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Accident at the Blue Hole!

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
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Tommy_R

Active Member
Nov 29, 2006
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Ideas why he was stuck down there and wasn't when he reached the surface:

the carabiner reaches the tennisball with the lanyard already slightly "wrapped" around the diveline - carabiner stops and the wrapped lanyard falls further down under the tennisball thereby building a kind of "loop" which is thightening as soon as the diver starts to ascend again.
This loop will mostlikely get loose as soon as there is no more weight on it keeping it closed. So when he stopped swimming the entanglement was most likely gone, too late though.

Thats maybe why the tennisball was moved and the lanyard wasn't still stuck at the surface.
 
foodie

foodie

New Member
May 23, 2011
10
1
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I am shocked about the accident, but happy to hear that Sergio is okay. I was diving with him on the 2nd of January at the Blue Hole when he made 87m for the first time. Thanks to great work of the safety divers, Lotta, Stefan and others who helped!
 
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diver87

Active Member
Jun 9, 2009
54
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I am shocked about the accident, but happy to hear that Sergio is okay. I was diving with him on the 2nd of January at the Blue Hole when he made 87m for the first time. Thanks to great work of the safety divers, Lotta and Stefan!

There were ar bunch of other divers around who helped. Without them it would have been much more than 5 minutes under water.
 
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efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
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There were ar bunch of other divers around who helped. Without them it would have been much more than 5 minutes under water.

5 minutes underwater? What depth did the blackout happen? The story is not that helpful because it is very vague.
 
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diver87

Active Member
Jun 9, 2009
54
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Yes 5 minutes. The Blackout was at around 60m... But no one knows exactly. He also does not tell all details an tries to keep it harmless. So i don´t know if I´m aloud to tell the whole story here... i will write you a PM.
 
cebaztian

cebaztian

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2003
827
177
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Lets not look at this too "black and white".
Maybe it is not a question about lanyard or no lanyard
Maybe it is about the details in the set up of:
Rope
Bottomweight
Bottomplate
Tennisball / cone
Lanyard construction

I feel the reaction of the diver in this case was strange.
Pulling up a bottomweight.
Stopping at 60 meters waiting to be rescued.

A narced mind or wrong approach to safety.

Removing and REattaching lanyards can be trained.
Tennisballs/cones can be attached so that they do not entangle.
Lanyards can be built so that they do not tangle
(even though I have not succeeded)

We just have to be smarter.
And mentallly rehearse worst case scenarios.

I have managed to dive 13 years without problems with my lanyard.
I guess it is about what you do down there at the turn.

Having said that, I believe that the safety systems we have (retrieval) should never be dependent on the divers actions. We must expect and allow irrational behavior.

Good that it ended well.

Sebastian
 
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ericvrp

Well-Known Member
Oct 9, 2006
196
29
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Sergio told me last year that he prefers diving noseclip-only so no fluid goggles. I don't know if that was his setup during this dive. But if it was than that would influence his ability to assess the situation and untangle the lanyard.
 
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Tommy_R

Active Member
Nov 29, 2006
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I don't think there is a way to build them so they would NEVER get stuck - so there is no way around training to realease them and preparing yourself mentally that you might get stuck and deal with the situation.
 
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esom

Well-Known Member
Aug 17, 2010
196
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Maybe it is not a question about lanyard or no lanyard

Sebastian

YES, i would even say for sure not as there was also a diver involved, as cebaztion mentioned too.
But it´s just as sure that there was not only a diver with a ... ? mind but also

the blue hole, the restaurant where all line divers meet and where you are kindly asked by the staff how deep you went today, the hired crew, the experienced crew, the crew which is connected to official things a lot, the fact that it´s day number x of a ... "trip" (i was looking for more precise words for this - gave up), the guy making pool training possible at home...

would be nice to hear what associations you come up with.

to go one step further from preparing setup and diver in a different way i´d like to look at being a buddy. we could ask: how can providing safety provide safety?
i think one good answer to this is sometimes -maybe in dahab a little more often then elsewhere, not to provide saftey. how this can be done without saying "i don´t dive with you" is a or better said two subjects. on their own?
 
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spainpick

New Member
Jan 31, 2012
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That´s true, but you cann make them much much safer! If you look at some Lanyards that are beeing used, you will see a lot of dangerous designs. You can make them shorter and thicker etc. I think Sergio made a totally wrong decission! He wrote that he felt so good etc. so why was he not relaxed enough to start thinking end releasingthe lanyard? If the dive felt so easy he would never blacked out at below 10m... For me it´s clear that he had some narcosis and was not used to it. As far as i know the 87m was the second time for him below 80... and the first time during his Training in Dahab. So that happens if you increase you depth to rapidly... Even if you dive without mask you should be able to release you lanyard, even a child can open the quick release while having eyes closed. And if you dont have a quick-release you are just crazy and stupid... I can´t understand why for example FDD is selling lanyards with or WITHOUT !! quick release
 
trullalla

trullalla

New Member
Jun 23, 2005
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I can´t understand why for example FDD is selling lanyards with or WITHOUT !! quick release

hi Spainpick, just a small correction about your statement: we dont sell lanyards without a quick release. we sell lanyards with 1 or 2 quick releases.
which is: either with only the wrist strap as quick release (like the breatheology kind) or with the safety carabiner in addition (which makes it possible to release the lanyard both by opening the strap AND by opening the safety carabiner).

linda
 
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Erik Skoda

New Member
Nov 9, 2008
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About the lanyard wrapping around the diveline: untill recently I used a PVC hose over the stainless cable and never had the problem. To get the carabiner to sink ahead of me I removed the hose except for the bits covering the duplex clips at the ends. Now it shows a tendency to wrap around the diveline if I stay close to it. Will go back to full length PVC hose at the expense of a bit more drag.
 
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efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
489
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How about ditching steel cable entirely, and using a rigid rod/tube to connect your wrist to the dive line?
 
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Erik Skoda

New Member
Nov 9, 2008
8
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If it's a semi rigid hose, I would want to keep the steel cable inside. Carabiner and quick-release / D-ring can then be attached using either duplex clips or swages, both of which have been tried and tested and work OK if properly applied.

A rigid rod or tube should fit the description of AIDA regulations of a non-elastic link. I'm not sure if I would like the feel of a completely rigid rod or tube, at least not a long one. Maybe a short one like 30 to 40 cm will feel OK.

DIY time :)
 
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spainpick

New Member
Jan 31, 2012
5
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hi Spainpick, just a small correction about your statement: we dont sell lanyards without a quick release. we sell lanyards with 1 or 2 quick releases.
which is: either with only the wrist strap as quick release (like the breatheology kind) or with the safety carabiner in addition (which makes it possible to release the lanyard both by opening the strap AND by opening the safety carabiner).

linda

looks like you have never tried to open a wrist wrap while wearing thick gloves ?!?! Becaus than you would never call it a quick release...!!! Same for Stig an the Breathology Lanyard! What a shame!
 
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Tommy_R

Active Member
Nov 29, 2006
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If you fix something big enough to grab with your gloves on the "quick release" strap on the velcro ( the yellow strap on the breatheology lanyard )it opens as fast as a metal quick release ....
 
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efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
489
173
looks like you have never tried to open a wrist wrap while wearing thick gloves ?!?! Becaus than you would never call it a quick release...!!! Same for Stig an the Breathology Lanyard! What a shame!

You should never do a deep dive with thick gloves on. No matter how cold the water. It's a safety hazard. Similarly, I believe that a vision device must always be used, to avoid blindness down there.
 
K

Kars

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2003
3,445
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About the tennis ball, I have been thinking a hockey ball may be much better because it's much wider (10cm), rigged, and it's white :)

On the lanyard, I used to have a steel cable with plastic coating, but now have a parachute cord. The steel cable was much more rigged and did never wrap up on the decent line. I notice the parachute rope does. - so I'm looking to improve this.

So for now I think a short rigged lanyard is best for safety.


Maybe a second very short lanyard, not deployed, on the other wrist will give the ascending diver the peace of mind of detaching the stuck one and employing the back up version later en route up.

Furthermore I often notice of how far many freedivers swim from the line on their ascend, pulling the whole competition line in an angle! - amazingly even top athletes do that! -

Now on the quest for a good lanyard material, let's define it's preferred properties.
Here's a few to start of with.

- Strong - to hold the diver's weight 3x
- light weight carbine that does not get stuck,
- connection line that has memory to straiten out.
- quickrelease on the wrist part, that is intuitive and simple, that does not open accidentally,
- Low drag,
- High visibility,
- length on the short side,
- durable,
- affordable,
 
Bill

Bill

Baron of Breathold
Oct 17, 2001
1,805
332
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I don't understand why 200 kilo monofilament isn't more popular. Very easy and forgiving to 'tie'. Doesn't tangle. Impossible to break.
 
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efattah

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2001
3,294
489
173
I had previously built lanyard with 300lb monofilament, as well as the most incredible line, 200lb spectra-fiber braided line. I still feel safer with steel, since it is more resistant to abrasion than mono, and less tangling than spectra fiber.

I will post a thread shortly on the ZiSOS and Neptune safety systems.

ZISOS= zero interference underwater emergency system
NEPTUNE = non entangling pulley train underwater emergency system
 
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