airguns: Sporasub One Air 2012!!!

[bmwgsboy]

The X-Runner piston according to Omer is much more brittle since it's machined instead of being molded, it has a higher failure rate. They've received several guns back with broken X-Runner pistons already, 5 of them already. Two of the pistons actually had the steel base dislodged from the rest of the piston and were lodged in the mechanism still causing accidental misfires and the other two actually were broken in half. Having said that if I were you I wouldn't put it in my gun. The newest version of the Sporasub piston I told you about over the phone is much smoother and isn't hampered by the tail of the shaft like the previous version. Friction issue is therefore addressed.
Sent to me from Mark at Omer US


As I mentioned we can't fix it for you if you don't send it to us.

 

[tromic]

Regarding brittle x-runner piston. I have not heard of that problem yet. Maybe plastic body is more brittle, or the shock absorber used with piston is not enough efficient or water left in muzzle cause its breakage!?

 

[Diving Gecko]

Yeah, I have been talking to Mark from Omer/Sporasub US as well over email. He has been very kind in getting back to emails that he was Cc'ed on in case Sporasub Italy did not get back on the same email... Mind you, gun was bought in Italy.
I think the issue is that some people have already popped in an STC X-Runner piston in their Air Ones and it has not gone well (supposedly five cases of breaking and some causing misfires). So, Omer/Sporasub is advising against it and also states it will void the warranty which I think is not unfair. But I am not sure what the issue is with Sporasub's own first piston since they now have a second one. Mark from Omer US in his email to bmwgsboy says that shaft tail is "hampered" leading to more friction, but can't picture what that means in practical terms.

I found that people on pescasub (Italian spearos forum) liked the STC piston and I actually got one for my Seac Hunter. It was noticeably lighter and a bit shorter than the original Seac. I can't comment on durability though, I just have to hope it will be OK.

All best,
David

 

[bmwgsboy]

Thanks for your post Gecko.
I will send back one air and stick
With the manufacture suggestion.
I would like to get a Giga press,
Have you or anybody have any experience
With it?? It looks like it would take some time to
Reload.

 

[Diving Gecko]

OK, Mark (Omersub US) just elaborated on the reasons behind new piston design. He said that the first design simply had too much friction. So much so, that early adopters of Air Ones started looking for third party pistons - and some of these have broken. Whether that's what led Sporasub to redesign the piston I don't know. I have emailed Sporasub Italy my serial number and asked them whether I have a new piston or not.

In regards to the Giga Press, I have not ever seen it in use. I like the idea, but mostly because I like clever mechanical stuff, but I am quite sure it is completely overkill on your gun. It is not cheap and you would need a new muzzle also for the Giga Press to hook into but most importantly, I think you can load a One Air easy enough with a tiny bit of practice. Your gun is 90cm, right? Mine is 120cm and when I started I was at 22-23 bars and it was a bit hard to load. But after just two days out with it, I took it up to 25 bars and can easily load it now. The gun is fast and powerful and if you start at around 18-20 bars, I am sure you can load it and then just move up from there if needed.

Best,
David

D.

 

[bmwgsboy]

Thanks David
I also like gagets, and would love to play
With that one but your right some practice
And I'll be fine. With the money for Giga press
I'm half way for another one air.
Are in in Singapor or US???
Thanks again.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Yeah, and as far as I can tell, the Giga Press is a two-part gadget that you would need to store also. I think it may start making sense on guns that are much longer, say 130-140. But then I hear that many people have no problems loading those with normal extended loaders with more steps on them.

My Seac Hunter 90 I load on my foot. I pull down on the spear and noticed that I bend the leg a bit upwards for the very last bit before locking spear in.

BTW, since my last post Sporasub Italy just got back to me on my questions. Lorenzo wrote a nice long and elaborate email.
They do say that in regards to loading, it is ideal to load with gun out of water, muzzle down, to empty that tiny bit of water but that they don't believe it is an issue if you can't load it like that. Especially with a 120cm, I find it very hard to balance it in one hand while inserting spear with the other. Mind you, you just have to insert the spear into the piston, then the empty muzzle is sealed and you can bring gun underwater again to finish the loading on your foot.

For the piston, unfortunately, they can't say whether mine has a new version or not based on the serial number of my gun, but they offered to ship one for free to my dealer.

Oh, I got a PDF of the manual. I see that the first page after cover now has the warning about engaging line release lever before loading. As mentioned elsewhere, I left my printed manual in Bangkok, but I am pretty sure it wasn't in there (I will double check when I get back). Good to see that it is now in there.

(I am living in Shanghai - where having a speargun is illegal, but then I flee to Thailand on vacations)

 

[Diving Gecko]

Here is my first spearing video from my days in south Thailand. Unfortunately, the battery on the GoPro is not great, so had to turn cam on and off all the time. But often I forgot to turn it on before a dive...;-(. Eg. when I shot the two queenfish, the cam was off, I only turned it on as I got back on the surface and realized. This is a pity as it would have been the two that best would have shown the Air One in action as the fish were a bit further away and not on a reef. Eg. spear went straight through them. The sequence with the queenfish is actually two different fish, but I only had the braining of the first one and when I had that in the edit, it was just too much playing with knives...
Speaking of knives, I left the braining part of the procedure in the videos. Some don't, I guess not to scare sensitive people(?).
In the end, I think, the catches that are on cam could all have been taken on my 90cm gun…

As always, any advice will be gratefully received.

Best,
David

Vimeo:
http://www.vimeo.com/58760480

Youtube:
[ame]http://youtu.be/5nF23Qpak8E[/ame]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nF23Qpak8E&feature=youtu.be

 

[Gazz]

Nice Catch!! I bet you enjoyed that red snapper.

Thanks for Sharing. The video is shakey, is this because of the camera mount flexing?

It was difficult to see the performance of the gun, but the asso looked like it had a LOT of punch? What do you think the range of the airone is?

Also try mounting the camera closer to the muzzle, that way the viewer is closer to the action and less of the screen is obstructed by the guns barrel.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Hi Gazz,
Thanks for your input.
Yup, the two snappers were amazing. Those and groupers were always my fave eating fish here in Thailand, but getting them myself made it even better. I wont forget those meals anytime soon. The folks at the seafood restaurant which cooked it up for me and my friends were seriously envious - that's gotta be the best sign ever;-)
The Queenfish were very tasty as well but the big Sweetlips would likely have been better in a soup or curry as it did not have the delicacy and juiciness of the snappers.

Yeah, the 2mm plate for the cam mount is too thin, it wobbles too much. I am sure the shakes are from the mount. I'll prolly change it to 2mm alu or come up with something else altogether.

I didn't think about mounting the cam more forward, I think I was worried about the gun being muzzle heavy. I might try that next time (no more spearing on this trip unfortunately).
I had actually made my own dive housing with a flat pink filter and had put an even less fisheyed lens on the Gopro to go in that housing. But it was leaky, so I gave it up. I think that would have solved it as I really liked the narrower view from that lens.
With luck, I can afford a GoPro 3 before my next trip and shoot it at more narrow angles.

Viz has been bad for last half of my trip, so Air One has not been out much. Also, I am still a newbie so it's hard for me to comment on its potential range. I do think it should take fish at 4-5 meters as when shot, it takes 7 meters of mono and some line from the reel.

Yup, the Asso (Hunter) is indeed powerful. More than I thought.
The shot on the snapper at the end was on low power. I have added a lot of contrast to that clip - in reality, I was losing sight of the fish because of the bad viz. It swings quite easy as well and I think it is a very good reef gun. I had a feeling that I could take much bigger fish on it and that it would just be an issue of whether I would have needed a reel or a float.
I have it rigged with 4 wraps of mono and it takes that. I have it at 18 bar right now and it's not that easy to load after a shot on full power. I don't know if that's just how it is or if the friction is a lot from the Evo Air muzzle. (The Air One is at 25 and much easier).
The trigger is not as smooth as the Air One, so I might modify that as well.

 

[Diving Gecko]

It was difficult to see the performance of the gun, but the asso looked like it had a LOT of punch?

Hmm, the only way I can help quantify the power of the Asso (Hunter) 90 is with a pic showing how dinged the spear was after one hit into a rock.... Before the rock, from the speartip, I'd say the spear travelled through a good 2.5-3 meters of water and one smallish grouper.

Before the hit, the spear was very nice and pointy.

 

[tromic]

I suppose that Hanter 90 and One Air 120, if they both had same mass of spear and same shaft diameter (or same length) should shoot about the same. Also the loading effort should be same, about 24 kgf. (Hanter on 18 bar, One Air on 24 bar). If Hanter 90 with Evo-Air requires higher loading effort that is because of higher friction in a muzzle, shaft to O-ring.

 

[Sub Fireman]

I have carefully read the translator trying your speeches and I hope to respond in the right way.

I am the constructor of Seatec Evo-Air and can tell you that this has no Responsibility 'concerning the numerous breaks Pistons you installed but everything is due only to the Pistons to their construction and their materials.

The Seatec Evo-Air requires no charging out of the water as it has been conceived for its operation below the Sea also being Loading.

As you will know this and Called to O'Ring Mobile and this is exactly removing the head before the shot so that this can not move if the ring is unscrewed nothing happens but it gets to O'Ring Fixed but its operation is guaranteed.

If you visit the link that will place you can see the Latest Version of Evo.Air Silent damper that allows Additional Benefits Unknown to all other Competitive Changes.

I hope to be profit with this information and in case of help I will try to make myself understood by replying.

Greetings Maurizio

Head of Technical Seatec

Seatec- EVO AIR FREE

Seatec

 

[popgun pete]

I assume that the Seatec "Evo Air" uses the tightening of the muzzle nose piece to hold the "O" ring more firmly for the loading task so that the spear movement does not dislodge it and break the vacuum seal during the actual loading action and then once loading is completed the muzzle nose piece is unscrewed slightly and relies on the now established vacuum in the inner barrel to hold the "O" ring in position via suction. When the gun shoots the front of the seal locating step inside the muzzle wipes the now very slightly loosened "O" ring off the spear shaft, the piston travelling forwards before water has time to be sucked into the inner barrel as the vacuum seal breaks with the initial forward motion of the spear. But does it? If some water jets into the inner barrel bore before the piston reaches the shock absorber face then there will be no volume accommodation for the extra water above and beyond the water volume which was already in the muzzle at the commencement of loading. The resulting hydraulic lock condition will load up the piston seals and maybe push water into the air reservoir side of the piston. I think that if this design or any other loosens up the muzzle seal for the outward travel of the spear shaft then it should have a blow-off valve to allow an escape path for any additional water volume that may have entered the inner barrel. That circumstance is what Tromic is talking about, but of course we would all rather load our guns while completely submerged and not have to worry about tipping any water out.

I think that all vacuum barrel kits should have blow-off valves, even if the vacuum seal is fixed for spear travel in either direction as seals can always develop leaks. Blow-off valves are essentially covered muzzle relief ports that open on a positive pressure developing inside the inner barrel, but otherwise stay closed. The external appearance of the blow-off valves should confirm the vacuum status inside the inner barrel. The main consideration is to avoid water penetrating into the gun's pressurized air spaces, especially saltwater.

As for pistons breaking, the taper on the spear tail will bust the piston if it is made of a brittle material as the taper wedges the hole in the piston face unless the butt of the tail rests on the base of the hole, but that removes the margin for piston wear as that hole opens up with wear allowing the tail to penetrate slightly further into the piston and still be held.

 

[tromic]

I assume that the Seatec "Evo Air" uses the tightening of the muzzle nose piece to hold the "O" ring more firmly for the loading task so that the spear movement does not dislodge it and break the vacuum seal during the actual loading action and then once loading is completed the muzzle nose piece is unscrewed slightly and relies on the now established vacuum in the inner barrel to hold the "O" ring in position via suction. When the gun shoots the front of the seal locating step inside the muzzle wipes the now very slightly loosened "O" ring off the spear shaft, the piston travelling forwards before water has time to be sucked into the inner barrel as the vacuum seal breaks with the initial forward motion of the spear. But does it? If some water jets into the inner barrel bore before the piston reaches the shock absorber face then there will be no volume accommodation for the extra water above and beyond the water volume which was already in the muzzle at the commencement of loading. The resulting hydraulic lock condition will load up the piston seals and maybe push water into the air reservoir side of the piston. I think that if this design or any other loosens up the muzzle seal for the outward travel of the spear shaft then it should have a blow-off valve to allow an escape path for any additional water volume that may have entered the inner barrel. That circumstance is what Tromic is talking about, but of course we would all rather load our guns while completely submerged and not have to worry about tipping any water out.

I think that all vacuum barrel kits should have blow-off valves, even if the vacuum seal is fixed for spear travel in either direction as seals can always develop leaks. Blow-off valves are essentially covered muzzle relief ports that open on a positive pressure developing inside the inner barrel, but otherwise stay closed. The external appearance of the blow-off valves should confirm the vacuum status inside the inner barrel. The main consideration is to avoid water penetrating into the gun's pressurized air spaces, especially saltwater.

As for pistons breaking, the taper on the spear tail will bust the piston if it is made of a brittle material as the taper wedges the hole in the piston face unless the butt of the tail rests on the base of the hole, but that removes the margin for piston wear as that hole opens up with wear allowing the tail to penetrate slightly further into the piston and still be held.

That all right Pete! Just to add, more firmly is actually much more firmly, and that is why loading is more difficult than it would be with any other kit. The design of Evo-Air requires much more firmly compressing of O-ring otherwise it would not be possible to use the gun with 6.5 mm shaft as well as with 7 mm, and the O-ring would not be movable. To be movable high friction is required. Friction is even higher with 7 mm shaft. So the loading effort should be higher too. That is the price for stronger shoot.

 

[bmwgsboy]

That all right Pete! Just to add, more firmly is actually much more firmly, and that is why loading is more difficult than it would be with any other kit. The design of Evo-Air requires much more firmly compressing of O-ring otherwise it would not be possible to use the gun with 6.5 mm shaft as well as with 7 mm, and the O-ring would not be movable. To be movable high friction is required. Friction is even higher with 7 mm shaft. So the loading effort should be higher too. That is the price for stronger shoot.

Can it be possible to put a EVO -air
On a one air??what would be the advantage???
Just curious

 

[tromic]

I would not do it. One Air with x-power is easier to use than it would be with Evo-Air.

 

[bmwgsboy]

Your rite
Will leave the way it is.

 

[bmwgsboy]

According to
Sporasub it is ok to load the one air
Underwater. Has anybody notice
A difference in power??

 

[tromic]

I suppose no one could see difference in power if sealing is good. What you might see is how often you have to change the piston and/or the shock absorber.