Best ballast for carbon roller to lower recoil

[Steve239]

Anyone got any thoughts on the best ballast to lower recoil for a carbon roller 1200 (18mm band + 16mm kicker - 8mm shaft)? Have melted down lead for both the rear and muzzle but just wondering of there is any other ideas?

 

[Ramon Fernandez]

Anyone got any thoughts on the best ballast to lower recoil for a carbon roller 1200 (18mm band + 16mm kicker - 8mm shaft)? Have melted down lead for both the rear and muzzle but just wondering of there is any other ideas?

Hola

¿Puedes poner algunas fotos del fusil? Can you put some pictures of the rifle?

 

[Steve239]

Hola

¿Puedes poner algunas fotos del fusil? Can you put some pictures of the rifle?

I dont have any as im away working at the moment. I know Aimrite put some kind of epoxy fill in their guns im wondering if that helps with the recoil?

 

[foxfish]

I dont have any as im away working at the moment. I know Aimrite put some kind of epoxy fill in their guns im wondering if that helps with the recoil?

How does the gun float at the moment, how does it sit in the water at your hunting depth?
Mass and weight can reduce recoil but most carbon guns is designed to be the opposite = light and small profile.
High mass wooden guns hardly jump at all but carbon tube guns kick like a mule.
You could add buoyant mass to the gun and then add more weight to compensate ie some wooden wings.

 

[Steve239]

How does the gun float at the moment, how does it sit in the water at your hunting depth?
Mass and weight can reduce recoil but most carbon guns is designed to be the opposite = light and small profile.
High mass wooden guns hardly jump at all but carbon tube guns kick like a mule.
You could add buoyant mass to the gun and then add more weight to compensate ie some wooden wings.

Floats fine without the shaft on surface and seems to sit and track well at depth when im holding it. Its a cuttlefish design barrel. Im just wonder if its either overpowered (hence recoil) or the shaft cld be a touch heavy as shots seem to go low. Mainly im just wondering if there something to add inside the barrel to add some weight and reduce the recoil? That or try a 7.5 shaft.

 

[Steve239]

Floats fine without the shaft on surface and seems to sit and track well at depth when im holding it. Its a cuttlefish design barrel. Im just wonder if its either overpowered (hence recoil) or the shaft cld be a touch heavy as shots seem to go low. Mainly im just wondering if there something to add inside the barrel to add some weight and reduce the recoil? That or try a 7.5 shaft.

I figured with a jacked up 18mm on the roller plus the 16mm kicker though its should have the power to shoot an 8mm shaft. Hence why im thinking its the recoil

 

[Ramon Fernandez]

The important thing is the balance does not have to sink just must
stay on head surface and head inclined 45 degrees

there is another place to house lead
inside the lower grip,

if it is made of carbon lined wood.

or if the plastic handle is hollow too

Filled with Low Density Polyurethane Casting Foam (35 kg / m3)

 

[Steve239]

The important thing is the balance does not have to sink just must
stay on head surface and head inclined 45 degrees

there is another place to house lead
inside the lower grip,

if it is made of carbon lined wood.

or if the plastic handle is hollow too

Filled with Low Density Polyurethane Casting Foam (35 kg / m3)

Are you suggesting using the foam in just the handle or through out the entire barrel?

 

[foxfish]

I just re read your opening post and wonder what a 16mm kicker is?
I am guessing you are using two bands, if you just stick to the single roller band there should be a very noticeable drop in recoil and quite possibly a more accurate shot!

 

[Steve239]

I just re read your opening post and wonder what a 16mm kicker is?
I am guessing you are using two bands, if you just stick to the single roller band there should be a very noticeable drop in recoil and quite possibly a more accurate shot!

Yeah so the 18mm is on the roller and the kicker is just a regular band extended from the muzzle to give it extra velocity on take off. Ive tried just with the 18mm without the kicker still seems to shoot low, but im wondering if the 8mm shaft is just to much weight causing it to drop and perhaps 7.5 is better?

 

[foxfish]

Well theses things can be really complicated and there is very little information to refer too but I am pretty confident the gun will work better with only the single band.
8mm is a serous spear, I only use 6.5 or 7mm
It might also be worth experimenting with the small internal diameter 16mm super stretch band .
A few years back I swapped over from 16 to 14mm small id bands with 3.6 x stretch and found my guns (90-100cm) worked very smoothly with less recoil and at least equal power.
Many years ago when the forum was on fire with hundreds of post a day there was a very interesting thread about ‘out of season pool target shooting’
The guys found the most accurate gun was a single 16mm band 90cm tube gun!
Even in the open class ‘any gun category’ but as soon as an extra band was added the guns went right off target but the single band guns were winning against three band 120cms
Then roller guns came along and started winning everything but the same thing happened .... as soon as an extra band was added the guns went right off target and in some cases even lost range!

 

[Ramon Fernandez]

I dont have any as im away working at the moment. I know Aimrite put some kind of epoxy fill in their guns im wondering if that helps with the recoil?

all foam barrel and on the grip inside if you need lead for balance

 

[Ramon Fernandez]

Yeah so the 18mm is on the roller and the kicker is just a regular band extended from the muzzle to give it extra velocity on take off. Ive tried just with the 18mm without the kicker still seems to shoot low, but im wondering if the 8mm shaft is just to much weight causing it to drop and perhaps 7.5 is better?

Well theses things can be really complicated and there is very little information to refer too but I am pretty confident the gun will work better with only the single band.
8mm is a serous spear, I only use 6.5 or 7mm
It might also be worth experimenting with the small internal diameter 16mm super stretch band .
A few years back I swapped over from 16 to 14mm small id bands with 3.6 x stretch and found my guns (90-100cm) worked very smoothly with less recoil and at least equal power.
Many years ago when the forum was on fire with hundreds of post a day there was a very interesting thread about ‘out of season pool target shooting’
The guys found the most accurate gun was a single 16mm band 90cm tube gun!
Even in the open class ‘any gun category’ but as soon as an extra band was added the guns went right off target but the single band guns were winning against three band 120cms
Then roller guns came along and started winning everything but the same thing happened .... as soon as an extra band was added the guns went right off target and in some cases even lost range!

Bueno Yo solucione mejore este sistema de gomas, en realidad fue mi Padre rip en los 60 este sistema de gomas 0 retroceso, 0 cabeceo
tiene que ver con el movimiento de las gomas y la cantidad y el diámetro

Well, I solved this rubber system, it was actually

my father ripped in the 60s devised this rubber system 0 backslide, 0 pitch

has to do with the movement of the elastics
the number of them
and the diameter

you can use 16mm elastics which are actually 15'5mm

6.75mm or 7mm rod
I advise you to use these pulleys http://pescasub.es/accesorios-fusiles/2102-poleas-cristal-ermes.html

 

[Steve239]

Well theses things can be really complicated and there is very little information to refer too but I am pretty confident the gun will work better with only the single band.
8mm is a serous spear, I only use 6.5 or 7mm
It might also be worth experimenting with the small internal diameter 16mm super stretch band .
A few years back I swapped over from 16 to 14mm small id bands with 3.6 x stretch and found my guns (90-100cm) worked very smoothly with less recoil and at least equal power.
Many years ago when the forum was on fire with hundreds of post a day there was a very interesting thread about ‘out of season pool target shooting’
The guys found the most accurate gun was a single 16mm band 90cm tube gun!
Even in the open class ‘any gun category’ but as soon as an extra band was added the guns went right off target but the single band guns were winning against three band 120cms
Then roller guns came along and started winning everything but the same thing happened .... as soon as an extra band was added the guns went right off target and in some cases even lost range!

Ok thanks mate. Might try with the 7.5 shaft and just the 18mm roller see how that shoots if not drop it to some 16mm small ID. You heard much about filling barrels with the low density PU foam?

 

[Steve239]

all foam barrel and on the grip inside if you need lead for balance

Sounds good thanks for your help. Few things to try out now i guess!

 

[foxfish]

Ok thanks mate. Might try with the 7.5 shaft and just the 18mm roller see how that shoots if not drop it to some 16mm small ID. You heard much about filling barrels with the low density PU foam?

No but I can see that filling the barrel with a neutrally buoyant material would increase the mass.
Just build your self a woody and sell the carbon !

 

[Steve239]

No but I can see that filling the barrel with a neutrally buoyant material would increase the mass.
Just build your self a woody and sell the carbon !

Haha oh ive got a wooden canon, but i thought with all this spare isolation time i may aswell try and sort out the carbon aswell...good for mackerel, wahoo and other bluewaters.
Thanks for the advice

 

[Leander]

I always wondered about the rollergun. The rubber is quite a lot of mass, rotating on the roller, that way creating a constant downward force at the muzzle. I would assume that while this would actually drop the end of the shaft, creating a high shot, you subconsciously create a counter force during the shot to correct the drop, but then as the shaft leaves and the rubber stops, you jerk the gun up as you would still have this counter force in your wrist, kicking up the end of the shaft and that way creating low shot. *I dont have a normal roller gun, so this is just a theory. (I use an invert-roller which has too little mass going around the rollers to create any shock at all.)

The kicker for sure creates quite a shock. Is a kicker there just to start the spear? If so, don't have it run all the way to the muzzle. Tie it halfway, or perhaps offset the kicker with some string between the muzzle and the bands?

 

[Steve239]

I always wondered about the rollergun. The rubber is quite a lot of mass, rotating on the roller, that way creating a constant downward force at the muzzle. I would assume that while this would actually drop the end of the shaft, creating a high shot, you subconsciously create a counter force during the shot to correct the drop, but then as the shaft leaves and the rubber stops, you jerk the gun up as you would still have this counter force in your wrist, kicking up the end of the shaft and that way creating low shot. *I dont have a normal roller gun, so this is just a theory. (I use an invert-roller which has too little mass going around the rollers to create any shock at all.)

The kicker for sure creates quite a shock. Is a kicker there just to start the spear? If so, don't have it run all the way to the muzzle. Tie it halfway, or perhaps offset the kicker with some string between the muzzle and the bands?

The kicker is probably an inch back from the muzzle itself. Yeah i thought it wld give an 8mm shaft a bit more pick up as it is a heavier shaft.

Your theory makes sense from a practical point of view, ive never heard of anyone testing it so wld be hard to know. My larger wooden gun is an invert and it shoots great, but then again its wooden and invert so you would imagine there wld be not much recoil at all.

 

[foxfish]

Haha oh ive got a wooden canon, but i thought with all this spare isolation time i may aswell try and sort out the carbon aswell...good for mackerel, wahoo and other bluewaters.
Thanks for the advice

Or get yourself a dry barrel air gun, that is what I use 90% of the time.