How necesary are freediving courses?

[FjordDiver]

I live in alaska the nearest apnea courses are over 1,000 miles (and dollars) away.

This site the author claims:
"they learned more in a four-day training program than they had in two decades of diving " - See more at: http://www.alertdiver.com/Freediving#sthash.XSBDeLfH.dpuf
"[After four days most students exceeded 100ft, some even exceeded 200.]"

What exactly is so great about courses?

What are these 'secrets' they teach that cannot be learned in 20 years?

Is it true that one cannot learn to dive through practice, observation (body mindfulness) and research, but must have an instructor?

 

[sims]

The author is in the business of selling courses, so the article may be somewhat biased in that respect.

I think you misunderstand the point about some people reaching 200ft after 4 days training though (the way I read the article is that many people reach 100ft, even though their expectation was half that). Those kinds of depths need rather dedicated training.

It is true that (in virtually any occupation, including freediving) learning from someone more experienced, who has been through some of the problems you may be hitting, is much more effective that trying to figure it all out yourself (even with pointers off youtube, because often it's hard to gauge, if what you're doing is right unless someone can see you doing it).

Organized freediving courses are just one way of finding someone experienced to learn from, but if you can find such a person more informally that can of course work as well.

What you really can't learn without though is a buddy to train with, not just because of the obvious safety aspect but also because the added safety will allow you to be more relaxed and consequently perform better.

There are probably some things you can figure out yourself easily without needing too much instruction (dry static for example). But when it comes to things like Frenzel equalization, it's very difficult to do that without someone to point out what you may be doing wrong or should be doing differently.

 

[HLanger1955]

Certainly, 1000 miles to go for a course are a serious issue. Nonetheless, a good course tells yoo about theory, safety, equipment and how to move efficiently in water. A four days course is pretty short, but better than nothing. At least with respect to safety and more technical aspects. With a certified instructor one is probably better off than with some "experienced" buddy....

 

[The Free Spearo]

I'm in Nova Scotia Canada and flew down to fort lauterdale for a 3 day coarse with immersion freediving, I learned so much, changed my form and perspective, learned how to save somebody from a blackout and to help through LMC (samba) and got two personal best with a 3 minute breath hold and a total depth of 66 feet.

Worth every penny!

 

[baiyoke]

Good and relevant question.

No there are no secrets, hidden techniques or a strict need to have an instructor IMO.

Yes you can learn a lot from internet and from a more experienced body. So go ahead and get what you possibly can from the internet etc....

However!!!!!:

a) for safety reasons you can't actually dive alone (except some of the dry training, and some wet technique "swimming")

b) also sometimes things are just sooo much more time consuming when doing something from scratch (reinventing the wheel...)

c) You are missing the one on one constant process of getting the instructions you need at the moment, and getting answers to your questions in a live session, so that you can adjust. It's no supernatural instruction, just a normal plain learning process when things are very complex (and freediving is one of those things, or can be at least - it can be a simple snorkling tour also of course).

I'm not saying the following is exactly equal to freediving, but nonetheless let me rephrase your last sentence just to get a different perspective (and imagine the work that must be done if alone to keep it safe):

Is it true that one cannot learn basejumping/skydiving/techdiving/figure skating through practice, observation (body mindfulness) and research, but must have an instructor?

Find a buddy where you live and start out slowly. When you get the chance later then do a course. Stay away from diving alone.

 

[J Campbell]

I learned freediving and became pretty good before I ever took a course. I don't really know why but all my life, even before I heard of freediving, I've been fascinated by breath holding. I taught myself to do long breath holds without any instruction at all. I just naturally figured out the relaxation thing from doing many breath holds - never heard of "breathe ups" or "tables" or "belly breathing" - although now I do all of those. I practiced breath holds in my pool and did underwater laps.
About 10 years ago I discovered that what I was doing had a name and an "official" following. So I went on the web and now I've spent hours-days-years looking at these forums and others, watching videos, reading articles. I've practiced in the pool for years and gotten pretty good.
So last year I took the FII level 1 course and I must say that I actually did not learn anything I didn't already know. But I'm glad I took the course. It put me in contact with other divers and I got to do some deep dives in a quarry at the checkout dive. It renewed my interest.
My goal is not to compete - I just like the fun of it. But I think if I ever wanted to see how deep I can go (seems to be a badge for a lot of divers) then I certainly would take another course. Just about anyone can dive to 70 feet. But 200? Better take the course.
So my answer is, no you don't HAVE to take a course to learn freediving if you are really dedicated to educating yourself - meaning reading a lot online - even the "boring" stuff. And practice.
And finally, the number one thing to learn about freediving is SAFETY - never dive alone. Number two is to RELAX and have fun.

 

[cdavis]

A good instructor is worth a great deal more than his fee, if you are really into freediving and have a reasonable base of skill. I'd been diving for 40+ years, was reasonably skillful, could already hit 100ft and could have continued doing what I was doing. The course made me a much much better, safer diver, substantially increased my bottom time, and taught me the differences between deep and shallow diving (which I recognized I did not understand). Everybody is different but a good instructor will see what you in particular need and can supply it.

Minor additional benefit. On the next trip after the course, my buddy BOed on a 120 ft dive. I would not have seen him if I had not changed my style because of the course, much less known what to do even if I had seen him. He would be dead.

Connor

 

[Hurlow]

I certainly agree that a good class/instructor is worth the time and money. Everyone should ensure that an expert takes the time to explain safety, breathing strategies, relaxation, and, if necessary, equalization techniques.
Some courses and organizations do, however, seem to take this overboard in the name of profit. For example, I inquired about an intermediate or no-fins course in Gili and was told that I would have to take the level 1 course again with them first, despite the fact that I had taken such a course years before, train and dive regularly, was clearly beyond their level 2 course completion requirements in ability, and had requisite training and knowledge in safety, etc. They suggested that without THEIR SPECIFIC training and techniques I would probably be blacking out regularly and at grave danger when freediving during their course. I certainly understand the need to make a profit, but this was a bit ridiculous. I've heard other freedivers with similar experiences with specific organizations not accepting another organization's courses. This is silly.
So, yes, make sure to get some formal instruction to ensure you and everyone you dive with is safe (somewhere- anywhere reputable really), but these classes aren't magic. Your ability beyond these basic principles will be determined mostly by practice and relaxation.

 

[cdavis]

Hurlow makes two very good points. As free diving has grown, there have arisen instructors and courses that are more interested in $ than good instruction. There are others who are just plain not very good. It is absolutely critical that the instructor be good at what he does. Anybody contemplating a course should spend significant time researching who is good. I don't think the flavor of the certifying organization matters all that much. Second, the course is a base to build on. You may learn a ton and greatly increase your capacity, but if you don't use it as a base of future development, you'll get no further and will probably lose what you gained. My course provided a base from which I could effectively add what I learned on the internet and from other divers. I'm a far more skillful diver today than after the course. (time to take a more advanced one)

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I certainly agree that a good class/instructor is worth the time and money. Everyone should ensure that an expert takes the time to explain safety, breathing strategies, relaxation, and, if necessary, equalization techniques.
Some courses and organizations do, however, seem to take this overboard in the name of profit. For example, I inquired about an intermediate or no-fins course in Gili and was told that I would have to take the level 1 course again with them first, despite the fact that I had taken such a course years before, train and dive regularly, was clearly beyond their level 2 course completion requirements in ability, and had requisite training and knowledge in safety, etc. They suggested that without THEIR SPECIFIC training and techniques I would probably be blacking out regularly and at grave danger when freediving during their course. I certainly understand the need to make a profit, but this was a bit ridiculous. I've heard other freedivers with similar experiences with specific organizations not accepting another organization's courses. This is silly.
So, yes, make sure to get some formal instruction to ensure you and everyone you dive with is safe (somewhere- anywhere reputable really), but these classes aren't magic. Your ability beyond these basic principles will be determined mostly by practice and relaxation.

Sorry for the digression, but this reminds me of the scuba certification situation. I started scuba diving in 1954 when there were no certification courses. I had already been free dive spearfishing for a couple of years so I was quite comfortable in the water shooting fish bigger than I was. I don't recommend this approach, but I survived.

Later, as a USMC officer, I went through a month-long Navy scuba course at Pearl Harbor. We dove night and day, and people actually flunked out. Imagine that! They really didn't give a shit about revenue from more customers.

So in the mid-60s, after 18 months in flight school, I arrived in California all hot to resume diving, but this certification thing had caught on, and they wanted to see my NAUI card before they would fill my tanks. I said I didn't have one, but was glad to show them my certificate saying I was number one in my class at that Navy diving school.

That wasn't good enough, but they just happened to be selling a course that would certify me. I'm sure that was just coincidental.

 

[NoFair]

The Norwegian army certifies their divers as CMAS for civilian purposes (at least they did a few years ago when I was in)

 

[esom]

Hurlow , "some formal instruction" doesn´t do the safety trick, let alone to make things sure. - it works the least bad if the very freediving is formalised as well. Enjoy your meal...

...on topic: I agree with sims and baiyoke. It is not the prescibed things in some so called "course" (where should this thing be?!!) that is great about the dedicated learning time.

To the contrary. It is the interaction with your teacher that can become magical. And it does so in particular if you are not fitted into subjects but if things are taken step by step, developing them out of your way to act and out of the way, you and your teacher interact.

If it´s difficult to get in touch anyway, take the challenge and find a 1 to 1 class.
This way you can stay out of certification bullshitting courses and the brainwash it needs, to get you to the conclsion that you need to take the next so called "level"* after that. You can then tell your teacher, that you want to improve your freediving, so that your teacher and you can start to find out, what that is and how to improve it.

going somewhere for 10 days or few more is good. a single session can be great!



* These levels are to my experience as far from reality as they could be. EVERY freediver is great at some things and takes days or weeks to learn others. which is which is totally mixed up and very often not corresponding in any way with objective measures or "experience". the misleading clear structure lives only on paper and in so called "instructors" heads.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I'm sure that free diving courses are very useful, although at age 75 it maybe a bit late for me. I might be embarrassed.

But the use of the word "necessity" is what frightens me. I'll draw another parallel with scuba certification.

When I started scuba diving in 1954, there were no certification courses, at least none that I was aware of. You could get a tank filled or go out on a scuba charter boat without showing a card. Later, in order to sell courses, dive shops started requiring cards to fill your tank. Finally, dive boats started requiring cards to take you on the boat. I'm very much concerned that free diving might go the same way.

At least freedivers don't have to fill tanks. And presently, boats that charter to free dive spear fishermen, at least in Southern California, don't require evidence of taking a free dive course. But I'm afraid that all that could change if divers acquiesce and it becomes accepted that we all need a course.

I'm relatively protected in that I own my own boat, but what if I want to go spearfish Cortes Bank, which is 100 miles offshore? My boat doesn't have the size and range for that. There are a few large dive boats that take spear fishermen out there. Will they some day refuse to let me aboard if I haven't taken an FII or PFI course? I hope it doesn't come to that.

I'm not quite sure how dive shops could squeeze me out. Maybe refuse to sell me long fins or low volume masks?

 

[cdavis]

An extremely valid fear!. I watched the same process with scuba and expect the same with freediving . I have no written proof of my course and am going to be highly pissed if some ninny with 1/10th of my skill tries to say I'm not qualified. At the same time, the sport is growing fast, lots of divers would benefit from a course and dive operators need some way to figure out who might be dangerous. Making a "C card" mandatory is lousy way of doing either of the last two, but it does generate cash flow and they need something.

Hard question.

 

[J Campbell]

If I were operating either scuba or freedive boat I would require an individual have either his own "C-card" or at least be accompanied by someone who does have such a card. You can imagine the problems that would ensue on a dive trip of a few young buddies who decided just for fun to try out freediving - none of them having any training. "Hey this looks like fun. I can hold my breath longer than you! Who can dive the deepest?" What could go wrong?
I'm thinking of the scuba dive trip I took in Cancun - they let anyone go - certified or not. Nothing bad happened but I thought it was a really bad idea.

 

[esom]

Hard question indeed. One that we can not answer, but only decide about:

- As freediving professionals, giving out certifications or not.
- As freedivers interested in tuition and then asking for certificates or rather for education.

One thing is for sure, it´s our decision, not some boat captains´one

 

[cdavis]

Ahhh, but the boat captain isn't going to see it that way and I'm going to be seriously tempted to take a poke at him.

 

[esom]

That´s not what i ment, Connor.

Whether we end up with a poking desire, because boatcaptains behave in a certain way or not, is depending on us as freedivers, by accepting or not accepting certifications and by putting each other in the very "courses" that produce them, or not . the boatcaptain will obey to our communities expertise regarding the question, what else can he do? And he is too right about it, because a freediving community that establishes a picture of it´s individuals and a undertstanding of freediving and safety, that gives sense to certification processes is a selffullfilling mechanism.

 

[Jo_duiker]

I'd say at least dive with a buddy if you really want to improve. You can only improve with training which also means pushing/testing your limits, even if it's only a tiny bit you are pushing them... So, it's a good thing to have a buddy right then and there with you. And the best thing is also having done a course and/or go training in a club. But that has to be possible of course... If there is no club/course... :-/ I'm also having the problem of not having done any initiation and/or course. Not yet. I am lucky, as there will be an initiation in a couple of weeks. Some instructors made a nice deal with a diving club not that far from where I live...
Good luck with you in your quest!

 

[cdavis]

opps, something did not post.

esom: I was going on the assumption that freediving will follow the scuba trajectory,don't like it much, but had not really considered any alternative. You raise an alternative that I like better, but how to implement it??? It requires a community wide consensus and a large effort. How to do it? This might be better as a separate thread?