear things?

Does the degree of opacity of the water change over the year? My understanding is that phytoplankton blooms typical in summer would make it more opaque in summer. Also, how much particulate matter tends to be in the water in the different microenvironments of the C.I. waters at different times?

Yes, what about underwater microenvironments? Due to Sue Daly's videos, I've seen several. The kelp forests, the sandy plains (or whatever its called), and os forth. But do any of those microenvironments tend to me larger or smaller? Do some tend to be closer to shore and others further away? Do some of those environments tend to be neighbors and others almost never abut each other? Are any underwater microenvironemts associated with being offshore form specific surface microenvironments? And which common fish and crustaceans are most associated with the different environments? (Also, which tend to be spread over multiple environments?)

My several colonies of mermaids will each need a home base. Room for thirty or so. Hidden or sheltered in one way or another to keep unwanted visitors from easily reaching them. It would be underwater, though something with access to shore that wouldn't make them vulnerable to human interference would be ideal. And they do need light to see, just as we do,s o it can't be that deep. Can you think of any places that would fit the bill? Or at lest come close? Ho common would a suitable location be? At the moment, they would probably vlaue security over ideal location. Also, would such a location as I describe be more or less likely to have good food slurces nearby (fish, crustceons, and sea pants)? Or is it just asl ielly as not to have food osurces around?


I fish are hunted significantly in one are do they tend to move to other ares, or do their environmental need or habit;s end to keep the fish populations in the amep lace?

What things do you need to be wary of for when swimming in the Channel Island waters? (Besides making sure you don;t run out of air, which isn't relevant to my mermaids.) For any that have swum in those waters at night, are there any addition dangers that come out at night?

If you;re just swimming around, do most fish tend to ignore you? Since this is spear fishing, do those fish you;d tend to sphere act a little wary of you, or do you need to make a move against them first?

Is there the functional equivalent of a fly in those waters? What I mean is, is there anything that hovers around you in an annoying way? It's not a threat, but you'd like to brush it away?

An I still have more unusual questions that I could come up with. But I'll start with these.

Thank you.

—E. P> Haury

 

[foxfish]

Ha Ha you are great mate I can tell you all the mermaids live in Sark, that is were all the underwater caves are situated & they all eat Ormers.
I cant wait to read your book, I will come back with some more info for later.

 

[foxfish]

Well we have quite a lot of reading on this site Guernsey - DeeperBlue.net Forums to keep you going.
Mackerel are common shoaling fish but bass are mermaid food (the most sort after) However I do believe traditionally they have always favoured the ormer, this is a shell fish like a small abalone. Ormers are the ultimate delicacies & Guernsey is just about the only place you will find them in the wild.
My best piece of advice would be to read the holiday Guernsey thread & come on over?

 

[ep_haury]

I'll definitely take a look at the thread you suggested. One key ponit for my mermaids is that the food they eat is what they can catch (or steal of fishermne'nsl ines, or get any other way). So the key element is which fish in the area aren't faster than a person with a monofin can swim. (Part of my other thread.) Although they could also eat sea plants that are edible. I have heard of ormer. They should be both easy to catch and useful as ornamantaiton after being eatten.

Although one plot ponit I want to use, if it will work, is that an unprecidented alliance is made between merfolk and the local fishermen whereby merfolkchace fish into nets in exchange for a share of the catch. Or spot the firh and call fishemren's attention; like I said before, I want it releaisitc. If chacing schools of fish won't work for one reason or another, I will not do it, and I will have to rpelace that plot elelment with something else.

Any pictures, videos, dschematics, or extremely good verbal descrpttions of the Sark caves avaialble? How large do they get? How numerous are they . Do there tend to be a few chambers per cave or is it a large, interlocking network?

 

[Magpie]

Sark Caves:
La Société Guernesiaise visit to the Gouliot Caves, Sark 2004
Sark Tourism - Isle of Sark, Channel Islands | Caves & Pools

Yeh, I can see the mermaids rounding up fish for the fishermen working, only problem would be the limited visibility at times, though I'm sure the mermaids would be able to sense the vibrations of the fish underwater to know where the shoal is.

The other thing they could eat would be crabs and lobsters. Lots of spider crabs and chancres (edible crabs) and lobsters for them to find. There's bivalves buried in sand for them to dig up too, like razor fish and cockles.

 

[ep_haury]

The cave stuff is great. Ad that led me to La Société Guernesiaise's web site, which includes a pamphlet for just a few pounds on one of the caves. I'll be sure to contact them.

In Sark are there few caves, many caveS? Are the caves you directed me larger but still in the ame "style" as it were of other caves, or would msaller caves actually look siginficantl different.

Two more things about caves. How often do you have permanent opening into the water form one of those caves? Is that conceivable? And how often do caves have multiple exits?

About the "bass is mermaid food" suggestion, does this come form folklore or is there a scientific reason why mermaids would like that?

I found a claim that off Sark: "The fish most common are lobsters, crabs, mackerel, whiting, rock-fish, silver bream, cod, soles, and congers; in summer the latter are taken in great abundance." Does that seem right to you? Is any common fish missing? Which of those fish can out swim you and which cant/? (BTW, I have determined that mermaids should be able to swim twice as fast as a human being without swimfins, so the question is which of those fish could out swim a mermaid). Are any fish on that list really not that common?

When you're swimming around in the Channel Island waters, and you see those fish, how do the different species behave? If you hunt them, since this is a spearfishing forum, how do they behave? When do they become wary? When do they flee? Are any of those species associated with particular microenvironments?

Another question. The kelp/oar weed forests? How large can they get? What i a typical size? How fast does it grow? Have you ever tried tasting it?

Looking forward to your answers.

—Eric P. Haury

 

[foxfish]

There are lots of caves in Sark with about ten of them being of particular interests & size to make them worth a visit.
Some have multiple entrances & exits & some are dead ends.
I only really know about the caves that are assessable on big spring tides when the sea level drops 9.5 meters or more, that means most are under water apart from a few days a year. There could be many more that never dry out?
The most famous cave is called the "Gouliot cave" that is most likely the one you have been reading about?
The "crypt" & Cathedral caves are very close together & about 300 feet long & 40 feet high in places but they are dead end caves.
There are specialist books available but difficult to find, I have several books but as I say they are collectible & quite valuable.

 

[Magpie]

When hunting mostly the fish are only wary of you if you move. If you lie still on the bottom they are actually inquisitive and come to see what you are, but if you move they scarper.

lobsters, crabs,
mackerel, Yes lots in big shoals
whiting, Actually means Pollack, Whiting is the local name for pollack, we don't get many true Whiting. Pollack are abundant and would be a key part of their diet
rock-fish, Actually Ballan Wrasse, abundant slow moving rock dwellers, would probably form part of diet but others would be prefered
silver bream, Actually Black Bream, smallish shoal fish, hard to catch but good when you do
cod, Fairly rare
soles, bottom dwelling flatfish, very tasty
congers, common, big, would be a wrestle for a mermaid

Others:
Bass, shoal fish when small, quick and wary
Mullet, shoal fish, abundant but quick, key part of diet
Garfish, AKA Longnose, small abundant shoal fish living in surface layers, like Mackeral
Err, there's lots of others but that the common ones.

Kelp over here tends to lie fair flat to the rocks, providing a dense covering, not a standing forest like area. BUT, in the last, err, 10-20 years dense forest of stuff called Jap Weed have grown. In some areas this stuff grow to 15-20ft tall in big columns packed together covering areas the size of a football field. It dies right off to nothing in the winter but sprouts again in the spring. ts only in gravelly/sand areas though, not rocks.

It looks like this

and provides ideal cover from ambush hunting

 

[ep_haury]

On Sue Daly's DVD with 4 videos (Blouley (sp) Bay watch, and 3 others) there are images of high "standing" and "kelp"-looking kelp. It's even the big image on the cover, I believe. Is that something different than oar weed? I'll get back to you when I can check the video and get details about names and locations. Not able to do that now.

What about water clarity when you swim? How for can you see in full daylight close to the surface? Does that change, predictably, over the year?

When you're swimming in C.I. waters, are ere any dangers (bedsides running out of air) that you have to watch for?

 

[foxfish]

We have thick kelp covering large areas of underwater reef but it doesn't grow very tall, maybe 3 0r 4' max.
Water clarity is unpredictable, there is often a spring algae bloom that effects water clarity but the wind is the main culprit that upsets the visibility. After a period of calm weather the water cleans nicely with 20 - 30' underwater visibility. Sark has deep water close to the shore & is famous for its clear water & fish life, spearfishing is not allowed in Sarks waters!
We have the second strongest tide flow in the World so that is the biggest danger, there are sharks & big bull seals but these have never been a problem so far.

 

[ep_haury]

For kelp, what;s a normal sized "grove"? What's the largest one you know of? What conditions does it favor growing in. (I understand its supposed to favor colder water, but what "terrain" does it prefer to grow on?

Also, what is the average size -- actually what I want is, the average weight -- for the edible portion of harvested ormer? I'm putting together a nifty little spreadsheet that will work out the caloric needs for my merfolk, including minimal needs for survival, how much they will burn form swimming, and different caloric contents of commonly availably foods. It's all cobbled together from estimates, and most of it will never end up mentioned in the book, but it should make the society I build be that much more realistic.

So related to that, which sea creatures, common or not, can you fish and catch easily in the English Channel? With you hands, with a spear? Whatever you see fit. Also, which fish could you imagine successfully chasing into nets dropped from the surface. Preferably, what fish could you chase into nets in sufficiently large quantities for it to seem worthwhile?

 

[foxfish]

The kelp we get does not grow very tall but does cover virtually every underwater reef between - say 20 - 100, deep at high tide, there are thousands & thousands of reefs!
Mackerel are the common shoaling fish but we have smaller fish (2-8'') that are common & are caught in nets. These small fish are called Sandeels & smelts.
An average ormer out of its shell 1/2 - 3/4lb?

 

[ep_haury]

Magpie, I finally was able to check out the videos you showed me. They will help significantly. I also was able to download “Toilers of the Sea” as a PDF file – older than Steamboat Willy, therefore not in copyright.


I think my favorite one was the dusk dive video. Hair followed by the Benny Hill show, eh? On a serious note, have you ever done a dive a night without light? Is it at all safe? IF there are significant irks (besides getting lost) care to share some with me? What do you fid at night that you don’t in the day? Or more easily find? (I have determined that Conger eels are night hunters, so they would be seen it different places)


I’m curious about “hunting” for fish. (I suppose it’s really fishing, but the spear gun approach looks a lot like hunting to me. And additionally, my question will be taking the spear out of spear gun fishing, so only hunting seems to fit the circumstances. A spear gun really isn’t 1700s equipment.) I don’t now what’s legal or what is deemed sporting in this era with fishing, but whether it would be practiced now or not, do you have any ideas about how successful anyone would be to fish with a sword, knife, or the like? That’s a bit vague, since here are so many swords, some stabbers some cutters. Let’s say a rapier (stabber) and a kitchen knife as the” default” things I’m asking about, but any hints I can get would be great. The mermaids won’t make swords and knives, but they can recover them from wrecks and even steal them – how successful would they be? What fish could you see being hunted by any of those weapons and what wouldn’t wok.


I recently put a calorie spreadsheet together, just to put some things together in my own mind about food sources, population, and other important foundation stones of how the mermaids will live. One thing I found was that of the Conger eel is particularly calorie rich. It would be a great thing to catch, but from what I’ve heard they would be hard to catch. Any ideas about Conger eel hunting? I understand that there are traps or pots used to catch them with what are they baited? (also, my understanding is that lobster traps in the Channel Islands were wire mesh back in the 1700s, so maybe eel traps were then as well. Any ideas?)


And now the last question for this go around: if one had to feed oneself completely from the Channel Island’s ocean life, how hard would that be? How much one’s time would be taken up, typically, with going after food for 1 adult? Again, a general question that can vary based on type of food acquired, but what seem like a typical time? What would seem like the best thing to go after to be most efficient?

 

[ep_haury]

Thanks, foxfish, for the data, BTW.

 

[Magpie]

The greatest risk night diving is nets. Over here it is common practise to set gill nets from shore and from small boats. They are long nets, up to 200m long and 2-4m high, stretch out in the bays to ensnare anything that swims into them. They are very hard to see and easy to stumble into, especially at night.

Congers would not be especially hard for a mermaid to capture but would need a bit of a wrestle and they'd probably get bitten once in a while, conger grow to over 100lbs so a big one would be more than a handfull! By day they hide in holes in reefs and come out to hunt at night. A mermaid with a sword could thrust it through the congers head and pull it out of the hole (as some of our members used to do diving, except with a spear, not a sword!). Yes they are often caught in crab and lobster pots as they swim in after the fish bait.

Various sorts of flatfish and rays could be caught with knives, but you wouldn't catch any freeswiming species, like bass, wrasse, mackeral, pollack etc.

By night lots of species come out to play and seem far less wary.

Well I've turned the torch off at night but you can't see a lot so its a bit pointless. You do get phosphoresence though, lots of little bibets in the water that glow when you agitate the water, for example swimming through it, it can be very impressive at times, think like the Millenium Falcon making the jump to hyperspace...

In the 1700's all fish would have been far more plentiful than they are now, conger especially!