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A question for Lingcod hunters

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A

AB Diver

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May 3, 2005
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What type of gun is best for lingcod hunting in holes. I think that in the low visibility of Norcal my Rabitech 110 stealth carbon (which I have come to dearly LOVE) is too much gun.

I want a quality gun that is accurate and powerful enough to penetrate lingcod in holes but still able to take the inevitable direct hit to a rock. (and durable to handle my ungraceful water entries) I have become quite fond of the Euro style railguns lately and was thinking of maybe something in the 80cm range???

Do you all think that this is a good choice?

Thanks, Ken

P.S. price is also a major consideration
 
Never shot or even seen a lingcod other than in picture form (I live the wrong side of the pond) but I know a thing or two about catching fish in holes.

We have a style of fishing that involves looking for fish in holes in the reef. The only 2 target fish species are wrasse and conger eels. Although I no longer do this I have done a lot of this type of fishing in the past. Wrasse grow to about 10lb and conger eels over 100lb. Wrasse are very akin to snapper and grouper although a bit smaller in terms of maximum size they average 5lb. Conger eels are notorious for their strength and tenacity.

I would only ever use a heavy duty compressed air gun for this type of fishing. Length would be 60 to 90 cm and a double barb head on an 8mm shaft would be my choice.

The main advantage of these guns are; high power at short range (loads of "punch"), easy to handle (you can grab the barrel, use 2 hands, fire with the barrel alongside your head - useful when hunting narrow holes), clean lines (only use 1 or 2 wraps of heavy line). rugged construction (band guns are easily damaged on rocks/reefs, etc, etc.

I could go on, but as far as I am concerned you can't beat an air gun for reefing.

When this type of topic has come up before it seems that in America pneumatic guns are not popular but in the UK and all over the Mediterranean they are the gun of first choice for many spearo's.

Dave
 
Reactions: Mr. X
AB Diver
The gun you are using at the moment seems very long for hole fishing. I changed to rubber guns ten years ago after using air guns for the last twenty. Short air guns (Medi Stens etc) were ideal for fishing in the mainly dirty waters of Sussex but because of the totally different actions I had to come up with a different plan. I got over the problem by cutting a Picasso 75cm down to 68cm and fitting it with 22mm rubbers for a 60cm. I then drilled the centre boss out of a three pronged titanium head and slipped it on to a 6.5mm spear so the centre point is longer than the two side ones. When you blunt the spear the titanium head can be knocked down a little more to allow sharpening. There is no centre barb it is not needed but the two outside barbs stop the fish spinning or ripping off I had a 3.5-kilo bass today April 7th using this gun. The largest so far with this gun, a bass of 13lbs last year with a headshot from 3mts away. Hope this helps with your problem.
 
Reactions: Mr. X and Old Man Dave
The use of trident heads is interesting. Until recently I would have never have considered one but last year I watched a DVD of a french diver using one to catch bass, pollack and cod. What struck me was the fact that as the spear never passes completely through a fish but stops within a few inches then all of the energy is transfered to the fish from the spear. I believe some people call them paralysers because they stun the fish with this inparted energy. They do of course limit the range of the gun. Last year my brother experinented with a "stopper" six inches back fron the spear tip so as to prevent further penetration of the spear and to stun the fish with the spear energy.

Eric, 3 metres must have been a hell of a shot with such a short gun and the trident head, nice one. You slightly lost me as to why you changed from pneumatic to band. Was it the range issue or just the particular conditions of bass in holes that seems to be a perculiarity of sussex?

Dave
 
I think that I would rather stay with the band guns. For one I have been told that a pnuematic gun requires more maintnance and are not as durable to flailing around on rocks on my entries. Not to mention ease of use, I think that it would be too confusing. . . and aren't they more expensive???

Thanks for the replies guys, Ken
 
Pneumatics are tough as old boots, much tougher than band guns. They require almost no maintenance and are super reliable. Band guns are simpler but pneumatics have been refined over many years and have suprisingly few parts. They are also cheap. A 60cm beuchat with variable power switch (another advantage) is in the DB shop for 90 euros. A euro is close to a US dollar so cheap they definitely are. Short air guns with thick spears are very easy to load and fire.

Well this is all only my opinion anyway and I've made my point so the only way your gonna know for sure is to try one. I'd offer to come and demonstrate mine to you but you'd have to pay my fare. Lets see 4000 miles each way at say 50 cents a mile .... .

Whatever happens let us know what you decide.

Good Huntin'

Dave
 
I'll concur on the sturdiness of Pneumos. The fragile argument is an urban legend. If you are stuck on band guns though a 75cm euro with one band is plenty good for ling. If you want to go smaller I'd really suggest a pneumatic - 70 is a pretty nice size for that area. If you've got some money to spend you could get a Riffe MT0 - really nice little gun with great flexibility in terms of range, bands, shafts etc. Can't beat the pneumos for bang for the buck though.
 
I guess it's just the mystery of not knowing how they work and having never seen one, let alone shot one, that makes me leery of buying one.

Thanks for the input and I will continue to do research to find the perfect one. . .

Later, Ken

P.S. Old man Dave, I am in Balad Iraq at the moment so that would cut down on the cost at least a little wouldn't it???
 
eric aqua said:
...I had a 3.5-kilo bass today April 7th using this gun. The largest so far with this gun, a bass of 13lbs last year with a headshot from 3mts away. Hope this helps with your problem.
Click to expand...
Good to hear from a spearo further along the coast -- I just commented the other day that we haven't heard anything from Sussex, Hampshire & Kent recently. Those are super fish -- and the first Bass I have heard of speared from the mainland this year. What sort of visibility are you shooting fish in (encountered very poor viz in Dorset this week - <1m and <0.5m)?

AB Diver, Iraq? I guess Vegas would prepare you for the weather. Take care out there. BTW as Foxfish (OMD's brother) recently pointed out - a 90cm mamba pneumatic is the same length as a 70cm band gun, but with considerably more power/range than a 90cm band gun (making it an ideal all rounder for the UK, covering the full range of normal uses). However, I still like band-guns...the simplicity is big part of the appeal (like a bow vs. a gun). Eric, I am also curious as to your reason for changing to band guns -- although it certainly seems to be working for you!

This is a favourite picture I found on the web, showing a guy called Pablo and a Ling Cod shot he shot with a short Rob Allen railgun (70cm?) [click on the pic to enlarge it], I think in the Seattle area (pity I never thought of spearfishing when I lived there).
 

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Most people here on the West Coast who hunt lings use a 70-90cm Euro gun. I have heard that a lot of people like the Rob Allen railguns. However, it also seems that the Hammerhead guns are also becoming popular.
 
BTW apparently you can get RAs down to 50cm, although it might require a custom order (which they do accomodate).
Image:


Darn no image link button on this thread either
 
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Wow, a 50cm gun is pretty small? I don't think that I would like one that little.

That is a pretty sweet boogie board setup going on there. I will have to make one like that someday. I think that i'm going to get an 80cm railgun of some sort.

Thanks for all the input fellas!
 
Part of a story called (The Twilight Zone) that I wrote for the BSA mag Crystal Clear a few years ago explaining one of the reasons why I changed from air to rubber guns.

Next comps at home Sussex, won this one plenty of times, quite fancy my chances, been using rubber guns for two years now but this is Bognor in dirty viz. so I better get out the Mede Sten with the trident head. This is more like it get the gun out the night before and check if it needs more air, start pumping and the hissing starts, turn the gun upside down hissing stops, fully pumped load old spear put it against the door sill and slowly pull the trigger, Hisssss. F**K. Take gun to bits, by this time the oil is running off my elbows and ruined one more of my best shirts. At last working perfectly, this is what it should be like the night before a comp.

The morning of the dive, I put my boat in; as a safety boat for the twenty-fifth Sussex national in a row, boy do I need a rest from that, then amble out to sea to one of my favorite rocks. Laying on the bottom in three foot viz. a ten pound plus bass materializes in front of the rebuilt gun, will the trigger pull, will it hell, it swims slowly round me as I frantically bang the top of the gun with my free hand, until the fish slides of into the gloom. Six hours and one wrasse later I hand the gun over to Dave Phillips, in a moving ceremony, vowing never to use one again.

Sussex fishing is starting to wake up I had another bass of 4 kilos and a Black bream of 1.5 kilos yesterday 5th April.
 
Reactions: Mr. X

Good choice. I have a buddie here in So Cal who uses a 75cm Picasso for shore diving. He regularly takes cabezon with the gun. Cabezon is almost the same as a ling cod. They like to lay on rocks/reefs and in caves. Visibility is also usually pretty low (5-10ft).
 
eric aqua said:
...I hand the gun over to Dave Phillips, in a moving ceremony, vowing never to use one again.
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rofl That explains it. Is Dave Phillips a rival by any chance?
3 foot viz! I guess it is not such a hinderance if you are familiar with the terrain & have had fish there before. Still ...3ft.

Darn, this thread has got me thinking of short guns again. 60-70cm RA? 65cm Commanche. Mamba, 68cm Picasso,.... I've never seen anything bigger than a gold fish in such conditions though. I couldn't even see the weed & rocks last week.

AB Diver said:
.... I think that i'm going to get an 80cm railgun of some sort.
Click to expand...
Sounds good, as somebody pointed out the other day, 10cm more barrel will normally give you 50+cm more range.
 
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La Jolla is my primary diving grounds now that I am relocated to las vegas. . . although when I get out of Iraq in about 2 months I am going to make a trip home (Eureka) and plan on diving for abs and lings along the way. . . so I want to have a gun for the less than perfect visibility usually found around Fort Bragg.

I had a close encounter with a ling and a cabezon while diving with Spinal Tap in La Jolla last month. He went into a sink hole and didn't see a cabezon scoot out the other side. So when it went behind some grass and the surge covered it with the grass I went down and got about 4 ft away and as soon as the surge drew back it revealed the fish. But with his reactions quicker than mine he bolted the moment I had a clear shot. Oh well. Then I had a gimme on a lingcod but the season wasn't open. It must have been about a 25-30 pounder (by far the biggest i've seen). Was kind of suprised to see it and watched it leasurely swim along and then until diving into a hole and out came another fish. It was another lingcod of about 15 pounds. . . I was really suprised to see two big ones in the same area. I guess the biggest ling gets the best hole!
 
Reactions: Mr. X
AB Diver, good tale -- it sounds a bit like the Grouper spearing they do in the med. Spaghetti has posted some interesting articles on the equipment they use. (I think he usually takes a short gun & a long gun in the water with him.)
eric aqua said:
...I got over the problem by cutting a Picasso 75cm down to 68cm and fitting it with 22mm rubbers for a 60cm.
Click to expand...
Short 22mm rubbers...sounds like that would be pretty tough to load. I've been hesitant to replace the 16mm rubber on my 90cm gun with the 20mm rubber that I inadvertantly bought (16mm seems plenty powerful to me). I keep the spare 20mm in the freezer!
 
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I would suggest that you talk to the people in your local dive shop. I hunt lings and rockfish in N. calif. I have been using a pole spear for years, which worked fine until i ran into that 30lb ling last year. so now i carry a 24" phunmatic in a holster for just that occasion when i run into a big one again. You dont need a big gun because you can get right on top of the lings before you shoot. You just need the power to put the spear right through them.

I still use a pole spear because i have lots of smaller rockfish and perch to shoot.
 
Not to diss on pole spears or anything, they are a very effective method for small fish, but there is just something special about hunting fish with a gun. The skill, timing, and pulling the trigger on a fish is just something that can't be duplicated with a pole spear. It's just too much like gigging frogs to me.
 
I have worked up from a pole spear to a jbl sawed off mag xhd that I cut the butt off so it's about 43". I wouldn't go any bigger, but it's good for longer shots on olives and when the vis is good. I think it's a great gun for ling in my area. Thick bands, thick shaft, and almost indestructible. I haven't tried many other guns but here's what Ive seen: a mares air gun that's a year old and the seals are shot, one of those popular euro guns get the shaft bent in half in a hole and a smaller jbl that has the same range and power of a polespear. I like the looks of the Riffe MT 0 or 1 but I'm not crazy about the line configuration or the price.Plus, I 'm honing my skills more with the lower end gun so then I'll appreciate and enjoy a finer tuned instument when I get one.
God Bless! Happy hunting!
Kale
 
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