141m spearing dive?

[josedesucre]

Would anyone who knows please post what is involved in doing a 141 meters dive, including gas mix, dc time, total time, etc? I am curious because of one post in pescasub.com, according to which the diver in the picture kill this fish at a depth of 141 meters, somewhere in Florida. Wow!

 

[deep thinker]

Holy crap that thing is huge, what type of fish is that.
But why would you want to kill something like that? Maybe hes got a big family to feed, but I cant see the use...

 

[Spaniard]

That 'catch' was hotly debated on spearo board I think, ruffled quite a few feathers if I remember correctly........I believe it's some kind of huge grouper???

 

[deep thinker]

Yea I remember that thread come to think of it, apparantly its a very inquisitive species not really fair to shoot em... I hope he ate all of it...

 

[josedesucre]

I believe is a pargo cubera, a kind of giant red snapper. It actually looks bigger than it really is because of a photographic trick: it is placed closer to the camera! But of course, its a big fish. What I am a little bit skeptic is about the 141 meters dive. You can not go there with air nor nitrox, but helium, so it is a highly technical dive, which is rare for spearfishing. I didn't see the discussion in DB, and the post in pescasub.com doesn't provide any details about the dive.

 

[Spaniard]

It was a Warsaw Grouper check the thread here;

[ame="http://www.spearboard.com/showthread.php?t=18867"]Do I shoot or do I run!!! - Spearboard Spearfishing Community[/ame]

 

[josedesucre]

Thanks for the link, Spaniard. There were 35 pages of comments, photos and reactions there. Of course I couldn't read them all, but I can tell that those guys are really experts at what they do and are very well equipped. They are commercial spearfishers, so that's their business. The diver that shot the big warsaw, Dan McMahon, declined to post the technical details of the dive out of concern that others might try it and get in trouble, but he said that they reached the bottom in three minutes, spent 7 minutes bottom time at 425 feet, began the ascent with a minute to spare, and then had more than one hour deco. Each diver had five tanks and regulators, with what I guess were different mixes of 02 and maybe one nitrox for the final deco.

 

[Amphibious]

this topic was debated on this board too. lets try to make sure this thread doesn;t get as heated as the last one.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I hesitate to even comment for fear it will rekindle the fire, but maybe I can give a little background and head off some questions.

On that Spearboard thread, I got myself into big trouble by asking if we were not just using better technology and techniques to chase the last surviving Warsaw grouper down at extreme depths. I was told that they were a deep water species in the first place, so we were hardly about to wipe them out.

I replied that I had shot a 100 pounder in just 60 or 80 feet of water (I forget the exact depth) when I was a flight student in Pensacola, FL in the early 60s, and that wasn't exactly deep water.

From there it degenerated into Dan's friends calling me all sorts of names and getting really nasty without really addressing my comment about getting one in relatively shallow water.

However, a couple of marine biologists sent me private messages saying that they were afraid to get into the public fight, but wanted to explain it to me. They said that Warsaws truly are a deep water species, but are occasionally taken in shallower water on the East Coast of Florida where there are upwellings of cold water into the shallows. This made sense, since my Warsaw was taken in the middle of winter, and I recall being very cold in my wet suit. Besides the possibility that this fish just hadn't read the memo about the depth at which it was supposed to hang out, the cold may have accounted for my lucky catch.

I realize that this post won't satisfy every question such as "why shoot such a magnificent fish" but I just wanted to say that there may well be plenty of them down there if you can just get that deep. Whatever else you may think, it took a lot of skill and planning to make that dive, and I doubt that very many of us are going to be down there wiping out the last Warsaws.

 

[josedesucre]

You are right Bill, I for one never going to go that deep just to shoot a fish. I saw the posts criticizing you, including the one by Scott Zeagle boasting that he had blocked you. I believe another member, also named Bill, was the only one that try to defend your right to defend yourself, but he was ignored. That, and the general attitude of most of the other guys there discouraged me from registering as member of that board.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I think that thread showed Spearboard at its very worst, and was not entirely representative. A lot of people just felt very defensive and felt that spearfishing on scuba was under attack.

Since that time, Spearboard has changed ownership, and while it is still more wild and woolly than DB, personal attacks have been largely brought under control and the entire tone has improved.

And I should hasten to add that Dan, the guy who shot the fish, never engaged in the fight and didn't even seem to bear me a grude. I'm told he is a real gentleman, and I've even received a couple of PMs from him on other subjects- equipment and such- in which he seemed very gracious. It wasn't his fault that others got so nasty trying to defend him.

 

[josedesucre]

Well, I went back there and register, after all. Surfed around a lil bit and saw they do have a lot of interesting stuff for spearos. Noticed some familiar names, also.

 

[Spaniard]

Yes, I think there are always going to be a few big-mouths anywhere you post; if mods. do a good job then it usually gets sorted out. We all have opinions and so long as they are expressed correctly and with respect there shouldn't be issues. There will always be 'hot' threads though :crutch

 

[yugyug]

It actually looks bigger than it really is because of a photographic trick: it is placed closer to the camera!

no, it really is that big!!

I remember reading the spearboard thread when the fish was caught and found it very interesting. At first I was a bit disgusted as I felt spearfishing on scuba is unfair, but after reading about the intense technical preparation, the risk, the depth, the use of trimix, I changed my mind. As others have said, this not a kind of fishing accessible to anyone - it is an extreme frontier.

some more quick bits about it, for those that don't read the whole spearboard thread.
- Dan was diving on a sunken battleship when he caught the grouper. I think he was actually standing on the deck of the ship when he fired his spear. He used a handheld spike with a powerhead on it to kill the fish, and floated it to the surface by inflating it with his tank gas. The fish was caught to be commercially sold and I imagine would've fetched quite a bit. Warsaw grouper are a prized table fish, which has, or will, lead them to be overfished (scientists believe) by deep sea bottom trawling.

 

[lizardland]

Would anyone who knows please post what is involved in doing a 141 meters dive, including gas mix, dc time, total time, etc?

The deco time would be in the region of:

90m for 1min Tx10/65 RT:16min
87m for 1min Tx10/65 RT:17min
84m for 1min Tx10/65 RT:18min
81m for 1min Tx10/65 RT:19min
78m for 1min Tx10/65 RT:20min
75m for 1min Tx10/65 RT:21min
72m for 1min Tx10/65 RT:22min
69m for 1min Tx10/65 RT:23min
66m for 1min Tx10/65 RT:24min
63m for 1min Tx10/65 RT:25min
60m for 1min Tx18/40 RT:26min
57m for 1min Tx18/40 RT:27min
54m for 1min Tx18/40 RT:28min
51m for 1min Tx18/40 RT:29min
48m for 1min Tx18/40 RT:30min
45m for 1min Tx18/40 RT:31min
42m for 2min Tx18/40 RT:33min
39m for 1min Tx18/40 RT:34min
36m for 2min EAN36 RT:36min
33m for 2min EAN36 RT:38min
30m for 3min EAN36 RT:41min
27m for 4min EAN36 RT:45min
24m for 5min EAN36 RT:50min
21m for 5min EAN50 RT:55min
18m for 6min EAN50 RT:61min
15m for 10min EAN50 RT:71min
12m for 12min EAN50 RT:83min
9m for 17min EAN50 RT:100min
6m for 67min O2 RT:167min

for 10min on the bottom and the descent which would take about 4-5min alone. Each additional 1min on the bottom would increase the deco time by about 20min. Deepest I've done was 125m and that really does feel a long way from home, especially as it was in Loch Ness in Scotland, which, unlike Florida, is cold and dark. It's also very expensive to do on open circuit scuba. On a rebreather it's not really any more expensive than a 40m dive.

I thought spearing on scuba was illegal in most places?

Cheers,

Stuart

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Maybe its illegal in most places, but not in the United States.

In California where I live, most serious spearfishermen freedive, although scuba is legal.

But in the Southeastern US, diving on scuba is the norm.

 

[josedesucre]

Thanks, Lizarland. Wow, I knew it was a very technical dive. Of course, the guys who did it are profesionals. They carried five tanks each! No wonder the went down in only three minutes!