-
Welcome to the DeeperBlue.com Forums, the largest online community dedicated to Freediving, Scuba Diving and Spearfishing. To gain full access to the DeeperBlue.com Forums you must register for a free account. As a registered member you will be able to:
- Join over 44,280+ fellow diving enthusiasts from around the world on this forum
- Participate in and browse from over 516,210+ posts.
- Communicate privately with other divers from around the world.
- Post your own photos or view from 7,441+ user submitted images.
- All this and much more...
You can gain access to all this absolutely free when you register for an account, so sign up today!
Abs on a come back?
- Thread starterCingene
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
OK, this is going to offend many, enlighten a few and generally let me wax historic, but blaming the commercial guys is not the sole cause to the decline of abalone, especially the red abalone in California.
There I feel much better. :head
Commercial fishermen have it pretty tough and I say that having been one in a few species and areas, abalone and sea urchins being the most relative to this discussion. While nobody put a gun to my head and said, "Be a commercial fisherman," there are many ways of going broke with considerably more difficulty and less risk of losing the farm and the digits. The commercial fishermen are doing what they are allowed and mandated to do within the set(s) of regulations that you, we, us voters tell our politicians to enact. Any less and they go broke. Any more and they get popped by the fish cops. In the middle there is a very small area where you can do alright financially if you bust your ass, and don't go out with some hot blonde more than once a month. To Mc Donalds.
As with every other sport and avocation there will be a few idiots that feel it is beneathe them to follow the guidelines and limits and they go merrily poaching away. Some will get caught, most will not, a few will get hurt and the rest will go on to more lucrative sidelines like selling crack and pictures of kids. This ruins the whole show for everybody that's doing it right and even more detrimental is the damage it does to the public perception. When John Q. Public see's a slew of fish on the beach the immediate reaction is one of "Why so many fish for one guy?", and the race is on to limit access and redefine the size and bag limits. But back to abalone....
The decline and now the virtual complete absence of abalone in Southern California is due to three things- yes, the commercial take was not sustainable, the sport diver pressure was huge, and a little bug called "withering foot" disease did the rest. In hindsight, yes, the industry should have gone to limited entry sooner with smaller daily and yearly limits, but those same commercial guys were the only ones that were putting into the fund for studying farming. The sport guys were diving abs with SCUBA until the late 70's. C'mon...SCUBA??! And no one, especially the NOAA, EPA and DFG guys saw the withering foot thing coming. Call it ab AIDS.
So now what? Up North here it's always been abs by freediving and the limits are now such that it's sometimes a real decision as to head out for a measly three and even then we only get 24 per year. Good for us, I say.
In the meantime, the politicians are tapping the fee's for the filling of pockets andpotholes, the few entrepenurial types are scratching away at abalone farming, the fishcops are undersatffed and underpaid, and abalone are still being secreted away in the bags and pants of less than smooth individuals and their kin. What to do?
Support the few acts of legislation that puport to identify and enhance abalone research. Do the same for access issues. Join a club that activly promotes healthy competitions by size and specie limits. And here's the biggie- even if the laws say you can take three abalone a day, how many do you really need? Sure, you're having the gang over for a feed, by all means. But if it's you and the resident vitamin sales blonde, one is plenty. And if you're allowed 24 per year, yeah, stuff a few in the freezer, but only having a punch card with 20 holes is less a sign that you're good and more a sign that you're a good guy.
Smooth even.
There I feel much better. :head
Commercial fishermen have it pretty tough and I say that having been one in a few species and areas, abalone and sea urchins being the most relative to this discussion. While nobody put a gun to my head and said, "Be a commercial fisherman," there are many ways of going broke with considerably more difficulty and less risk of losing the farm and the digits. The commercial fishermen are doing what they are allowed and mandated to do within the set(s) of regulations that you, we, us voters tell our politicians to enact. Any less and they go broke. Any more and they get popped by the fish cops. In the middle there is a very small area where you can do alright financially if you bust your ass, and don't go out with some hot blonde more than once a month. To Mc Donalds.
As with every other sport and avocation there will be a few idiots that feel it is beneathe them to follow the guidelines and limits and they go merrily poaching away. Some will get caught, most will not, a few will get hurt and the rest will go on to more lucrative sidelines like selling crack and pictures of kids. This ruins the whole show for everybody that's doing it right and even more detrimental is the damage it does to the public perception. When John Q. Public see's a slew of fish on the beach the immediate reaction is one of "Why so many fish for one guy?", and the race is on to limit access and redefine the size and bag limits. But back to abalone....
The decline and now the virtual complete absence of abalone in Southern California is due to three things- yes, the commercial take was not sustainable, the sport diver pressure was huge, and a little bug called "withering foot" disease did the rest. In hindsight, yes, the industry should have gone to limited entry sooner with smaller daily and yearly limits, but those same commercial guys were the only ones that were putting into the fund for studying farming. The sport guys were diving abs with SCUBA until the late 70's. C'mon...SCUBA??! And no one, especially the NOAA, EPA and DFG guys saw the withering foot thing coming. Call it ab AIDS.
So now what? Up North here it's always been abs by freediving and the limits are now such that it's sometimes a real decision as to head out for a measly three and even then we only get 24 per year. Good for us, I say.
In the meantime, the politicians are tapping the fee's for the filling of pockets andpotholes, the few entrepenurial types are scratching away at abalone farming, the fishcops are undersatffed and underpaid, and abalone are still being secreted away in the bags and pants of less than smooth individuals and their kin. What to do?
Support the few acts of legislation that puport to identify and enhance abalone research. Do the same for access issues. Join a club that activly promotes healthy competitions by size and specie limits. And here's the biggie- even if the laws say you can take three abalone a day, how many do you really need? Sure, you're having the gang over for a feed, by all means. But if it's you and the resident vitamin sales blonde, one is plenty. And if you're allowed 24 per year, yeah, stuff a few in the freezer, but only having a punch card with 20 holes is less a sign that you're good and more a sign that you're a good guy.
Smooth even.
Last edited:
"What to do?
----Support the few acts of legislation that purport to identify and enhance abalone research. Do the same for access issues. Join a club that activly promotes healthy competitions by size and specie limits. And here's the biggie- even if the laws say you can take three abalone a day, how many do you really need? Sure, you're having the gang over for a feed, by all means. But if it's you and the resident vitamin sales blonde, one is plenty. And if you're allowed 24 per year, yeah, stuff a few in the freezer, but only having a punch card with 20 holes is less a sign that you're good and more a sign that you're a good guy.
Smooth even. "---icarus pacific
Thanks, Sven. Points well taken!
----Support the few acts of legislation that purport to identify and enhance abalone research. Do the same for access issues. Join a club that activly promotes healthy competitions by size and specie limits. And here's the biggie- even if the laws say you can take three abalone a day, how many do you really need? Sure, you're having the gang over for a feed, by all means. But if it's you and the resident vitamin sales blonde, one is plenty. And if you're allowed 24 per year, yeah, stuff a few in the freezer, but only having a punch card with 20 holes is less a sign that you're good and more a sign that you're a good guy.
Smooth even.
"---icarus pacific Thanks, Sven. Points well taken!
But now comes the size issue. From what I gathered the bigger the abs the more it can produce, therefore there is a question on my mind wether there should be an upper and a lower limit on the size of abs we can take. And as our Aussie friend can attest to, maybe we will be more succesful if we do begin having an lower as well as an upper size limit on the take.
over 9" and it's mine.
I figure that if the abalone is 9", it's had a few chances to do it's thing and it's open season. Under that and it's not really enough to do the meal right. That means really picking your spots and if that means Stillwater, then if it's 8-1/4" and up, go for it.
I figure that if the abalone is 9", it's had a few chances to do it's thing and it's open season. Under that and it's not really enough to do the meal right. That means really picking your spots and if that means Stillwater, then if it's 8-1/4" and up, go for it.
I followed Sven's advice and started off as a conservative ab diver only taking two (9") from a secret site somewhere in the Sonoma-Mendocino Coast. This ones where served on Sunday for a family get together. Two is more than enough I still have some prepared ab steaks in the freezer and will serve them later on a special occassion. Will have to do some spearfishing instead along the same site 'cause I saw a few good size greenlings and lingcod in very shallow waters. Maybe will do one more ab dive before winter and that would be it for the season.
HI There
In South Africa we have the same problem. I've ranted about it somewhere else in the forum. Now I have got some more info.
This comes from News24.com.
I won't copy the whole article but i'll paste some interesting lines and add my comments
"Cape Town - A ban on recreational diving for perlemoen (abalone) and the allocation of harvesting rights to individual divers, not companies, are the key features of a new draft policy aimed at protecting stocks of the threatened shellfish in the Western Cape." - Damn
"These would be valid for 10 years" Damn - Now I'll be 34 before I can eat som ab again.
"Perlemoen poaching had led to rapid decline of the fishery's total allowable catch (TAC) over the past two years. "
"The extent of the decline of the (perlemoen) resource can be illustrated by the reduction in TAC of 693 tons in 2000, to an amount of 430 tons for the 2002/03 season," the department said. " - True
"It estimated that poachers removed more than 1000 tons of perlemoen last year." - I would say i'ts a lot more.
"Moosa told journalists he believed the new policy, once implemented, would "stifle" the crime syndicates behind the poaching. " - I don't think so. The problem is the complete lack of funds for the Police\Coastal Management. When the police get a report that somebody is poaching. They have to get their boat into the water and go to where the poaching is taking place.
The poachers see the boat arrive or they get a call from the people who sit at the launch area. When the police arive they are gone a long time ago. Or if the police get there The either open fire on them with AK 47's (I'm not kidding, this happened before.)
Or they just outrun them with their much more powerful boats.
The whole of last season last season (Crayfish and abelone) I was not asked to show my catch or show my Licence once. What preveted me to not taking out more than my allowable quota ? My common sense.
"On the ban on recreational diving, Moosa said although there were only 11 days in each season when this was allowed, this "control mechanism" had not worked. "
"On those days, recreational divers descended on the resource in huge numbers." - I dive at a lot of places around Cape Town. The one place where I've seen the most divers for ablone is at Melkbosstrand. There is pretty tight policing and though they don't always check people when they get out of the water it just keep people on their toes. Melkbos gets dived everyday in the open season but still there is a lot of abelone. Take another place like Betty's Bay for instance. 3 years ago I went diving for abs there. I found a reef not far from the shore (50m) in about 5 m deep water. this reef was completly covered in abelone. they were quite literally touching sides. I went down and took out my 3 with one breath. When I went there last year the whole reef was cleaned out. Not a single one left. Why would abelone survive in good numbers recreational diving for 40 years ? But in 3 years since the poaching started in earnest would it be harder to find than chickens teeth ? I would rather Allow recreational diving but get the divers on your side. Set up toll free lines that they can use if they see poaching. Use the money that we pay for faster boats and bigger guns if you have to. Make the penalties stiffer. Don't give a guy a R 3500 (500US$) Fine if gets caught with 26 undersize abs out of season. Make him pay more or send him to jail. And use that money to pay a guy's salary to catch people poaching.
But looks to me like IQ is even more scarcer than Abs.
Cheers Reinier
In South Africa we have the same problem. I've ranted about it somewhere else in the forum. Now I have got some more info.
This comes from News24.com.
I won't copy the whole article but i'll paste some interesting lines and add my comments
"Cape Town - A ban on recreational diving for perlemoen (abalone) and the allocation of harvesting rights to individual divers, not companies, are the key features of a new draft policy aimed at protecting stocks of the threatened shellfish in the Western Cape." - Damn
"These would be valid for 10 years" Damn - Now I'll be 34 before I can eat som ab again.
"Perlemoen poaching had led to rapid decline of the fishery's total allowable catch (TAC) over the past two years. "
"The extent of the decline of the (perlemoen) resource can be illustrated by the reduction in TAC of 693 tons in 2000, to an amount of 430 tons for the 2002/03 season," the department said. " - True
"It estimated that poachers removed more than 1000 tons of perlemoen last year." - I would say i'ts a lot more.
"Moosa told journalists he believed the new policy, once implemented, would "stifle" the crime syndicates behind the poaching. " - I don't think so. The problem is the complete lack of funds for the Police\Coastal Management. When the police get a report that somebody is poaching. They have to get their boat into the water and go to where the poaching is taking place.
The poachers see the boat arrive or they get a call from the people who sit at the launch area. When the police arive they are gone a long time ago. Or if the police get there The either open fire on them with AK 47's (I'm not kidding, this happened before.)
Or they just outrun them with their much more powerful boats.
The whole of last season last season (Crayfish and abelone) I was not asked to show my catch or show my Licence once. What preveted me to not taking out more than my allowable quota ? My common sense.
"On the ban on recreational diving, Moosa said although there were only 11 days in each season when this was allowed, this "control mechanism" had not worked. "
"On those days, recreational divers descended on the resource in huge numbers." - I dive at a lot of places around Cape Town. The one place where I've seen the most divers for ablone is at Melkbosstrand. There is pretty tight policing and though they don't always check people when they get out of the water it just keep people on their toes. Melkbos gets dived everyday in the open season but still there is a lot of abelone. Take another place like Betty's Bay for instance. 3 years ago I went diving for abs there. I found a reef not far from the shore (50m) in about 5 m deep water. this reef was completly covered in abelone. they were quite literally touching sides. I went down and took out my 3 with one breath. When I went there last year the whole reef was cleaned out. Not a single one left. Why would abelone survive in good numbers recreational diving for 40 years ? But in 3 years since the poaching started in earnest would it be harder to find than chickens teeth ? I would rather Allow recreational diving but get the divers on your side. Set up toll free lines that they can use if they see poaching. Use the money that we pay for faster boats and bigger guns if you have to. Make the penalties stiffer. Don't give a guy a R 3500 (500US$) Fine if gets caught with 26 undersize abs out of season. Make him pay more or send him to jail. And use that money to pay a guy's salary to catch people poaching.
But looks to me like IQ is even more scarcer than Abs.
Cheers Reinier