I think in the real world - the difference in overall performance is pretty small - great subject for a forum debate but, I wouldnt worry about it to much.
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11mm vs 13mm barrel
- Thread startersam mitchell
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
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It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
I think in the real world - the difference in overall performance is pretty small - great subject for a forum debate but, I wouldnt worry about it to much.
I've got the 90 Airbalete - don't have it handy, but without the shaft its certainly under a meter - with, probably just a tad over. Subtract probably 10-12cm if you take the grip off. Omer does make the gun in 80. It will handle 30 bar - but at about half that it shoots a solid 3, maybe 4 meters. I actually wanted the 80 - but found a great deal on a 90.
I shoot a 6.75m shaft - the gun is more efficient that most pneumatics because of the use of sythetic '0' rings and silicone based lubricant. I also like the hand placement - which is high and in line with the barrel. But they are pricey - you can get a Seac Sub Caccia or Mares Spark from scubastore for about half or less. Before I got the deal on the Airbalete I was going to go for the Caccia.
Heres a video of the 90 at 14 bar
I shoot a 6.75m shaft - the gun is more efficient that most pneumatics because of the use of sythetic '0' rings and silicone based lubricant. I also like the hand placement - which is high and in line with the barrel. But they are pricey - you can get a Seac Sub Caccia or Mares Spark from scubastore for about half or less. Before I got the deal on the Airbalete I was going to go for the Caccia.
Heres a video of the 90 at 14 bar
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Hi,
Interesting video. One question though, some of the shoots appear to have air coming out barrel?? Is this normal (as i thought they were no loss guns) or was the gun loaded out of the water??
What were your conclusions with the air pressures? I couldn't tell much as it appeared that where the spear hit the board was also a factor (the center had been hit a lot before)?
Is there anything to stop people putting a synthetic o-ring in a gun rather then the standard rubber one? This could be worth doing at the first overhaul.
Looks like a nice gun but the $$$ would put it out of my range.
Sam
Interesting video. One question though, some of the shoots appear to have air coming out barrel?? Is this normal (as i thought they were no loss guns) or was the gun loaded out of the water??
What were your conclusions with the air pressures? I couldn't tell much as it appeared that where the spear hit the board was also a factor (the center had been hit a lot before)?
Is there anything to stop people putting a synthetic o-ring in a gun rather then the standard rubber one? This could be worth doing at the first overhaul.
Looks like a nice gun but the $$$ would put it out of my range.
Sam
I'll answerer the first question as I'm heading out the door.
Yes the Omer Airbelete is a theoretically no loss gun, only needing top up of air after many many shots, or at the start of a new season of hunting. When my guy was stock at 30 bar and loaded with the muzzle underwater, it ejected a short burst of fine bubbles appearing to be cavitation at the tail of the shaft along with high speed water being ejected from the 4 ports.
If the gun is loaded with the muzzle out of the water and not angled upward at any point before the shot a increase in bubbles released will be seen, due to the trapped air.
My gun always maintained the same pressure at the same temp after early tests in the sea, but later developed a piston seal leak that has been addressed with a new piston assembly. The gun came to me used so I could not know what it's use and maintenance was. My new piston has different seals than what my early gun had . However I have no way of know if the guns previous owner installed non stock seals but I doubt it.
In the image the new piston (right) and different cup seal can be seen, the new O-ring also has a double lip contour when compared to the one on the left when magnified.
Cheers, Don
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Sam - there is community around modding airguns - so the answer to your questions is yes. I have a friend who shoots modded guns - with wet barrels and they are outrageous. He had a gun here that wasn't much more than 24 inches long and was nasty fast out to 10 feet or so. He had a 70cm Mares Cyrano (same as the spark, but more expensive !!!??) and it shot so hard the line made this ripping sound through the water. He modded the piston and took out the 'power regulator'.
In your shoes though, I'd get a gun somewhere around 80-90cm with an 11mm piston and plan on using it stock for awhile. I like the looks of the Seac Sub - but the Mares Spark is a good choice too - just get a decent shaft for it. You can always mod it later.
In your shoes though, I'd get a gun somewhere around 80-90cm with an 11mm piston and plan on using it stock for awhile. I like the looks of the Seac Sub - but the Mares Spark is a good choice too - just get a decent shaft for it. You can always mod it later.
Hi,
Based on all the advise i've norowed it down to the mares mimetic 97cm or the seacsub cassia 90cm.
It's been noted that the mares shafts are s@#t, does this also go for the seacsub?? If so what is a good make of shaft (from what i've read i assume spring steel?)
As for tip?? The sales guy in one of the shops i went to suggested a slip tip (i think he called it) - where the tip comes off and is attached via SS wire. Are these worth it as it look like it would be harder to get the fish off.
nearly there
thanks again for all the advise
Sam
p.s. i wont be doing a lot of air travel once i'm there so it should be to much of a pain to pump it up after travel. I'm not sure whos thread it was but using the amount of "spring back" in the pumps handle to gauge gun pressure should come in usefull.
Based on all the advise i've norowed it down to the mares mimetic 97cm or the seacsub cassia 90cm.
It's been noted that the mares shafts are s@#t, does this also go for the seacsub?? If so what is a good make of shaft (from what i've read i assume spring steel?)
As for tip?? The sales guy in one of the shops i went to suggested a slip tip (i think he called it) - where the tip comes off and is attached via SS wire. Are these worth it as it look like it would be harder to get the fish off.
nearly there
thanks again for all the advise
Sam
p.s. i wont be doing a lot of air travel once i'm there so it should be to much of a pain to pump it up after travel. I'm not sure whos thread it was but using the amount of "spring back" in the pumps handle to gauge gun pressure should come in usefull.
Glad you have narrowed it down mate.
No on the slip tip, not needed for reef fish, it will be wasted as soon as it hits the reef when you miss or penetrate the fish and hits the rock aside him.
You can get the pressure in the range by counting pump strokes from empty (usually listed in the back of gun manual) or pump with the hand pump till too difficult to load.
Cheers, Don Paul
No on the slip tip, not needed for reef fish, it will be wasted as soon as it hits the reef when you miss or penetrate the fish and hits the rock aside him.
You can get the pressure in the range by counting pump strokes from empty (usually listed in the back of gun manual) or pump with the hand pump till too difficult to load.
Cheers, Don Paul
On scubastore someone mentioned - in the review section - that the SeacSub shaft is good.
I have no experience with that gun or shaft so I don't know for sure - I just think it looks like a good deal
the Caccia are relatively new on the market - for that model - Seac sub guns have been around for a long time though.
Shafts can be had domestically at ScubasWorld - I bought one with my cyrano - I do not know if they have shafts to fit the seac sub caccia - you could ask them. You can also ask the folks at scubastore about shafts.
At scubasworld - shafts that fit the Mares Cyrano will fit the spark.
My wild guess is the Caccia comes with a decent shaft.
I'm 90% sure the one that comes with the spark will bend the first time you load it
Rog on the sliptip - waste of $$ and it'll slow your shaft down.
Also - you may want to bounce around over at www.spearboard.com - theres a few pneumophyles over there.
I have no experience with that gun or shaft so I don't know for sure - I just think it looks like a good deal
the Caccia are relatively new on the market - for that model - Seac sub guns have been around for a long time though.Shafts can be had domestically at ScubasWorld - I bought one with my cyrano - I do not know if they have shafts to fit the seac sub caccia - you could ask them. You can also ask the folks at scubastore about shafts.
At scubasworld - shafts that fit the Mares Cyrano will fit the spark.
My wild guess is the Caccia comes with a decent shaft.
I'm 90% sure the one that comes with the spark will bend the first time you load it
Rog on the sliptip - waste of $$ and it'll slow your shaft down.
Also - you may want to bounce around over at www.spearboard.com - theres a few pneumophyles over there.
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Shafts are consumables, so count on replacing whatever you get with the gun sooner or later. Spring stainless steel is the stuff to go for and is available from specialist spear manufacturers complete with the appropriate spear tail for your gun. Gun manufacturers are building to a price, so tend to supply whatever will do the job at the least cost to them. Most will offer better shafts as an option, but you pay more of course. So buy on the gun rather than the shaft, plus during your initial efforts you may lose or damage the original anyway. All part of the learning process.
Forgot to address the pressure question.
I hate loading airguns. It really creeps me out and is part of the reason I wanted an 80 - I figured I could hip load it.
So I like a gun that shoots well at a pressure low enough that it's easy to load. I think I was shooting mine at around 15 bar and it sure seemed to have plenty of force out to 4 meters. Of course if you are shooting large, hard-skinned fish you may need to up the power.
Mine also had a cracked piston - when I got it it was very hard to load - I don't know the exact pressure it had but now it is at 20 and MUCH easier to load. From Don's post it looks like they may have redesigned the piston.
During ancient times - hunting mosasaurs in the inland seas - I owned a Nemrod Torpedro. This was a flash-gordon-looking little mid-handle that shot probably a 9mil shaft. Being a high school kid I had it tricked out with a huge, double-barb slip tip. It was horrifying to load - it had a little rod that ran under the barrel and the sear was right at the end of the gun - so the slide ring stop about 1/3 of the way down the shaft - causing the spear to veer at the end of it's range. You could fire it by gripping the barrel and squeezing down on that rod. the shaft and slide ring were so bulky it would just blow small fish in half. I once shot a longnosed gar that was almost a meter long and it's head fell off. Cool looking though - and great balance.
Found a nice picture of it. It never leaked and I beat the crap out of it.
I hate loading airguns. It really creeps me out and is part of the reason I wanted an 80 - I figured I could hip load it.
So I like a gun that shoots well at a pressure low enough that it's easy to load. I think I was shooting mine at around 15 bar and it sure seemed to have plenty of force out to 4 meters. Of course if you are shooting large, hard-skinned fish you may need to up the power.
Mine also had a cracked piston - when I got it it was very hard to load - I don't know the exact pressure it had but now it is at 20 and MUCH easier to load. From Don's post it looks like they may have redesigned the piston.
During ancient times - hunting mosasaurs in the inland seas - I owned a Nemrod Torpedro. This was a flash-gordon-looking little mid-handle that shot probably a 9mil shaft. Being a high school kid I had it tricked out with a huge, double-barb slip tip. It was horrifying to load - it had a little rod that ran under the barrel and the sear was right at the end of the gun - so the slide ring stop about 1/3 of the way down the shaft - causing the spear to veer at the end of it's range. You could fire it by gripping the barrel and squeezing down on that rod. the shaft and slide ring were so bulky it would just blow small fish in half. I once shot a longnosed gar that was almost a meter long and it's head fell off. Cool looking though - and great balance.
Found a nice picture of it
. It never leaked and I beat the crap out of it.
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I have had a Mares Spark Mimetic 970 (purchased from scubastore) for a couple months. I have used the original shaft for four outings, haven't bent it yet, but the tip did spin off and was lost. When I fired to unload(in poor viz, of course), I felt the spear hit the end of the line, then the line went very slack, and I pulled up an empty line guide... apparently the spear bounced back through the guide and had fallen out with no tip to stop it. Took a few dives to 35ft to find it.
Moral of story: regularly check to make sure the tip is screwed on tight, perhaps use some loctite, and if you're going on a trip be sure to bring a spare shaft, tip, line guide, and shaft washer.
Moral of story: regularly check to make sure the tip is screwed on tight, perhaps use some loctite, and if you're going on a trip be sure to bring a spare shaft, tip, line guide, and shaft washer.