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A Finswimmer wannabe dilemma

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
@finSailor , have you tried contacting local scuba/deep diving clubs or stores and ask them if they know of pools which have hours for deep divers or swimmers with special equipment? Or which pool they utilize to train/certify their students? You might get lucky that way.
 
Thanks Sakina, I know those few ones. However, those hours/locations are not within my reach for practical reasons. I contacted the pool management of my nearest swimming hall, and unofficially they allow bifins if no-one comes to complain. However, they are not willing to admin monofins unless they see one..and I do not have one yet ;(

The reason why I was after Lunocet was exactly this - it is so narrow that I trust I could convince them to allow me to dive with that. And yes, I've had my days and workouts with bifins already, and I'm eager to try something new.. Too bad Mr. Ciamillo is not delivering.
 
Reactions: sakina z
My understanding is that Lunocets are shipping daily (finally).

If pool mgmt sees one, I'm sure there won't be an issue, as the wide part (flukes) are made of rubber.

They will actually likely be intrigued by it and think its super cool. That's been my experience at least... Consistently across different pools and groups of ppl.
 
Thanks @Apneaddict, but you are deadly wrong with "shipping daily".

Ordered mine (just Classic) on 13th Aug. Paid first through Ted's old system. He said he was not using that system anymore and promised refund (which he never did). Paid second time (as Ted request) through his PayPal invoice. Ted said he shipped the unit on 16th Oct, and sent tracking number. USPS says today that they have not yet received physical package, just electronical pre-info. Ted promised 2 weeks ago to send a replacement. And nothing since that, no replies to emails as usually.

First payment got refunded after 2 months battle with my bank. Currently I have lost my legal right to get refund for Boa cycling shoes I bought for this purpose (actually based on your article, @Apneaddict). I have another good pair for actual cycling, so they are now lost investment. Not Ted's fault, of course. Shouldn't believe that he could deliver.

Currently I'm going through yet another fight with my bank to get refund for 2nd payment I made to Ted. I really have lost my hopes with him. Sure, order Luno and you'll be expert in eCommerce dispute processes, that's my conclusion.

All I ever wanted is to start next step in freediving with the gear that would have made the difference. I wish all the best to Ted, and give him all the credit as a ground-breaking designer. I fear for him as a entrepreneur, that way of working must be exhausting in the long run, and not good for business either.
 
Reactions: baiyoke and Kars
Fin Sailor,

I feel for you man! I did know Ted's deliveries and communication where very poor, but your experience sounds like the worst I've heard.
I and many others have served Ted several post offering encouragement, clarity, suggestions why and how to get those parts improved. Like I said in there I hope Ted finds his creative mind to change those 'paper' parts, like he is improving his product.

On the pool admittance of monofins.
In my experience it revolves mostly about trust. Do the lifeguards trust you to wield that decapitation device in their pool?
So when in doubt, you're not inspiring trust into the pool staff, you're making them doubt the safety more.

What to do to get in with your fin?

Have a first name relation with the pool staff.
Have a good standing with the other pool users, bring some joy and decency to them, many elderly folk are starving to have a chat with a stranger, and they feel so much better receiving some genuine attention. When the public loves your presence, how can the liveguard not go along?

My monofin is a big hyperfin. It has a big rubber wings. Which if I hit anyone will be like rubber. I have no fear of hitting others, and I can report I've not hit even a handful of people in 9 (!) years of pool monofin use. None of the hits where much more then gentle touches. I think my approach makes a big difference in reducing the chances of hitting people.
- Go to the pool at quiet hours.
- Use the faster or fast lane.
- Do warm ups without fins.
- Do strength etc. with pool bi-fins.
- Explain to others how you're going to swim underwater, so they know what to expect.
- Be empathetic to other swimmers needs, seek win-win solutions.
- Use the monofin only when there is enough space. If the pool is 2m all the length, then it's very likely you can use the fin a 100% of the swim session. If you pool has a shallower standing side, like mine, then I cut my monofin time to only the last 30-15 minutes, so I'm not bothering other users too long.
- I time my dives with the surface swimmers in mind, overtaking them at the deep end, and making sure I do not surface in their vicinity. Young swimmers are less scared when they see a 'shadow' pass underneath, and fast swimmers understand our training needs better then the 'social' swimmers.

With some time and gradual introduction of new toys, you can stretch the rules with ease.
Furthermore my presence and reputation allows me to do things like use neck weight, monofins, and all the equipment I want to use. Because the public and lifeguards like and trust me.
 
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Reactions: baiyoke, sakina z, REVAN and 1 other person
@Kars, thanks! I can sense long experience and wisdom behind your advices. Yeah, I'll put that Luno experience aside and hmm.. time to leave my laptop and do some workout in the pool. Just DNF and gradually increasing bifin time in the pool, as advised. Introducing monofin to local pool some time later in the future..

Happy diving, folks.
 
Reactions: Kars
Thank you Fin Sailor, indeed 9 years of freediving and mono finning, and being a lifeguard for some time.
In the Eindhoven Olympic pool we had this experience with staff and management. The new manager got wind of our activities and we had a meeting to tell us we could not use our toys. The lifeguards had to follow their managers instruction. They did so very reluctantly, informing us we were not allowed to use the fins and weights any more. So we laid low for a few weeks, maybe a month, then continued as usual (all toys) with the acceptance and help of the live guards who knew we were safe and very social to the other swimmers. They loved us more then their bitchy boss. No problems since.
The past two years I have not been able to visit that pool regularly, but when I do I'm a very welcome guest, by the lifeguards and regular swimmers, and they want to catch up with me and my endeavours.

A monofin is like a nice dog, everyone wants to pet it, and talk with it's owner.

Lifeguards are often bored, and a freediver and monofiner will bring some joy and colour to their lives.

I hope that all those who are having trouble or doubts with monofin use in pools read this, and have a long prosperous mono fin life


Love, Courage and Water,

Kars
 
I feel inspired to tell a little story:

When Walter was visiting last summer and we were testing the DOL-Fin Orca2 and Pilot prototypes in the pool, we were not paying enough attention to each other and swam from opposite ends of the pool at the same time. The result was a near head-on underwater collision in the shallow part of the pool. His fin blade came down with full force near the my right side shoulder blade and was drug along my bare back down to my waist. The result, I stopped to see what happened and make sure Walter was okay. In this case, only I got hit, and it was about as bad as I think it could get. It was a surprise, but it did not hurt or draw blood; nothing of the sort.

People have this impression that the DOL-Fin's foil is going to make sashimi out of anything it comes into contact with, but I don't think that impression is warranted. The leading edge is blunt and the fin tips are soft and flexible. The trailing edge of the fin is also softely rounded. I don't think it is the dangerous weapon that some people think it is. I won't say that it is impossible to hurt someone with it, but if you are being conscious and courteous of others surface swimming in the pool, I think the risks of actually hurting anyone with the DOL-Fin's fin blade are exceedingly small.

In comparison, I think it is probably possible to injure someone with any fiberglass or carbon composite fin blade as they can often develop sharp knife like edges from scraping against the pool's plaster walls. In spite of that, if you are being conscious and courteous of others surface swimming in the pool, I think the risks of injuring others are still exceedingly small. Personally though, I recommend using some sand paper to keep the edges of a composite fin blade softly rounded, because from what I have seen, it is far more likely to cut you, its owner, than anyone else.
 
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Reactions: Kars
@Kars

I wish i cld train w u! It looks like u have lots of good monofin wisdom to share. What mono do u use?
 
You're welcome over here in Netherlands

I use a tailor made hyperfin, made by: Hyperfins (Yes I know confusing name). At the moment their website seems down: http://www.hyperfins.ru

I'm in for freediving /monofin buddies, who want to train regularly, sadly I've not found many close by.
I'm teaching a pair of old snorkelling ladies next Tuesday, just for fun, but I doubt they'll every get enough drive to reach for higher performance levels, and be able to secure my dives.

If you have a fibreglass blade without wings, you can use some glue and put a rubber around the leading edges, and prevent any ankel cuts hitting people walking in the water. Sanding it round also works. The trailing edge does not need protection since I'm swimming forward.
A few weeks ago I bumped into my friend on the surface, both doing chest crawl, it was a painful hard collision. My friend also bumped a week later twice into another swimmer. I suspect collisions are much more common on the surface, then with divers on the bottom. Provided they time and orient their dives well.
 
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Reactions: sakina z
Just to add to the reflections: If you want a mono of course you should have one. But to put it into perspective, a few months after I began freediving I bought one... And when I do specific dyn training I use a mono. But now three years after I often use smaller and smaller fins to the point where it looks silly with some tiny orange childlike flip-flop-fins.... Because as we advance we sometimes recognize that less is more.... They are easy to transport and good for your technique.... So in itself normal cheap bifins are I my view great for training... Except for the specific task of learning your specific mono...
 
Reactions: sakina z and Kars
I think I still want a mono fin, sure. l'll order one, but first I need to fight my money back from my bank, and they (and PayPal) can then continue the fight with @Ted Ciamillo . I can not (mentally) afford yet another frustrating order-fight-wait process simultaneously. I'll get back to you guys for an advice when it's time to see what else than Luno is out there.
 
Today, I met with Ron Smith who kindly let me try one of his newest prototypes in the Dol-fin family. Ron was extremely informative and generous with sharing info about his product and how it works. He asked many questions to determine what my needs were, trying to determine if the Dol-fin would meet them and if so, which of the Dol-fins would work best for me. Ron was also very helpful when it came to technique, sharing tips.

I am a bit of an odd case as I surface swim but I do so without a snorkel. I also don't put my arms forward -- due to a shoulder surgery I had this year. In addition, I like to monoswim longer distances 1.5mi to 6+mi.

The experience was awesome: I absolutely loved swimming with the Dol-fin! Makes the kicking effortless. The foot sockets were so comfie. I have wide feet --remnants of webbed feet in a previous life? I wonder.. So it s always an issue for me to find fins, shoes that fit. It was a bit challenging to adapt to the balancing of the blade at first but with practice it can be managed. In fact I did much better maneuvering the blade in just about 20mn that I swam with the Dol-fin.

While I cannot acquire this little gem now, I am definitely going to seriously look into it when my budget allows it. Soon hopefully.

Here s a vid.
Thanks Ron for taking the time during your mini vacation.
 
The only surface swimming I can tolerate with a mono is while on my back and the fin fully submerged.

Kudos to Ron for making the time for a mono enthusiast... Even if you DO like to breathe....
 
Reactions: sakina z
I dunno ApneAddict.. I am becoming more and more intrigued by NOT breahing and the whole apnea experience. I find myself testing my breathing limits lately. I don't feel my legs after I manage to mono swim a whole 25 yrds length w/o coming yo the surface.
 
For most freedivers have their body transition into lactic mode after 50m - 75m.
If you sprint it's a bit faster, and more contrasting.

Learning how keep relaxed while swimming is the key to longer dynamics.

Question, can you do flip turns with that pilot foil?
 
A challenging technique you have, looks like it works pretty well, you covered that pool length quickly. Can you use your arms to stroke at all? That would open up some lower exertion surface technique.

"I don't feel my legs after I manage to mono swim a whole 25 yrds length"

What exactly does that mean? As in you have no feeling? No burn? Any tingle in your arms or legs?
 
Kars, thanks for the info re lactic mode. That's interesting. I'll do some research/reading about that. I seem to get it after barely 23m, a far cry from the 50-75m you described. Any tips, video links which describes ways to keep relaxed would be appreciated if you know of any, thanks. I'll google that too. As for flip turns with the Pilot, I never managed to learn to do them (I'm mostly a self taught swimmer) so I don't know. Maybe a question for Ron?

Thanks, Cdavis. I can't swim with my arms much due to shoulder surgery. I actually enjoy swimming with my core muscles much more than with my back/arm muscles, so to be frank, I don't really try. As for the sensation in my legs, not sure how to explain it other than if feels like they're paralyzed or very weak. A bit like when you get really scared, the feeling you get in your legs after the shock (like when you avoid a car accident for example.) Or after a very long exhausting run. I think Kars is spot on. Lactic mode is it.
 
Believe it or not, tha'ts good. Its called "dead legs." It sure sounds like you are getting an early and strong dive reflex, blood shift away from the legs. That almost has to be genetic and could make you a very good freediver.
 
Reactions: sakina z
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