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Writer Seeking Info About Monofins

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

ep_haury

Well-Known Member
Feb 10, 2008
181
14
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Hello. My name is Eric Haury. I am a writer of fiction. None of you would have heard of anything I‘ve written. But you might be interested in the novel I am working on right now, because it centers on mermaids. And that means swimming is a key element of my research.

What I want to do is take mermaids (and mermen) as we typically think of them but put them in a rigidly realistic oceanic environment (fictional but based specifically on the waters around the English Channel Islands) and create a realistic society based on how they would have to adapt to that environment. To this end, I have researched everything from the Channel Islands environment and fishing techniques to flint knapping (they have to get their tools somehow). Naturally, I need to know more about swimming and the experience of the ocean environment.

I’m a mediocre swimmer myself, and I live inland to boot. So my ability to learn some of these things for myself is sadly limited. I’m hoping to get some answers to questions either directly on this thread or through e-mail, whichever you would prefer.

I’m sending two different posts to sections of this forum. The other one focuses on thee Channel Islands. This post focuses on swimming with a monofin, the closest equivalent to mermaid or merman swimming any of us could do. I’m sure I’ll have to come back and add questions later. But here are some things I would like to know:

How fast can one swim wearing a monofin?

(Of course, the question can’t be that simple. I’m thinking of a Finis Competitor fin or equivalent. And I’m thinking of someone well trained and well practiced. I’m sure that’s a vague category to those of you who know monofin swimming well, but that’s the best I can do. I don’t know if I’m only asking about competitive swimmers or if I’m including very good non-competitive swimmers. Whatever seems best to you. Also, does gender make a difference? Are there enough children or young teens swimming with appropriately size monofins to say what their typical speed is? And finally, I recognize that there is variety from person to person and time to time. Just get me a sense of what’s normal, and perhaps, what the known limits are.)

OK, restarting the questions now:

What’s the typical sprint speed for monofin swimmers? How long can swimmers typically sprint?

What seems to be a normal, sustainable non-sprinting speed? How long can a well-trained swimmer swim at that speed before tiring?

With pregnancy, is there any difference in any of these swimming speeds or any other change to how one swims in a monofin?

I am familiar with the normal “arms out” way of undulating. However, my mermaids will often have to carry things while swimming. Have any of you swum without arms out. How does that change the different swimming speeds I’ve asked about or swimming techniques?

What would you say would be typical calorie burning for the kinds of swimming I’ve asked about?

I’ve seen a few mentions on this board – I’ve looked around for a few days – of cutting pieces out of a monofin to see how that affects swimming. Have any of you swum with a purposefully unevenly shaped monofin, the equivalent of a mermaid/merman with a damaged tailfin? What is the result for speed or maneuverability? How would you compensate for the “damage” if anything needs to be done?

Have any of you swum with your feet bound together but no real fin – a nonofin, if you will? What sort of speeds could you get then? How does it compare (in any way) to swimming without fins and with two unbound legs?

I’ve seen comments that swimming with a monofin leads to less maneuverability. This is more on the speculative side (as is the next question), but would any of you know if a mermaid or merman, not having femurs and other bones that limit bending to knees or ankles might be able to maneuver better than a human with a monofin, or would maneuverability be essentially the same? Let me encourage whoever guesses to make as educated a guess as possible.


OK, here’s the last question (so far). And it ties into the last one. Postulate a mermaid or merman with a fairly flexible tail. Much more than human legs. Would there be any advantage for them to use that flexibility to swim? Or could a “floppier” tail hurt speed or some other swimming quality? Based on your knowledge of swimming with the semblance of a tail, would there ever been and advantage for your legs to be “floppier” when swimming? What about disadvantages? My assumption is, merfolk would try to bend their tails’ like a dolphin or some sort of small whale would – more of a bend than a human can achieve but not “floppy.” Does that make sense or not make sense?


Thank you to any of you who took time checking out this post. Forgive me if I mangled any of the terminology or was a bit confusing in any of my questions. I look forward to any replies I get.
 
I think you need to speak to Haydn - the "merman" of Taunton - Haydn are you out there??

he knows more about this kind of stuff than anyone else I know, and I know a lot of monofinners.

My replies

pregnancy - i would expect it would slow you down quite a lot. Monofinning requires quite a bit of flexibility from the back and from the abs - which surely would be affected. No doubt there are some mother monofinners out there who could answer that better - but I'm sure it would slow you down at least in the later stages

arms out - plenty of monofinners swim with arms at their sides, I do both. Even with your arms in front of you, it's not that hard to monofin and carry something, particularly something long and thin, like a snorkel, that can almost be used to help you steer if its held out in front of you. A wider object held in front of you can act as a kind of set of pectoral fins in helping steer

calorie burning -quite high, particularly at speed and in cold water. Eric Fattah might know the number! all I know is that cold water monofinning makes you very hungry afterwards....

feet bound together and no fin - can get quite good speeds if your style is good, this is a way of learning to monofin and perfecting technique - if you train the technique without a fin, or with small fins - we use boogie board fins, when you put one on you rocket away!

I would guess that not having a "human" bone structure would enable more manoeuvrability, more of a "3D" finning action as it were, less up and down in the jerky, rocking horse technique we see in new monofinners, and more fluidity from the top half of the body down through the "leg/tail".

Personally I prefer a harder monofin and find that a "floppy tail" wastes a lot of the energy that builds up through the rest of the body action involved. However I do know plenty of people who dive with softer fins. Beginners often start with a softer fin and get harder as their technique (and muscles) develop. There is a bit of a difference between a "floppy" tail/fin and "floppy legs". Floppy legs can actually be a good thing as they then follow on from the motion of the rest of the body rather than creating a jerk themselves. But the fin bit at the end needs to be fairly strong to carry that off into the water.

My thoughts... can't wait to read the book. I've already devoured all the Helen Dunmore Ingo mermaid books - and yes I know they are meant for kids, but they are brilliant!

Sam
 
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I am really a novice when it comes to swimming with a monofin, so others can probably answer your questions better or comment on my answers. A lot of your questions regards speed. If you want to swim fast I think the main issue is being streamlined. Decreasing your resistance in water should have a much greater effect on speed and energy economy than the anatomy of the bones in the legs or tail. A mermaid/man will because of their outer anatomy always be a slow swimmer compared to fish and marine mammals and from an evolutionary point of view can not rely on speed for survival (escaping form predators and collecting/catching food). Their advantage should probably be intelligence and being able to construct things with their hands.

These were just my thoughts.

/Christian, who is neither a physicist nor a biologist
 
I saw some monofin competition results so you can do the math :)

50m sprint - 16 sec
6 km - 1 hour

And plus one my experience.
Once I was doing my laps swimming in the pool and in the other line some swimmer did her training. Well, I was swimming crawlstroke and she did dolphin style without arms (those stretched forward) without fins and on her back. I hate to admit it but she was faster then me. :D
 
It used to be common for backstroke competitions that the swimmers essentially would just do a monofin stroke under water for almost a whole length, because it's plain faster than backstroke.

The thought of being streamlined makes me think of hair. It would be utter nonsense to have hair when being a merman or mermaid, ah I'll just call them mermides from now on. Looking at human cultures, that kind of nonsense is often regarded as luxury or a sign of belonging to a superior class. Just look at people driving huge 4x4s with ultra-tread tyres gulping away petrol in suburbia. Having a mane would be similarly smart for a mermide.

Just a brainstorm, make of it what You will, of course. :)
 
Competitive finswimming for 50m is anywhere between 15 and 20 seconds, which is hellishly fast when you see it (and the wave following the athlete).

Usual rolling along pace is about 1 to 2m per second.

Arms up is more streamlined so less effort, arms down causes a bit less hydrodynamic so you work a bit harder and glide for less. I also find that directionally it's a bit harder with hands down (harder to stay in a straight line).

Cheers,
Ben
 
First of all, thanks for what you have given me so far. (But don't let this be the end of it. Keep it coming as long as it can come.)

As for hair, I am giving them hair. I'm making their external anatomy like we expect mermaids to look. But almost all will cut their hair short using flint tools -- if I confirm, as I tentatively have learned, that flint can be shaped into a good razor.

Anyone have any idea how long one can swim spring-style and regular style before tiring out? (Again, for a typical well-trained swimmer.)
 
...I'm making their external anatomy like we expect mermaids to look.
Since you are an expert, I will ask a question I always wondered about. How do they reproduce? I never saw any signs of sex on pictures of mermaids. Not even speaking about the fact that I do not remember ever seeing a picture of a male mermaid :D Or do they reproduce in the same way as fish? Anyway with the legs grown together, having human-like genitalia would not make the sexual reproduction easy. On the other hand there are many documented cases of relations between human males and mermaids (i.e. The Little Mermaid by H.C. Andersen), but then again, those guys were maybe satisfied orally. What do you think? If mermaids do have a vagina, where exactly is it located? Front? Back? Do males have a fully retractable genitalia or do they swim around with it exposed?

If you can put some light on this mystery, I'd be thankful.

EDIT: ah, just before sending the post, I've found some information about the anatomy and sexual reproduction of mermaids: Mermaid's Moat
 
Ah, yes, the [ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mermaid_problem]Mermaid problem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

I'm going with mammalian sex, pregnancy, and live birth. As that works much better than dead birth for continuing a species. rofl

Male genitalia is internal, male gonads presumably in the same position as female gonads and the penis only leaving the when urination or the sex act occurs.

As far as mer-human reproduction, I can't figure out how their DNA could be compatible.
 
Yeah, but Splash could use magic. Part of my ground rules is no magic ofr this. Now bear in mind, I do allow myself absurd anatomy. But I have no way of explaining how two species could breed like that.
 
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