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A question about lined suits?

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.


hi all!

I agree, my elios reversible smoothskin/nylon suit "custom made" is the warmest suit that i ever warn. Like the man said, i have to let some water in to cool down and no need as yet "considering real cold water 40 de.F. + " to wear the smoothskin in. It's nice to have the best of both worlds.

chow:
 
Anyone tried both Diveskin and Elios and can give a direct comparison from experience.

Anyone got an idea of price to UK for a MTM Elios econoline 5mm nylon out cammo. No prices on their site. Diveskin seems to be about £130 inc delivery.

Found a quote that lots of modern spearo suits don't last long due to compression. The softness and stretchyness has the side effect of thinning. That's definitely what's happened to my immersion 5mm cammo. It was and is soft and strechy but not it's paper thin, cold and rips easily.

Is the neoprene used for scuba suits the same as spearo suits but just with nylon both sides? I have been reading up but if you ignore all the speacialist smooth out/slickskin etc then standard neoprene with open cell inside and nylon jersy outside seems to be the standard spearo suit material.

Elios talk about high/med/low density neoprene but iit's hard to follow their explanation (originaly not written in English I guess).

Help.

Dave
 
Ok just my 2p; bearing in mind i took my advice from the knowledgeable people on this good forum before ordering a MTM Elios 5/6mm suit...
When i started last year I was wearing a 3mm surfing wetsuit, no hood, until November last year - i almost 'got used' to the relative cold of a few hours in the water, when my elios turned up (and i worked out how to put it on ;-) ) it was positively balmy thru most of the winter months. i think you get used to the water temperature to some extent, so can 'tough' it out when that's what you know and are used to. maybe that's why you remember the old lined suits as being so good?
Have to agree that the hassle of lubing/wetting the suit before wearing is a pain tho.
Some of the new surfing winter wetsuits look very impressive and clearly some good technology in there - no zips, one piece = no flushing, which has to be the most important point.
 
No, the neoprene used is different. Scuba suits use harder neoprenes to prevent compression.

I've used both Elios & Diveskin suits, MTM. Elios, even in Heiwa MD, was noticably softer than the diveskin and fitted much better. For me, it's a no contest. For prices, expect a custom elios to cost ~170-230 euro, not including shipping. Anything else?
 
I am still not convinced that a smooth skin interior is warmer than a nylon lined suit & even if it is, if it it that much warmer to justify the short life!
I do however realise that MTM & quality neoprene is the way to go.
Fairly sure I am going to order a custom made nylon lined suit but not sure where from, as yet.
 
I emailed Elios and Diveskin this request.

Hi

I am hoping to order a new wetsuit. I am looking for a suit that I can use for spearing and occasionally scuba diving. I want a spearo style suit with hood attached no zip jacket and long john trousers. I want it made from green/brown cammo nylon outside, 5mm thick, with a nylon interior, made to measure (custom fit). I am not sure what type of neoprene is best.

Is the neoprene for scuba suits the same as for spearfishing suits?

Because of the scuba (max 30metres) would I need a medium density neoprene and would this still be okay for a spearfishing suit?

Would I need wrist and ankle seals as it is a double lined suit?

What would the suit cost including any seals, also knee, elbow and loading pads?

I live in Guernsey, Channel Islands, near the uk. This is a zero tax zone outside of the EU. Shipping cost would be similar to the UK.

Thanks

Dave *****
 
Reactions: foxfish
Got a reply from Diveskin

"Hi Dave

The material Im using is the same for both scuba and spearfishing suits.
Its Japanese Heiwa, medium density.
Ankle,wrist and hood seals would be essential for your sea temperatures.
Suit will cost $189
Seals will cost $30
Pads will coat $30
Shipping will cost $30.
Total $279
Since the suit is shipped from Greece in the EU, there's no extra tax applied.

Thanks,
Spiros"

That's £160


No reply from Elios yet but found Spearo Daves site and he's an agent for Elios in the Uk apparently. He has prices.

APNEASUB CUSTOM SUIT Nylon 00.00, MTM 20.00, Nylon Camo 30.00, longjonh 15.00, Load pad 10.00, 5mm 150.00 £ 225.00 customm 1 £ 225.00

Pre-shipping Grand Total = £ 225.00
Probably add £20 for shipping. Not sure about VAT.

Dave
 
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If it helps i use an Elios suit. Open cell (smooth skin) inside with neoprean outside. When i started thats what the freedivers spearos said to get. I feel really comfy and dont find lubing up before a dive a pain. I tend to keep a drinks bottle with a washing up liquid and water in there the whole time. If they told me it would make me do turds of pure gold i would have believed that too as they know what they are talking about,....but i do know the down side! They rip really easily I have always used neoprean on the outside due to my friends recommending me to as i didn't want to replace my suit on a regular basis. The neoprean, obviously, gives the suit more support. All it takes is the slightest bit of damage combinded with a little pull when taking the suit off or on and it goes. For 1 of my suits a friend has had 2 open cell (tis a good job he doesn't pay full price for them.

Best i can say is after diving with a winter surf suit and an open cell (smooth skin inside) suit i will stick to diving with my elios. Avoid totally open cell but if you are already happy with what you are usuing stick with it. Fear change!
 
Reactions: Old Man Dave
just a small note on being too warm if your trying to dive deep, it is so in my case but maybe not in yours: I don't have hardly any dive reflex if i'm too warm in a suit. cold flushing and facial imersion helps. I think you need to maintain a balance, and leaving the water, say if your typical dive session is 3 hours, its OK to feel a little cold.
 
I reckon durability is one of the most important aspects in a suit. Some of you will remember diving in suits as hard and flexible as an old tire. They weren’t very comfortable but lasted for years and could stand abuse well while being (almost) reasonably warm.
We all agree that a new suit is always much warmer than a similar old one. The main question is how often you want to replace it. If you are willing to invest in a new suit every other year or so, open cell ones are great as they are warmer than nylon ones. However open cell ones are more expensive and wont last nearly as long as nylon ones.


If we were to compare two well used suits, one with nylon on the inside and the other an open cell one, i wonder which one we would find warmer...
 
Reactions: Old Man Dave
Dave, I think you've already discovered the biggest difference between Elios and Diveskin - response to emails!
Spiros has got to be the world's number 1 for customer service. Emails answered within hours and the feeling of talking to someone who knows his stuff is a rare treat.

The only "proper" spearo suit I've ever owned is the Diveskin one I have now but I've used a motley collection of suits for surfing and snorkelling over the years including a semi dry scuba jacket I found in a junk shop that had smoothskin around the wrists and hood edges and worked very well at keeping water out, although the 7mm high density neoprene meant that I could hardly move.
 
Reactions: Old Man Dave
Hi Dave,

Having used nylon both sides since year dot, I switched to nylon outer and smooth cell inner last year. I found it much more comfortable and easier to move. I have an Elios suit that got from Dave Thomasson Spearguns by Spearo uk ltd finest supplier of speargun, monofins, speargun and freediving equipment I use a 5mm all year round, even in Feb, just I have to get out when my hands and feet freeze! And I use hot water to put the thing on in the winter, and use cheap Asda 30p per bottle hair conditioner mixed in! I found that whatever nylon innner suits I used, even putting Vasaline on my legs, (no comments please ) rubbed behind my knees after about 4 hours, and when I was in 6hr comps, that got very sore...I have not got rubbed in the smooth inner at all.
 
Reactions: Old Man Dave
I have used both nylon and open cell suits - agree about the points on wear and tear. But I am a real wimp about the cold. I have Elios 5mm and 7mm suits smoothskin and nylon. Even with them I still use a 1mm neoprene vest to stop even the smallest amount of flushing between the jacket and the trousers. With this combination I can stay warm in all the water temp in the UK - from 4degC diving in a lake in Feb this year with Scottie3030 (7mm top & bottom open cell inside, nylon outside) through to 20degC in the height of summer (5mm open cell smoothskin.)

I will not be going smoothskin again cause of the ease with which I break them - but the great thing about them is the superb flexibility you get which takes alot of the effort out of the constant diving we do and moving around on the bottom. They are also meant to dry out faster on a boat than nylon with less evaporation-meaning you shouldn't get so cold.

My POV would be that if I could wear nylon inside and out: without getting cold, or have the suit be any reason for negatively impacting my spearing - then I would stick with it - it's cheaper, more hard wearing and no lube to remember - if it aint broke don't fix it...
 
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Reactions: Old Man Dave
smoothskin jacket and nylon trousers is the way forward. The smoothskin jacket is realy warm you just have to be a little carefull with it. Mine has a few little tears but nothing serious, i have used it all season and im always creeping around in holes and it has lasted well. Smooth kin trousers are nice aswell but wearing nylon trousers is better i think as they are tough and dont rip.

My suit is elios MTM 5mm, Im hard i dont wear a 1mm vest under my jacket all winter and i got no natural thermal protection ha ha.
 
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Reactions: James T and Old Man Dave
I started out, maybe six or seven years ago, with a 3ml surf suit and a Scubapro jacket with hood attatched and zip front. Water entered the suit as soon as I entered the water and in the early part of the year I'd be shaking with cold after 45 minutes.
I've had three spearo suits since, and still have all three. First was a Picasso "Apnos". This was-is open cell inside, 7ml and seemed like medium density and was warm.It got fingernail damage easily but was tough otherwise and did repair and patch easily when damaged. I was 11.5 stone when I used it and it's too tight now but still serviceable, though patched on the crotch where my weightbelt retainer rubbed it. It was size "52".
Next was a Picasso "Ghost Termic" Made of 7ml "yamamoto 45" neoprene. It was size "54" and although very warm, I had to take in the back seam of the trousers a little for a better fit. The soft "yamamoto 45" damages quite easily on the inside.
My present suit is an Elios made to measure 5ml "Heiwa medium density" camo nylon outside, "newblack" (a closed cell finish) inside. Its warm, comfortable, fits perfectly and seems reasonably tough.
In winter I'll probably switch jackets back to the 7ml "Ghost Termic", but not until I have to, as the soft neoprene compresses on dives and you either feel heavy at depth, or have trouble leaving the surface, depending on how much weight you wear.
I think you probably remember the old nylon inside suits as warm because you were so much younger then but, as you say, wrist and ankle seals work well now, so they should make a big difference. I hope you try the diveskin with seals. I'll be interested in your findings as I'd prefer not to have to lube up.
 
I do the same as matt - with nylon trousers and smoothskin top (plus the 1mm vest to keep the old bones warmer.) Unless Im on boat in the summer when I go smooth all over.

Oh and Matt - I wish I was as hard as you:martial I've even been looking at these ridiculous thermal heating packs. Matt - what do you eat to stay warm in a 5mm in the winter???
 
spearheads said:
smoothskin jacket and nylon trousers is the way f
Click to expand...

nice pictures in that gallery. i see you have the cressi team ultraspan (assuming thats you in the pix) how has it held up? mine is in good shape but going cold quick after about a year of 6 to 8 x 3 hours dives per month
 

Lots of aerobics on my dive hunter bouy when swimming to spots. flask of tea on it aswell keeps the urine levels up ha ha. Most divers in the UK have a stomach on them i think hahah.
 
Thanks for all your replies, quite mixed opinions really!
Dave is in need of a suit more desperately than I am but my choice would be a Diveskin as suggested with the seals etc.
No huge deal if it is not quite as warm as hoped, the suit will still be usable & worthy of the experiment, after all we managed very well with our suits from years gone by, so it is not really that great a risk.
 
By no means think this is informative! , as have little expereince diving compared to most people here but heres my take on it all!

Surfer for years so used to lined suits. Some of ours now come with what they call fire skin! Almost fleece like. Some of the suits include rubbery panels more similar to spearo suits. These are usually on areas that do not need to flex as much. Better wind stopping properties. Most of these suits are easy to get on and are stood on, stretched, yanked etc. Designs have focused on zip entry and these have got smaller! They are so flexible and comfy and I'd much rather wear one over a spearo suit!

BUT...

Spearo suits. 1st suit was one of cressis, with a smooth inside, but a silvery coating. You guys introduced me to hair conditioner to get into it! The 1st time I got stuck, and almost had a panic attack! It was seriously scarey 1st expereince of these suits. But they are SOOO much warmer.

As this began to rip and tear got an ebay special. A new but OLDER cressi. No lining, just the raw bondage type neoprene. I think easier to get on but its 1 size up from my original and a bit big which I notice. Its had to do for now.

The only thing I dislike about these suits now is you can't try them on, at least around here so you take a chance and order the size you think.

I am looking for a new spearo suit, so hopefully some end of season bargins around.

if you read this far it was hopefully worth reading. Just having a ramble about something I am no expert on!

oh and finally. I think I smell more of Piss when I surf compared to when I spear. I do piss more in the spearo suit, which I think is due to the squeeze on dives. But I definitly smell worse as a surfer. I never piss in a new suit until at least half an hour of wearing it when i give up and think "hell, its going to happen sometime... so why not!"

My wife tells me I smell, but hey, I reckon "for sickness and in health" covers it all. Maybe this way she won't notice me getting old.
 
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