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C4 Monoflap Impressions
- Thread starterFondueset
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Thread Status: Hello
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Cool Mbuna. After you try it out for a week or so share your thoughts with us. I have one Monoflap left and was thinking about using it in the pool for dynamics. Chris mentioned warranty: C4 warranties all his products for 2 years against structural breakage and mfg defects. Their track record since introducing the VGR T700 carbon fibers is unheard in the industry for carbon fiber fins, he mentioned this a week ago:
Clear waters (which you have lot's of):wave
Clear waters (which you have lot's of):wave
I asked Marco of C4 more about his MonoFlap and it's intended use and this is what he replied:
Monoflap. It's a Monofin designed for open water diving. Its characteristics are that smooth and fast action. It’s not suitable for the pool where a rapid acceleration even at the expense of speed is important. On the comfort of our shoes do not think I have to tell you anything, you know it.
Monoflap. It's a Monofin designed for open water diving. Its characteristics are that smooth and fast action. It’s not suitable for the pool where a rapid acceleration even at the expense of speed is important. On the comfort of our shoes do not think I have to tell you anything, you know it.
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I agree on all points. A nice thing about the monoflap - in open water - is that you do not have to load up so much to get it going. The softness of the bottom part of the blade makes it very responsive to relatively light movements- you can almost comfortably tread water with it .
Unless he's talking about finswimming and surface swimming between dives, I disagree about this completely. It's the other way around - for CWT you need acceleration because you're always putting in a lot of effort at low speeds, to overcome buoyancy. In the pool you are going slowly the whole time with very little resistance. It only takes a kick or two to come up to speed after each turn (even the pushoff can bring you up to 1 m/s) and from then on you're holding a steady speed with little power input. The monoflap seems much too long for CWT and wouldn't be much good off the surface or bottom. Might be ok in the pool though.
Hey Dave,
I just heard back from Will - he echoed my views - in that the monoflap is better than we both thought at first glance. He also mentioned he thought maybe a nice touring fin.
It wasn't bad on the way up with a bigger kick to activate the stiff part of the blade - but not like my tropol - which always feels like it has power to spare and which, basically, I just forgot I was wearing most of the time.
For dynamic I think you would need to go with and gentle continuous stroke rather than kick and glide. You can get into a nice small waveform with it once you get going. Be interesting to work with that - slow, low drag swimming. In dynamic with a normal fin you are using acceleration - with the kick/glide cycle. This would not be so good with the monoflap because acceleration is not fast. It will give you sustained thrust with a very slow, soft kick however. Might be interesting to explore in dynamics.
In vertical dives it is not all that bad. theres the entry and a few kicks to get negative - then it is quite good for low energy kicking and gliding.
I am not sure what Marco means by fast action - it is quite a smooth and steady swimming fin - by fast action he may mean rapid changes in direction. In this respect you can really do some things that are very awkward with a conventional mono. It is, for example, much nicer if you are finessing your position while stalking fish.
I think this fin was designed with spearfishing in mind.But I wonder about a low amp/energy wave for dynamic.
I just heard back from Will - he echoed my views - in that the monoflap is better than we both thought at first glance. He also mentioned he thought maybe a nice touring fin.
It wasn't bad on the way up with a bigger kick to activate the stiff part of the blade - but not like my tropol - which always feels like it has power to spare and which, basically, I just forgot I was wearing most of the time.
For dynamic I think you would need to go with and gentle continuous stroke rather than kick and glide. You can get into a nice small waveform with it once you get going. Be interesting to work with that - slow, low drag swimming. In dynamic with a normal fin you are using acceleration - with the kick/glide cycle. This would not be so good with the monoflap because acceleration is not fast. It will give you sustained thrust with a very slow, soft kick however. Might be interesting to explore in dynamics.
In vertical dives it is not all that bad. theres the entry and a few kicks to get negative - then it is quite good for low energy kicking and gliding.
I am not sure what Marco means by fast action - it is quite a smooth and steady swimming fin - by fast action he may mean rapid changes in direction. In this respect you can really do some things that are very awkward with a conventional mono. It is, for example, much nicer if you are finessing your position while stalking fish.
I think this fin was designed with spearfishing in mind.But I wonder about a low amp/energy wave for dynamic.
Why would you do low energy kicking and gliding on a CWT dive, except for a brief period from, say, 20-30m before entering the glide? There's nothing very low-energy about a CWT ascent. Note that many of the CWT divers now want fins that are even shorter than the standard mono dimensions - certainly not longer.
I'm sure it's ok, it just seems like a thoroughly uninteresting fin - if I wanted to dive deep I'd use a real mono; if I was spearfishing then I'd use bifins. This is kind of in between, doing neither job particularly well.
I'm sure it's ok, it just seems like a thoroughly uninteresting fin - if I wanted to dive deep I'd use a real mono; if I was spearfishing then I'd use bifins. This is kind of in between, doing neither job particularly well.
I was talking about the trip down. I don't think the monoflap is very good for CWT. It might be interesting for dynamic.
Essentially, I agree with you - though you could look at it from the other side and say - it has more power than bifins - but is easier to use and more maneuverable than a normal monofin. The guys who tried it at the blue whole reviewed it as 'fun' - across the board. In order not to influence them I told them I thought it sucked
I'm of the short and stiff school for cwt myself. My Tropol is more that way than my other monos.
For those of us with some serious time with monofins I think the monoflap will remain a hard sell. It does go surprisingly well though and I certainly prefer it to bifins - which are just gross.
Essentially, I agree with you - though you could look at it from the other side and say - it has more power than bifins - but is easier to use and more maneuverable than a normal monofin. The guys who tried it at the blue whole reviewed it as 'fun' - across the board. In order not to influence them I told them I thought it sucked
I'm of the short and stiff school for cwt myself. My Tropol is more that way than my other monos.
For those of us with some serious time with monofins I think the monoflap will remain a hard sell. It does go surprisingly well though and I certainly prefer it to bifins - which are just gross.
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My Monoflap arrived yesterday and unfortunately the rubber shoes were just too big even with 3mil neoprene socks on. Mark agreed to swap them out so it will be another week before I can take it out again. Nonetheless I had to try it out and spent an hour playing around with it in the water in Poipu on the south shore here.
Right off the bat surface swimming felt very natural and impressive. I am certain of keeping a high rate of speed up for longer and with less effort with the Monoflap over against my Finis Competitor. The Monoflap performed better in the surf as well- another surprise as I thought I would really miss the power of my Competitor but again it was the surface performace that made it better. With the Competitor I normally dive underwater, gain some speed up and then pop up and catch the wave and this has always felt better than swimming on the surface. With the Monoflap in the surf I felt I was getting better acceleration on the surface than with the Competitor underwater (or on the surface for that matter). And of course if I ever get sent tumbling in the waves the flexibility and narrowness of the blade will be a godsend for my knees.
Underwater I had a hard time not overpowering the Monoflap. There was quite a bit of tidal flow and I kept wanting to power through it but it's not that kind of fin. Once I got some speed up it really required little effort to maintain it. I started experimenting with my underwater kick and it seemed adding a good ankle flap to my kick really added efficiency and power to the stroke. (If I tried that with my Competitor I would have massive arch cramps within a few kicks.) I'm looking forward to more stroke experimenting when I get my new shoes.
I got a kick out hovering upside down underwater with this fin. All it requires is flapping my ankles which is hardly any effort with the Monoflap. At one point I was just a few inches off the bottom, watching all the coral steadily pass by as the tidal current sucked me out to sea....
Overall a great time and I look forward to doing a little deeper diving off the north shore with the Monoflap. I'm already clear this will be my fin of choice for lengthening my dives. (I borrowed a friends Waterway Model 1 soft blade last year and it had some similarities effort wise to the Monoflap but the footpockets cramped my arches so bad I had to take the fin off and swim to shore. I wanted that blade because I could really relax while diving with it and that lengthened my dives. I suspect the Monoflap will do just as well and maybe better.)
Right off the bat surface swimming felt very natural and impressive. I am certain of keeping a high rate of speed up for longer and with less effort with the Monoflap over against my Finis Competitor. The Monoflap performed better in the surf as well- another surprise as I thought I would really miss the power of my Competitor but again it was the surface performace that made it better. With the Competitor I normally dive underwater, gain some speed up and then pop up and catch the wave and this has always felt better than swimming on the surface. With the Monoflap in the surf I felt I was getting better acceleration on the surface than with the Competitor underwater (or on the surface for that matter). And of course if I ever get sent tumbling in the waves the flexibility and narrowness of the blade will be a godsend for my knees.
Underwater I had a hard time not overpowering the Monoflap. There was quite a bit of tidal flow and I kept wanting to power through it but it's not that kind of fin. Once I got some speed up it really required little effort to maintain it. I started experimenting with my underwater kick and it seemed adding a good ankle flap to my kick really added efficiency and power to the stroke. (If I tried that with my Competitor I would have massive arch cramps within a few kicks.) I'm looking forward to more stroke experimenting when I get my new shoes.
I got a kick out hovering upside down underwater with this fin. All it requires is flapping my ankles which is hardly any effort with the Monoflap. At one point I was just a few inches off the bottom, watching all the coral steadily pass by as the tidal current sucked me out to sea....
Overall a great time and I look forward to doing a little deeper diving off the north shore with the Monoflap. I'm already clear this will be my fin of choice for lengthening my dives. (I borrowed a friends Waterway Model 1 soft blade last year and it had some similarities effort wise to the Monoflap but the footpockets cramped my arches so bad I had to take the fin off and swim to shore. I wanted that blade because I could really relax while diving with it and that lengthened my dives. I suspect the Monoflap will do just as well and maybe better.)
We took the monoflap out this past weekend - my dive buddy loves it so I let him use it. I swear he was moving better with it than with his waterway nemo - judging by how well he kept up with me - certainly better on the surface. Not to mention easy on the feet in 7c water.
He is starting to get reasonably good technique and I wanted to check the relative speed compared with my Tropol.
He is starting to get reasonably good technique and I wanted to check the relative speed compared with my Tropol.
We went twice this past weekend. The monoflap is definitely faster than I'd thought. I was always able to pass my dive buddy, but I was also having to work. Yesterday I took the monoflap out myself for awhile - after 90 minutes or so in my Tropol. I'm using 6 mil socks so I get compression pain in my feet with the tropol - and my feet start to get numb in the cold water. With my feet numb I put the monoflap on - they continued to recover even while I swam with it. I did some sprints and cruises in shallow water - watching the bottom go by. It is very easy to sustain steady speed with this fin and speed is better than I'd thought.
I'd say the two most striking things are that it is very smooth in the water and that it requires very little energy to drive.
As previously noticed - it responds quite well to good monofin technique and does nicely with low amp/high requency. I think there are a couple of specific 'grooves' for this fin. freq/amp wise. It tolerates mediocre to poor technique quite well, but rewards good technique. After just a few minutes of swimming with the monoflap my feet were warm and alive again.
If I can get some sunny days I'll try to get more footage of me and my dive buddy swimming with it.
I'd say the two most striking things are that it is very smooth in the water and that it requires very little energy to drive.
As previously noticed - it responds quite well to good monofin technique and does nicely with low amp/high requency. I think there are a couple of specific 'grooves' for this fin. freq/amp wise. It tolerates mediocre to poor technique quite well, but rewards good technique. After just a few minutes of swimming with the monoflap my feet were warm and alive again.
If I can get some sunny days I'll try to get more footage of me and my dive buddy swimming with it.
'It is very easy to sustain steady speed with this fin and speed is better than I'd thought. '
That describes the C4/80 or 81, too. Divers tend to form an instant opinion about fins without experimenting. Thanks for giving this fin a good workout with an open mind.
That describes the C4/80 or 81, too. Divers tend to form an instant opinion about fins without experimenting. Thanks for giving this fin a good workout with an open mind.
Hehe, I'll change my opinion if I see some big dives with it. Swimming around to see how it feels is all good, but ultimately a bit meaningless from where I stand (i.e. in the performance camp). If I ever get my hands on one I'll see how it goes on a big DYN swim.
Recognizing that there is a problem is the first step, Dave.
For me it was the yellow footpockets. I thought they were, well - gay. (not that theres anything wrong with that)
For the record, this is my dive buddy, Jason. I would'nt be caught dead in a suit like that.
For me it was the yellow footpockets. I thought they were, well - gay. (not that theres anything wrong with that)
For the record, this is my dive buddy, Jason. I would'nt be caught dead in a suit like that.
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Okay. I'm working up a full on review of this thing. It has been through THREE FREAKIN' REVISIONS!! Each time I use this fin I come back with 'hmmph?!'.
Its a really, really good fin - in a kind of freaky way. It still don't think it's a depth fin - at least compared with my hard Tropol - but it's way better than you'd think. You've got to be willing to work with it though - the enegy-in/energy-out business is a bit nuanced.
Its a really, really good fin - in a kind of freaky way. It still don't think it's a depth fin - at least compared with my hard Tropol - but it's way better than you'd think. You've got to be willing to work with it though - the enegy-in/energy-out business is a bit nuanced.
hi Fondueset,
thanks a lot for all your info regarding this fin. it goes to show that we should all keep an open mind as some "quirky" designs sometimes work much better than expected.
how do you think this fin would perform for long surface swims ?
i'm looking for a kind of touring fin that can do several kilometers with relative ease and comfort. do you think this fin could be good for such a use or would you recomend something else ?
all the best...
thanks a lot for all your info regarding this fin. it goes to show that we should all keep an open mind as some "quirky" designs sometimes work much better than expected.
how do you think this fin would perform for long surface swims ?
i'm looking for a kind of touring fin that can do several kilometers with relative ease and comfort. do you think this fin could be good for such a use or would you recomend something else ?
all the best...