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Aquatech Black Sea hydropneumatic gun

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

popgun pete

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2008
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This new thread is to avoid further high-jacking of the "new Omer pneumatic" thread.

The best place for info is the manufacturer's web-site. The Aquatech spearguns have been around for years, being manufactured in the Ukraine. The "Black Sea" gun is an evolution of the standard Aquatech hydropneumatic gun; main difference is the auxiliary hydropump built into the rear end of the gun and the gun body being uprated for higher operating pressure. Without this hydropump you would never load it unless you were built like King Kong and the spear was made of "unbendium"!

The "Black Sea" gun was first developed to shoot big Tuna, the first guy to do so would be Fernando Abella, who sometimes posts on this forum. Later "Black Sea" models have been made in different lengths as not everyone has the need, or opportunity, to shoot Tuna, but would still like a powerful gun. The "Black Sea" gun is charged initially from an air tank, but it is a captive air system and loses no pressure during use, same as with all other pneumatic spearguns. The air inlet valve is on the side of the muzzle, the valve stem is actually the forward sight on the barrel of my gun. The guns are not floaters, however the latter ones have a fatter body diameter that has improved this aspect, going from 30 mm OD to 35 mm OD. My 2007 year model gun is one of these fatter ones and is not far off floating, only the hunk of stainless steel at the rear that the pump handle pivots on weighs it down. The plastic hydropump handle has helped in reducing weight at the rear as originally they were made of metal. I will be adding some flotation to improve this, right now the gun floats horizontal in the water unloaded with only my finger supporting it under the trigger finger guard. The original 30 mm OD guns sunk like stones because of insufficient water displacement to offset their weight. Most hydropneumatic spearguns are of this smaller body size because floating was not a prime requirement when spearfishing in a lake or river, but recent developments suggest that there will be a move to floating after spear discharge guns.

Main problem in getting one of these is shipping it in through the various channels. Although the regulations permit the import of spearguns (otherwise why would any speargun be sold in local stores?), not everyone in the shipping/customs chain knows that fact and unfortunately it only takes one "using his initiative" to stop your gun in its tracks. The best approach is to write for official permission at your end, you will be told it is not strictly necessary, but say that you want it anyway. This "approval" document will be a good investment as citing it will melt opposition like snow when and if it occurs, but you need to monitor the situation once the gun is posted at the Ukrainian end. My gun took one week to reach here, but cooled its heels for nearly two months while someone in officialdom here pondered whether it was a threat to civilisation as we know it. Once I found out where it was and explained what it was I received it two days later. Evidently the operating instructions, which clearly showed a speargun, had been of no help, plus the gun did not seem to work when they examined it. Not surprising as without water inside it the gun will not work.
 
LOL bloody customs :p

I tried pming you, but i think it is having some problems due to the site movement, so could u plz email some details of the gun?
I went to the site and couldnt find any prices or contact info of the shop that sells them, also shipping info.

Much appreciated if you could :)

my email is mongrel@arach.net.au
 
These Aquatech spearguns are not sold in dive shops in the Ukraine, they are all custom made to individual orders, hence the price varies depending on the particular model of gun that is ordered and when you actually order it as other factors like exchange rates also apply for foreign purchases. Essentially you are buying directly from the manufacturer, there are no retail outlets as such. Nor are there set price lists as far as I know. There is not much more that I can tell you, it is just a case of writing to the e-mail address and getting a quote on a gun based on what you see on offer. Shipping will have to be worked out as it will depend on how long the gun is, there are size limitations on what can be sent through the mail service, otherwise it requires the services of international couriers. Some of these are not keen on shipping spearguns! The situation changes regularly, so you will have to explore the options as they currently stand. I am not in the business of selling these guns, so you will have to find this all out for yourself.

In the Ukraine and Russia there are two main sources of locally made spearguns, factory production models and those from specialist speargun makers that operate something like gunsmiths. The Aquatech speargun range is one of the latter, it is not a mass production company like say Mares-Sub or Cressi-Sub which churn guns out in large volumes. Limited production costs more, plus the Aquatech guns are basically hand-made, so they are going to be expensive compared to those other types of guns.
 
Appreciate the reply Pete :)

They certainly look like they pack a punch and if i continue to go up north each year i will be looking for a underwater cannon LOL.
 
Pete, How many stokes of the pump does it take to get your 850 cm gun up to maximum pressure on a reload?
 
It takes about 14 lever strokes to inject the equivalent of the inner barrel volume. That amount of water pushes the spear all the way right up to the muzzle exit. For a longer gun you would need more pumping strokes of course. Some "Black Sea" guns have 10 mm diameter inner barrels, so that also requires more lever strokes due to the increased internal volume of the inner barrel.
 
Pete, could you post another photo with a close up shot of the muzzle where the shaft is inserted? I am curious to see how they keep the shaft centered in relation to the bore of the inner barrel. Also, it your line attached toward the front or rear of the shaft.
 
The shaft is centred in the muzzle because it is an 8 mm diameter shaft running inside a 9 mm diameter barrel, the spear is guided all the way by the close fit of the barrel along its entire length. You have to remember that there is no muzzle diameter restriction on a hydropneumatic speargun, the muzzle opening is the same diameter as the inner barrel. If you shoot smaller diameter shafts then the gun needs a step in the back of the line slide stop ring, same as on a pneumatic. The spear has a 9 mm diameter (with slight clearance) tail end carrier for the rear "O'' ring, so it uses the usual line slide arrangement for the shooting line attachment. Full power shots can jam the slide ring on the shaft tail if a tiny bit of grit gets in between the slide ring and the stop created by the carrier as the tolerances are very tight.

Sorry, no good photos of the muzzle of my gun, but it is essentially the same as the guns shown on the Aquatech web-site http://aquatech1.narod.ru/index1.html and http://aquatech1.narod.ru/english3.html.

If you click on the speargun thumbnails at the top of the index page then it will take you to various pages showing how the gun works and the internal layout. Most of them are in English and are easily understood.
 
Hey Pete,
Very interesting gun....what did it cost roughly to land in Australia?
Looks like it would be great to see it in action!
There was a dude in Karratha , WA, about 10 years ago that said he had "developed" the same thing and was building his first 50 production ones...I lost contact with the guy though, think his name could have been Nick, he had a very nice fishing boat ;-)
 
Rather than tell you how much my gun cost I can tell you that a friend in the USA has just been inquiring what the cost of a gun is right now. A "Black Sea" 1000x9 is currently quoted at 500.00 Euro, the "Black Sea" 1500x9 is 520.00 Euro. A much shorter "Black Sea" 500x9 is 480.00 Euro, so the extra length in a gun adds relatively little to the price of the gun. The barrel bore size is 9.0 mm. Shipping into Australia used to be around AU$100 for air mail, however Australia Post no longer handle long items once they exceed 42 inches, that is now true for the USA as well, so there has been some "standardisation", although you would need to check the current regulations for the exact length figure, no doubt expressed in metric for Oz. What that means is that a longer speargun will now be shipped through International courier services and they charge a lot more, including processing charges if you happen to strike a "make work" type who thinks that your gun needs to be put through the bureaucratic hoops.

I believe the guy in WA had a different idea and that was to pump water into the gun at the front end from a rear handle mounted pump. That injected water into the gun's concentric barrel reservoir and decreased its volume and thus raised the pressure for shooting after you had already loaded the gun, but in all other respects it was a pneumatic speargun with a barrel sliding piston pushing the spear out of the gun. The layout was the usual rear handle "Sten" type arrangement, but with an additional annular piston separating where the water entered the front of the gun from the rest of the concentric barrel air reservoir. Similar ideas have been around before for the classic rear bottle type air reservoir pneumatic spearguns, however you have to let the water out again in order to load the gun for the next shot. There is an Australian patent on it, but I have never seen the idea taken up in a production rear handle pneumatic speargun.

In the Aquatech "Black Sea" speargun the injected water is the "working fluid" that pushes the spear, it is not just a means to reduce the internal reservoir capacity and raise the air pressure, although it still does that during gun loading. The key difference is the air pressure is already at high levels inside the gun, the water is just the means to connect the moving element (the annular sliding bulkhead piston) to the spear tail, the water column being injected is in a sense a fluid spear going into the gun. What the rear hydropump does is let you break that "spear" up into smaller volume segments which you can load in incremental amounts. What seems absurdly high air pressures are due to the smaller barrel bore. When you decrease the bore of a pneumatic gun you need to increase the air pressure for the same propulsion force levels.
 
Thanks heaps Pete for your reply, you obviously are up on the knowledge of less commonly know about pneumatics and have done your homework!

I just a couple more questions

1. Can you effectively fire your Aquatech without pumping the sea water in? (i.e just on airpressure along).

2. I can understand the effectiveness of this gun for really big stuff:martial (amazing pressures it works at!), but how practical do you really think it is as an all-rounder compared to a good quality pneumatic with/without a mamba kit upgrade? It just seems to take a while to load...

Cheers bud :blackeye
 
The answer to the first question is no, the injection of water is fundamental to how a hydropneumatic speargun operates. Normally loading these guns involves pushing water inside the already flooded barrel further into the gun. This would usually be achieved during muzzle loading as per any other pneumatic powered speargun, but in the Aquatech "Black Sea" model the water can be injected in stages through the rear end of the gun instead. The hydraulic locking chamber in the rear of the gun makes this all possible, water that will displace the internal bulkhead piston and thereby charge the gun up for shooting can enter from either end of this rear locking chamber. Air pressure on the "dry side" of the bulkhead piston pushes this piston back again when you pull the trigger. Of course the extra injected water all goes out the front end via the barrel for spear propulsion, but charging from the rear using the hydropump is safer and a lot easier on both you and the spear. No spear bending during loading and no likelihood of a hole in the head if you lose your grip on the hand loader just before the mechanism latches the spear in a standard pneumatic speargun, particularly on the longer models.

The answer to the second question really depends on what you want to use the gun on. Like all spearguns it needs to be matched to the task, as an all-rounder gun I still use a Mares "Sten", I would only use the Aquatech where I needed a quiet and powerful shot with very high shaft speed. Some schooling fish like King George Whiting have a sense of their "radius of immunity", outside it no shaft will usually be able to reach them before they scatter in all directions or simply dodge the shaft as the loud noise of the gun's firing alerts them to incoming trouble. My mid-size "Black Sea" gun is ideal for picking such fish off because the fast approaching shaft takes them completely by surprise and leaves them less reaction time as there is virtually no shooting noise. To do this effectively you also need good accuracy at medium to long range and I have found the "Black Sea" gun the best that I have ever used in this respect compared to my other pneumatic spearguns of similar barrel length.

If you know the underwater conditions (unfortunately there are no absolute certainties in diving) and can predict what fish species you are likely to encounter then a more specialist gun can be selected. Anyone buying a "Black Sea" 1500x9 speargun would not be thinking of it as an all-rounder, they would have a very specific requirement for using it. Sneaking up on a fish or dropping down on it is always preferable to taking a long range shot, but sometimes you need that extra reach when the fish refuse to play ball. It also depends on how many fish you are after, for sure a faster cycling gun is more handy when you want to take lots of shots at different fish on a particular dive excursion.

Ultimately what attracted me to the "Black Sea" gun was the lack of operating noise, something that can never be eliminated from a standard pneumatic speargun, especially when you use high pressure air in your gun. The barrel sliding piston slamming into the muzzle makes such noise inevitable, with or without a Mamba system fitted. In the "Black Sea" gun the big diameter bulkhead piston is travelling more slowly, but the change in internal diameter as the exiting water pushes through into the much smaller diameter barrel drives the speed of the water up and consequently pushes the spear out at high velocity and with very little noise.
 
Hey Pete,
Ta for the reply, it would be a big advantage to have something silent:blackeye.
I was reading that report with all the guns lined up, yours really has an amazing amount of power:martial
The last thing I thought you would tell me though, is that you sometimes shoot KG with it, obviously you must be in the south somewhere?! (Maybe thats why I missed a beauty about 10 days ago!).
If you spear in Perth, come out with Mongrel etc..sometime.
Cheers
Cam
 
I live in Victoria in the South-East, King George Whiting are a common underwater sight here over the Summer period. They are very skittish and difficult to shoot, although I have bagged them with my Sten, but you need the right circumstances to get close enough. They seemed a logical target for the "Black Sea" gun as it possesses the necessary attributes to reach out to them when they are nervous. Seeing as everyone is after them, including line fishermen, they seem to be nervous all the time, especially as every spearfisherman takes a shot at them, so they are familiar with the noise that a regular speargun makes. Like all fish swimming in groups the big ones tend to stay further back, so a longer shot is generally required to hit them.
 
The name of the Australian guy who patented that water injection system for increasing air pressure in a rear handle layout pneumatic speargun is Nicolas Horlock. The USA version of his patent is US 6,170,477 dated January 9th, 2001. He is listed on the patent as living at Karratha, Western Australia. The Australian patent application date is February 26th, 1998.

Anyone know what happened to him or his plans to make some guns?
 
Like all fish swimming in groups the big ones tend to stay further back, so a longer shot is generally required to hit them.

or a longer breathold...:martial
 
Hey Pete,
I will try and contact Nick and find out what happened with his gun design. I haven't spoken to him since I lived at Karratha - at least 10 years ago, but should be able to find him.:blackeye
 
Hey Pete,
I will try and contact Nick and find out what happened with his gun design. I haven't spoken to him since I lived at Karratha - at least 10 years ago, but should be able to find him.:blackeye



Hey guys, I haven't had any luck trying to track down Nick, there aren't any Horlocks in the white pages in Karratha. I found two south of Perth and left messages but no reply. Any advice on tracking him down I will give him a buzz!

Cam
 
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