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Best preparation for Static

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.

fpernett

Well-Known Member
Nov 7, 2001
832
102
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About Andy

Talking about Andy I saw once a video of him in guinnes primetime, and He made 6' while playing a kids game underwater.
My brother has his own method to distract mind.
Anyone else uses some method to distract mind?
 

Guss

New Member
Sep 10, 2002
54
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daily trainig

I agree with the idea that daily training is the best to achieve good results; at least this is my own personal experience. I haven’t found that training the other day is better. For daily training the only thing I must take care of is to adjust my training program; total workout time, quantity and difficulty of the apneas thinking that it will be maid day by day during the hole week otherwise I can “burn” myself. If I train not crossing the line of my psychological limits I notice that each day I can make my apneas a bit more comfortable and relaxed, daily training improve the quality of my apneas.

Agustín.
 

immerlustig

BlueSkunk
Aug 17, 2002
597
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question about daily and hard static training:

i'm training statics regularly for 1 month now (before only 1-3 times per week) and went past 6 min recently (2 weeks ago).
i believe the reason for that progress is because i started doing harder statics, pushing a lot more contractions and trying to go towards samba/bo limit.
since my pb of 6:30 i did 3 max static sessions, on 2 of those i went past 6min.

i noticed some things: firstly:after the session (1 hour) i feel quite exhausted and also the next day i really don't feel like doing statics at all. i'm all right with diving, though. then on the following day i feel quite refreshed and physically able to do statics again. so in my case i feel i gain a bit from this static rest day.
secondly: usually after statics i supplement vitamin c,e and a. after one other max static session i didn't and felt quite different. it seemed to me that my thinking and my concentration was slower tham usual. after my latest max static set i had those vitamins again and felt fine the rest of the day.

does anybody experience something similar (lack of concentration afterwards)? is there any connection to the build up of free radicals?
does anybody maintain a 6+ min level by doing less than daily statics?

cheers guys

roland
:cool:
 

Fred S.

New Member
Sep 22, 2001
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theory on training hard every day

In my attempts to analyse all aspects of Static Apnea, I came up with the following theories on the daily training of hard statics.

For the body it would probably be very beneficial. The body reacts by adapting to the hypoxic / hypercapnic states you put yourself in. And in contrast to physical training, there is no muscle fatigue so physically you don't need a rest day for recovery. The thing that is probably very important here is that the stimulus should not be exactly the same every time you train, because it is a known fact that the adapting systems get lazy if you do so.

For the mind it's another thing. If you do hard statics every day, you are fighting the internal voice that says that you need to breathe. This more or less results in a build-up of frustration. At first you won't notice this negative energy because of your strong motivation and great results, but when you have a stressfull day or if the results are a little disappointing for a couple of days, the frustration grows and becomes too strong after a longer training period. Usually this way of training will show strong ups and downs in performances instead of a steady increase of results. The time between the consecutive ups (or downs) is probably dependant upon the mental toughness of the individual.
Perhaps you can compare this to overweighted people who do rigid diets for a long period. They are fighting the internal voice that says they have to eat and they can hold on because of the strong motivation and the great results. But after a while the build-up of frustration gets too big and becomes stronger than their motivation, etc. They also show a lot of ups and downs in their results (weight).

So perhaps the key to succes is finding (and maintaining) a balance between effort and frustration build-up.

Fred S.
 

AltSaint

Pipe and Flippers
Dec 29, 2002
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immerlustig - I haven't reached 6m PB (yet :cool: ) but that lack of concentration thing after long immersion definitely affects me. To be honest, I'm like that all the time anyway, but after statics I'm even worse. I just wander around forgetting where I've put bits of kit etc.

For my wet PB I had someone spotting me, with taps every 15 seconds after 3m30s. When I came up, I thought I was just past 5m, but I'd reached past 5m15s. Managed to lose 15 seconds somewhere. Next time I want to lose 45 secs....
 

Alun

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2001
763
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various comments....

alastair...
the blood shift is due to a pressure difference between the air pressure inside your lungs and the ambient (water/air) pressure. the circulating blood will tend to accumulate around the lungs (not actually inside), which reduces the lung volume and equalises the pressure. this doesnt happen instantaneuosly, as Eric suggested. it should depend on the flow of blood, ie. HR.

if you dont think you could have walked in a straight line, then that would be classed as a samba/LMC. you dont have to 'shake/shiver' to be disqualified under AIDA rules, as far as i know. being 'unresponsive' is enough.

Eric...
really? on the rare occasions i've done totally empty lung dry statics, i've never reached a point where i feel that the pressure has been equalised (by blood shift). i understand that given enough time the pressure should be equalised by a shift of blood. probably depends on the pressure difference and circulatory resistance and HR. until this happens you could be experiencing a dangerous level of negative pressure.

i would go along with what Andy LeSauce said. i did my best static times after a period of 3-4 weeks of training- with almost daily practice.

FredS....
you made a good point about 'lazy adaptation'. i think it's good to vary your training. this is another thing i dont really like about the static tables.

alun
 

alastair

Blue Member
Aug 30, 2002
157
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118
Nice comments Alun - thanks.

I wonder how, in a state of deep self-hypnosis, you know when to stop?

I have a feeling that my self-induced relaxation was supplimented by the lowering levels of O2, so when I did release the breath I was unable to snap straight out of it.

I suppose you need practice in order to get it right.

I feel a little disappointed with my PB result too now. Do you all 'judge' yourselves according to AIDA rules when setting your PBs on the sofa, or are PBs meant to be set when really pushing it a bit too far?

I guess that it's possible to use the increasing frequency of 'taps' from your partner during a wet static to 'wake yourself up' a bit.

Does anyone listen to music during statics (either real music or just external sound like a voice or white noise)?

Al
 

alastair

Blue Member
Aug 30, 2002
157
33
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P.S.

I always thought it was odd that blood would accumulate INSIDE the lungs. I'm pretty sure that I formed this idea ready a post or article on Deeper Blue. Someone (who sounded knowledgeable...) said that coughing up blood or plasma after a deep dive may have been due to incomplete reabsorption following a strong blood-shift.

Pipin also writes on his website that he "welcomes the sensation of his lungs drowning in liquid". I guess this just reinforced my confusion!

Cheers

Al
 

Alun

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2001
763
83
118
i think it's a good thing to let yourself 'float away' during static. time always seems to pass really quickly. it seems to me that when in that state you have a lower level of conscious thought and self-awareness. this is fine, unless you've hyperventilated, in which case, it's bad! without a strong urge to breathe it can be very easy to drift into severe hypoxia without even realising.... before you know it your buddy is dragging you out of the pool! :hungover

doing wet statics, being warm and closing your eyes will all increase your chance of slipping over the edge after hyperventilating, because all of them help you 'float away'... or whatever you want to call it.
if you dont hyperventilate, then the urge to breathe should 'wake you up' from that state well before you become hypoxic. being more self-aware in the latter stages of the static will help ensure that you come up when you should... yet another reason not to hyperventilate.

personally, i do judge my results according to the AIDA rules. not because i'm really into AIDA or their competitions (because i dont compete). it just so happens that my personal philosophy regarding samba is exactly the same as AIDA. i always do everything i can to ensure that i never samba or b/o.
i've never blacked out, but have had 2-3 medium sambas (shakey arms/head etc) and about 8-10 small sambas (slight tremor/mental fuzziness). most of these occurred during my first year of freediving when i was in the early stages of learning apnea - now beginning my fourth year. they all happened after statics/dynamics because i only ever push myself when i have the option to end the apnea at any time - not the case for deep diving.

i dont personally know of anyone who considers sambas to be ok and valid, but there are people around who take this approach, eg FREE members. that's ok - everyone's entitled to do things their own way. in general, when people quote PBs, i take them to mean without samba. i think most people do?

never tried music. could work well for some people, not for others? the ladies static record holder listened to a radio station during her attempt. i like the idea of white noise. that should help the passage of time. regular music could tend to reinforce your sense of time.

alastair.... are you British?... Scottish perhaps?


cheers
alun
 

Guss

New Member
Sep 10, 2002
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Fred

I agree with you about the problems of the hard daily training and I must say that I have suffered myself several times this cyclic lost of motivation after some frustrating days. But I keep my daily training. During these days I just reduce the difficulty of my apneas and increase a bit the quantity of them. For example; my PB now is 5.45” (I can feel that 6 min is not far away) and when I finish my daily series of O2, CO2 and when every thing is ok I try at least to do 3 apneas up of 5.15”, but when I’m very tired because my dynamic training made the day after or just because I’m a bit demotivated, I try to make at least 6 x 4.30” and sometimes some of this apneas arrive to 5 min. That helps me in the psychological aspect. At least I can feel that I have been able to win my own laziness or demotivation, and this soft training keep my apneic condition ready for the next days that for sure will be better. Psychological aspects also matters.

Agustín.
 

alastair

Blue Member
Aug 30, 2002
157
33
118
I hope I'm not hijacking the thread...

I'd quite like to know about everyone's attitude to hyperventillating.

Many do it for statics (I think...), but not everyone.

Most strongly avoid it when diving, but some do in order to balance their alkalinity or something (I think that this was from Eric...).

Maybe I should do a poll...

I hyperventillate :

1. Always, I like the oxygen buzz, and I don't care about the possible ramifications
2. Usually, but I'm fully aware of my personal body chemistry and can predict the results.
3. Only in competitions when there are safety divers
4. Never when diving, but always in statics
5. Only at the beginning of the static warm up to ensure I'm well ventillated.
6. Not during the warm up, but just before my max attempt.
7. Never, I don't believe in upsetting the natural balance of my body.

What do yogis do?

Al

P.S. Alun - yes I'm British. My mother's a scot, but I grew up in England. I even lived in Pembrokeshire for a couple of years!!
 

alastair

Blue Member
Aug 30, 2002
157
33
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Guss,

How did your injury this summer effect your training?

Are you 100% now?

Al
 

ivan

looking for deeper water
Jan 26, 2002
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hi Alastair

I agree with 1,2,4,5,6 never been in a comp but if I did I reckon I would hyperventilate.

cheers
 

Guss

New Member
Sep 10, 2002
54
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Thanks Al

I’m OK now, Al.

During the 2 months it took me get recovered I was fully training dry statics and dynamics, so not bad at all.

Thanks you very much because your care about my health.

Guss
 

Guss

New Member
Sep 10, 2002
54
7
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CO2 tolerance

Hi Al,

I have read again tour first post in this thread where you speak about your new PB when warming up with neg apneas. Let my share with you my personal point of view about your words because I have been thinking about it this weekend.

Considering your actual level in statics (you told you never cross before the 2 min) I think that neg apneas can be good like one experimentation to see what happens but I don’t recommend you the empty lungs apneas as the base of your warning routine or your training routine. If it is difficult for you keeping your breath hold more than 2 min what I consider it must be now the base of your training routine is the CO2 tolerance. Decreasing ventilation time tables or fix ventilation time tables can help. I personally recommend you the fix ones because you can save a lot of training time and you get earlier and better results.

Empty lungs statics are good to train hypoxia but they have nothing to see with hipercapnea. In apneas below 4 min it is difficult to arrive to hypoxic situations so my personal opinion is that it has not very much sense to practice this kind of apneas when been at this level. I think the base of your training now must be the CO2 tolerance and very important learning to get relax because when you say in your post “Considering I'd really never gone more than 2 minutes before” I think in a healthy people this is more related with a lack of relaxation than any other consideration. At least it was with me when I started one year before and I was in the same situation you are now. I remember 2.50” was my wall during the first month and the reason was only a lack of relaxation.

Agustín.
 
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Reactions: ivan

alastair

Blue Member
Aug 30, 2002
157
33
118
Thanks for the advice Guss, and sorry about this long reply...

I totally agree that relaxation has been the key to my improvement and I understand that once this has been acheived there are a new set of mechanisms that must be faced.

I admit that I was ignorant as to these mechanisms (CO2 build-up vs O2 depletion) and I knew nothing about the training required to tolerate them.

From your post I am assuming that the following is true :

1. The basis for statics is relaxation. Everyone has their own techniques, and as it is purely mental, it is possible to learn how to relax quite quickly.

2. Beyond a certain point (for me >2 minutes) the next factor is CO2 tolerance. It is the CO2 that makes you want to breathe, and the body can be made to tolerate this. Like cardio-vascular fitness, this requires dedication and training.

3. At a certain point (for me somewhere around 5 minutes), decreasing levels of O2 induce hypoxia, and you risk Samba or blackout. This is also physical, and the negative dives / exhale statics help to prepare you.


If these statements are correct, then I guess my previous question about hyperventillation becomes important.

As I understand it, hyperventillation minimizes your CO2 levels (thus delaying the 'need to breathe') and maximizes your O2 levels (thus delaying the onset of hypoxia).

So, my progress from 2 minutes to > 5 minutes was purely due to the fact that I learned to relax, and that I hyperventillated.

Unfortunately, as Alun points out, I'm now in a bad situation. By hyperventillating I have artificially changed the parameters by which the mechanisms work, without changing my body's tolerance. The result is that I see good progress up to a point, but it will be impossible for me to progress further without Samba / BO.

Perhaps most importantly, hyperventillating is only going to help my 'artificial' results (statics) and never my dives. I really need to follow your advice and train properly if my general freediving skills are to improve.

Cheers

Al
 

ivan

looking for deeper water
Jan 26, 2002
1,503
48
0
hi

Yep ive found that when I hyperventilate with statics it does nothing to improve your diving ability because you are doing what I call cheating statics. You are not working your C02 tolerance as Guss said with hyperventilating. On the other hand I love hyperventilation the feeling of no contractions for ages is far more comforting for me then to sit there and fight contractions for minutes.


cheers
 

immerlustig

BlueSkunk
Aug 17, 2002
597
90
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alastair

I totally agree that relaxation has been the key to my improvement and I understand that once this has been acheived there are a new set of mechanisms that must be faced.

i agree basically to this statement, but what i don't really believe is that relaxation is a part of training that ever will be finished.
of course i'm not freediving long enough to speak with authority, but it always is a main concern for me to make the best affort in relaxing as much as possible.
it often happens, that on a good day i sit there holding my breath, being very relaxed and at ease, and then after 2 min maybe my right shoulder drops down, and i realise that i wasn't aware of any tension in my shoulder at all.

what i like about doing statics, even though i cannot convert my static times to underwater times, is the fact that in my 1 hour of breathing and breathholding i practise and focus mainly on relaxation. and that helps me
to relax quicker in water.

guss

when you say empty lung statics train your low-o2 tolerance, are you doing them after hyperventilation? cause that is what i understood so far.

ivan

it seems you like to hyperventilate.
i personally prefer to rather train my ability to hold my contractions for longer. when diving this is a better indication of how i am. getting contractions at the turnaround point and knowing that i can easily hold lots of them, keeps me in a relaxed state of mind and it helps on a nice focused return to the surface. i agree with alun here that the urge to breathe shouldn't be removed.


p.s. hyperventilation to me means rapid full in and exhales until (almost) beginning of tingling arms etc.
i do breath deeply, though, as part of my breathup, but personally i don't call that hyperventilation.

cheerio

roland

:cool:
 
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