sapienaustralis indeed a dedicated freediver where most would give up! Possibly a Kiwi trait? Glad you are mastering your own path in freediving and finding improvement.
Nigel Hawkins thanks for sharing and look forward to any new developments.
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Atrial fibrillation doing statics
- Thread starterNigel Hawkins
- Start date
sapienaustralis indeed a dedicated freediver where most would give up! Possibly a Kiwi trait? Glad you are mastering your own path in freediving and finding improvement.
Nigel Hawkins thanks for sharing and look forward to any new developments.
AF is very common whether you freedive or not. I cannot say whether freediving caused mine or whether I was already one of the many 1000s that it anyway ie Tony Blair. But during the few years I was competitive, the AF went from rare to 24/7. The day I chose to go to hospital was after a real hard day labouring and a lousy nights sleep. In the morning my wife saw my face and new I was very ill. I was dizzy and greying out. The AF was always apparent during freediving (or I was more aware of it when doing static tables or preparing for a dive) so it maybe adrenaline or nervous induced. Once fixed by surgery, it has never re occured........but I have also never freedived since. (about 7 years). I shall be freediving again over the coming year, so watch this space.
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Just keeping you updated.
I've had the results back from my hospital tests and I'm happy to say they have all turned out totally normal, I did a set of 02 & C02 tables (On different days) whilst on the 72hr holter monitor and a few maximum holds. The consultant cardiologist said there were no abnormalities at all.
I have also been pool training DNF and have increased my distances since my episode and haven't had any side effects at all.
Personally I think I overtrained from the start. Now that I've had the all clear I will continue training taking very small steps allowing my body to adjust. There's no rush and I'm enjoying my training once again...
I've had the results back from my hospital tests and I'm happy to say they have all turned out totally normal, I did a set of 02 & C02 tables (On different days) whilst on the 72hr holter monitor and a few maximum holds. The consultant cardiologist said there were no abnormalities at all.
I have also been pool training DNF and have increased my distances since my episode and haven't had any side effects at all.
Personally I think I overtrained from the start. Now that I've had the all clear I will continue training taking very small steps allowing my body to adjust. There's no rush and I'm enjoying my training once again...
Glad to hear....i'd say what counts most is the time in the water. I.e. the body will adjust to freediving by being in the water.
The typical breath holds that we do as freedivers markedly reduce cardiac output due to decreased venous return and other factors (bradycardia). This reduced cardiac output could theoretically cause a relative coronary ischemia in some divers due to myocardial bridging and other specific anatomical issues unique to the individual. The coronary arteries are at the root of the aorta and are perfused by our left ventricle. This may not reveal itself on a typical echocardiogram and may require a peak inspiration breathold even to be evident on cardiac catheterization. Not fact just my theory. Ph changes and or electrolyte imbalance and changes in the Ca++ pump combined also cause dysrhythmias. Unfortunately these variables are near impossible to monitor in the freedive environment. There is no doubt in my mind that in selected individuals, prolonged breatholds can cause A.Fib.
Cardiac changes induced by immersion and breath-hold diving in humans
Cardiac changes induced by immersion and breath-hold diving in humans
In my case it was just the electrical pathways all going wrong so the heart was receiving impulses in the wrong sequence making it beat like a rubbish bongo drum player. Probably just a physical matter and not induced by holding my breath.
Its such a common complaint and hardly any of the many 1000s who have had it, hold their breath. My guess is that freediverrs get the complaint as the usual statistic. But we notice it more when are hearts and bodies are still. In my case, once I got active, the heart rate would regularise itself once it hit a higher rate (over 100 bpm). It was just rubbish on tickover.
Its such a common complaint and hardly any of the many 1000s who have had it, hold their breath. My guess is that freediverrs get the complaint as the usual statistic. But we notice it more when are hearts and bodies are still. In my case, once I got active, the heart rate would regularise itself once it hit a higher rate (over 100 bpm). It was just rubbish on tickover.
Hi Guys. Great forum. I too have experienced bad cases of tachycardia during freedives, this has been in cold water conditions, and all have occured during the freedive. Massive and sudden rises in heart rate have left me feeling faint, and recovery times have varied from 2 minutes, to up to 35 minutes, but not a very pleasant experience. It only started to occur about 2 years into my freediving, and got so regular I eventually quit. But I love and miss the sport.
Interestingly, I asked about it before on a forum, and had virtually no replies, so amazing to suddenly see so much info! Flecainide seems to be what i should try, so will chat to my doc, as Id love to start diving again.
Interestingly, I asked about it before on a forum, and had virtually no replies, so amazing to suddenly see so much info! Flecainide seems to be what i should try, so will chat to my doc, as Id love to start diving again.
Hey Bluecape. Not every tachycardia is Arterial Fibrilation, it could also be one of the many other rithm-disorders that cause tachycardia, and flecainide has its drawbacks too. So it might be required first to find out which kind of tachycardia you are suffering from.
I just now noticed this thread, so I'll add some of my experience that may or not be relevant.
A couple of years ago (at age 72) I was scheduled for prostate cancer surgery and went to my primary physician for pre-op clearance. He did an EKG but no one read it before I left the office. The next day I was out on my boat free dive spearfishing, and just before I jumped in the water, I got a call telling me that I had to come back for another EKG. I told them that I was diving and would come in the next day, but they seemed to think it was important. So while I did dive a couple of spots, I went in early so as to get to the office before it closed. Another EKG confirmed that I had atrial flutter, which is a milder form of a a fib. My impression is that with flutter the atria beat at a constant rapid rate, while with fibrillation the rate is variable. They seemed surprised that I hadn't noticed any ill effects, but I hadn't. My only clue was that my pulse was around 75, and that was weird because its normally around 38. Apparently my atria were beating at 250 and the ventricles had chosen to beat at one fourth of that rate.
I was referred to an electrophysiologist. He said that cardioversion seldom fixed the problem for more than a few months and I didn't like the idea of drugs, so he did an ablation. A hot wire is threaded into your heart from an artery in your groin. The tissue that is causing the short circuit is found and then destroyed by electrical current. It worked. I was back to diving in a couple of weeks.
Than almost a year later I was schedule for more surgery and had another pre-op clearance, and sure enough my flutter had returned, so the guy did another ablation. Rather than wait until I'm scheduled for some other future surgery, he has me come in for an EKG every three months, and so far I'm fine. Both the atria and ventricles are ticking along in the high 30 beats per minute.
I'm not sure this has added anything of value, but I won't bill you.
A couple of years ago (at age 72) I was scheduled for prostate cancer surgery and went to my primary physician for pre-op clearance. He did an EKG but no one read it before I left the office. The next day I was out on my boat free dive spearfishing, and just before I jumped in the water, I got a call telling me that I had to come back for another EKG. I told them that I was diving and would come in the next day, but they seemed to think it was important. So while I did dive a couple of spots, I went in early so as to get to the office before it closed. Another EKG confirmed that I had atrial flutter, which is a milder form of a a fib. My impression is that with flutter the atria beat at a constant rapid rate, while with fibrillation the rate is variable. They seemed surprised that I hadn't noticed any ill effects, but I hadn't. My only clue was that my pulse was around 75, and that was weird because its normally around 38. Apparently my atria were beating at 250 and the ventricles had chosen to beat at one fourth of that rate.
I was referred to an electrophysiologist. He said that cardioversion seldom fixed the problem for more than a few months and I didn't like the idea of drugs, so he did an ablation. A hot wire is threaded into your heart from an artery in your groin. The tissue that is causing the short circuit is found and then destroyed by electrical current. It worked. I was back to diving in a couple of weeks.
Than almost a year later I was schedule for more surgery and had another pre-op clearance, and sure enough my flutter had returned, so the guy did another ablation. Rather than wait until I'm scheduled for some other future surgery, he has me come in for an EKG every three months, and so far I'm fine. Both the atria and ventricles are ticking along in the high 30 beats per minute.
I'm not sure this has added anything of value, but I won't bill you.
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Similar experience to mine around ten years ago , except the hot wire method did not work, so a few months later they repeated the procedure with a freezing wire. It did work and I have had no further problems. Although they managed to freeze a nerve that operated half my diaphragm. My diaphragm was paralised for a few weeks (they said it could take 6 months to fix itself). But as the procedure was too new they could not be sure sure of the statistics. Apparently I was only the second that had a frozen nerve.I just now noticed this thread, so I'll add some of my experience that may or not be relevant.
A couple of years ago (at age 72) I was scheduled for prostate cancer surgery and went to my primary physician for pre-op clearance. He did an EKG but no one read it before I left the office. The next day I was out on my boat free dive spearfishing, and just before I jumped in the water, I got a call telling me that I had to come back for another EKG. I told them that I was diving and would come in the next day, but they seemed to think it was important. So while I did dive a couple of spots, I went in early so as to get to the office before it closed. Another EKG confirmed that I had atrial flutter, which is a milder form of a a fib. My impression is that with flutter the atria beat at a constant rapid rate, while with fibrillation the rate is variable. They seemed surprised that I hadn't noticed any ill effects, but I hadn't. My only clue was that my pulse was around 75, and that was weird because its normally around 38. Apparently my atria were beating at 250 and the ventricles had chosen to beat at one fourth of that rate.
I was referred to an electrophysiologist. He said that cardioversion seldom fixed the problem for more than a few months and I didn't like the idea of drugs, so he did an ablation. A hot wire is threaded into your heart from an artery in your groin. The tissue that is causing the short circuit is found and then destroyed by electrical current. It worked. I was back to diving in a couple of weeks.
Than almost a year later I was schedule for more surgery and had another pre-op clearance, and sure enough my flutter had returned, so the guy did another ablation. Rather than wait until I'm scheduled for some other future surgery, he has me come in for an EKG every three months, and so far I'm fine. Both the atria and ventricles are ticking along in the high 30 beats per minute.
I'm not sure this has added anything of value, but I won't bill you.
Did you do any breath holds when your diaphragm was frozen?
I'm curious about contractions in this state.
Also, we're you able to take a "full inhale"? And idea about lung volume in this state?
My dive buddy last night was contracting on the 5m descent and when I suggested a fix, she asked if I could paralyze her diaphragm.
I'm curious about contractions in this state.
Also, we're you able to take a "full inhale"? And idea about lung volume in this state?
My dive buddy last night was contracting on the 5m descent and when I suggested a fix, she asked if I could paralyze her diaphragm.
I did no more freediving. I could only passively breathe in and not take deep breaths. One half of my diaphragm was raised into the full exhale position and could not draw air. I could not get myself puffed as I was not able to breathe in hard enough. By the time I was well enough to freedive, I had got back to open water swimming to get fit again. A paralized diaphragm may not be able to do contractions.....that is very interesting.
Hi Guys - Rik, I checked on flecainide, and you are right, it does have hectic drawbacks if initial prognosis is wrong, so wont go there. The abalation Ive also been told about, but to be honest, its only on some freedives that ive been effected, and the idea of unndergoing this procedure seems a bit hectic. I may just go slowly, in warmer water, and see what transpires.
Nigel, could you elaborate on what you discovered about increased risk of stroke/cardiac problems due to increased RBC count? I am not concerned enough about this to stop freediving/spearing, but I'm beginning to suspect that my blood pressure (typically comes in as 'borderline hypertensive' despite a lifetime of regular cardio, low body fat, healthy diet) is linked to my freediving and the resulting hematocrit/RBC levels which I was told were abnormally high--but not for a high level freediver.
And yeah, having done a lot of training with a pulse oxy meter, apnea--at least in my case--puts a lot of stress on the heart, regularly going from 40BPM to over 100BPM in the space of seconds. I am not especially worried since I started serious apnea training from a place of high cardio fitness, but well, I don't consider serious apnea to be perfectly harmless for everyone.
I was diagnosed with Atrial fibrillation at 37 years [9 years ago]. In 9 years I had three or four episodes of serious fibrillation, so I guess that is not chronic . One morning I was sleeping and when I was woke-up by my wife I told her that I'm not feeling well. I was dizzy and had some strange weakness. I did go to the hospital and they put me some device on my finger. Afterwards they did a perfusion in my vein and tried to stop my irregular heart-beats for about 4 hours or so. Was Saturday. Next Monday I was going to go on a diving trip in Egypt and the plane tickets was already purchased. What to do?
I leaved the hospital on my one risk and signature and did the trip. Now I-m not saying that what I did was good or bad, but in 7 days of free and scuba diving I felt perfectly. Since then I had one more serious episode of this kind after a pool static. I was able to recover myself without any kind of hospitalization. In total I had only two episodes of fib. linked to free-diving and all of them was when I was in bad fitness for doing dives. And I felt that I was unfitted those days. Is important that I never felt the symptoms while diving, but after a wile [10-15min]. I have 46 now and I had not any symptoms in the last five or six years, although this was the period when I did the longest and the deepest free-dives in all my life. I heard from some medical doctors that Atrial fibrillation is a disease that a man can live with. But of course those medics never heard of Free-diving at all...
And to answer to the first post in this thread:
I don't state here that anyone having that kind of problems shouldn't go to a doctor.
Dive but don't be stressed while doing it [I noticed that this is important]
I leaved the hospital on my one risk and signature and did the trip. Now I-m not saying that what I did was good or bad, but in 7 days of free and scuba diving I felt perfectly. Since then I had one more serious episode of this kind after a pool static. I was able to recover myself without any kind of hospitalization. In total I had only two episodes of fib. linked to free-diving and all of them was when I was in bad fitness for doing dives. And I felt that I was unfitted those days. Is important that I never felt the symptoms while diving, but after a wile [10-15min]. I have 46 now and I had not any symptoms in the last five or six years, although this was the period when I did the longest and the deepest free-dives in all my life. I heard from some medical doctors that Atrial fibrillation is a disease that a man can live with. But of course those medics never heard of Free-diving at all...
And to answer to the first post in this thread:
I don't state here that anyone having that kind of problems shouldn't go to a doctor.
Dive but don't be stressed while doing it
[I noticed that this is important]Hello all - I know this is an old thread but an eye opener for me in light of recent occurrences. I am 61 years old and have been playing at freediving for many years without ill affect. The other day I went out on my kayak and did some dives in Lake Erie in 28 ft of water, 9 or 10 dives in total, enjoyed a wonderful evening on the water. That evening I had two beers and relaxed at home when at around 9 PM I had symptoms very similar to waht Nigel described in the initial post of this thread. My heart could not find it's rhythm - inefficient pounding, missed beats, irregular rhythm, light headedness, could not get my breath, dizzy. I did not go to the hospital, and by morning it was back to normal.
However, here is my thinking - when a recreational activity affects the heart function in such a way - it is a warning, and to my mind, this is the end of my freediving. I can't see it any other way.
However, here is my thinking - when a recreational activity affects the heart function in such a way - it is a warning, and to my mind, this is the end of my freediving. I can't see it any other way.
I would go get checked out by a doctor. It may or may not be the end of your freediving but it might also be indicator of a developing condition if you have been diving for a while with no issues. I'm very much not a doctor or fit to give medical advice but to my understanding most divers who discover it are told on examination that they've always had it and freediving (usually deeper or harder than previously) aggravates it. Less common seems to be someone who is diving the same profiles they ordinarily do and then develops it.
While DYN training last week I went into acute AFib RVR. 50yo, no history of heart issues, practice healthy diet and exercise, and do any drugs, alcohol, steroids, etc. This was a very typical workout, nothing new or unusual. Erratic HR to 190+ sent me to the ER and overnight stay in the hospital. I was given Amiodarone and Eliquis via IV to control the HR, I will be taking orally for 3 weeks. Nine hours later I was back to. Formal but with minor chest pain from the hyperactive heart. I’ve been doing fairly intense training for 3 months preparing for Instructor Course and was in tapering mode. Go figure…. 2 Cardiologists have said I may continue Freediving fully once off the medication, but it was strongly recommended I travel with the medication just in case another AFib attack occurs. Cause of the event is not conclusive but I was a little tired from lack of sleep before the training, and I learned from the many tests my electrolyte levels were dangerously low. This event was disturbing to say the least.