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C4 Spearguns

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Amphibious

Working Class Spearo
Mar 17, 2002
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Just noticed DB has these guns for sale now. they look pretty wild.

"The monoscocca guns are handmade, included a reel, a kit nylon line, 17,5cm black slings, stainless steel harpoon, articulated wishbone and gun bag.

But are they worth it? I realize they are full carbon fiber, but it's $515us for the 115cm. anyone get their hands one yet??

Will
 
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Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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I heard that the are not handmade.But their's production is so complicated thats why it needs to time to make one.

Alan(Crotian spero) told me that C4 and Totem spearguns are best euro type speargun. He especially mentioned they are better than OMER and other brands like that.He also said Totems are one step further of C4. This guy and his friends regullarly using C4 and Totem. He is also member of this form.
 

gitano

New Member
Feb 20, 2003
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I have one

I have one and I left it in Italy where it belongs. Go to the Totem site and look at the videos, you will see that the enviro is much different than hunting in the N.Pacific. There is no rail on the barrel thus the shaft size has to precisely reflect the amount of power/rubber you are placing on the shaft. This is a gun that has to be tuned/dialed in to be accurate. monoscocca means "one shoot" as in super accurate and strong but in this case with C4 it refers to the lay up of the carbon fibres and resin. As with any gun it has many advantages and disadvantages. I would never pay that kind of money for this gun it just isn't that special. I forget how much I paid for my gun but I just bought C4 80 blades for $98 US, this is just a reference point for you because I don't even know how much they cost State side.

O.me.r. was started by a gentle man named Valerio Grassi, a real genious. He sold his interest in the corporation some time ago and it now belongs in part to some Americans I believe. O.me.r. products no longer resemble those that Signore Grassi made and are now an inferior product compaired to the new competition.

O.me.r. is not the measuring stick for Italian speargun product. There are many other makers of finer guns in Italy that have yet to export their wares. O.me.r. is a large corporation that has mastered advertising and distribution. The name was built by Grassi and is slowly being disassembled by the corporation as far as the guns are concerned.

Just my 2 cents
Gitano

P.S. I think I paid almost $280 US for my 100 and then gave it to my friend when I left.
 
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Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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Hey gitano what you think about Totems?

I was thinking to buy tahiti 110-120 with 200 +150 euro (for shipping) does it deserve that money?

On the other hand i can buy Riffe comp. 3x with almost same money. If you neglect the trigger mech. difference coz i will use 2 16mm power band with 7mm shaft (both trigger can handle it).
Which one is to choose? Main comparision is design which will effect accuracy/ swing & (tracking) when hunting small fishes?


Actually my main choice Wong 55` carbon hybrid but the are problems with shipping cause of the poletical troubles here. I dont wanna pay a gun 750+ dollars and don`t get it coz of the poletics.:head
 

Cingene

Will Dive for Food
Mar 4, 2003
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Iraklion is still in Cyprus right??? If so, get a serviceman to get it for you.
 

Cingene

Will Dive for Food
Mar 4, 2003
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Gitano,

Have these norprene just hanging dude...where do i send these. Will trade later. Ciao.
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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Originally posted by Cingene
Iraklion is still in Cyprus right??? If so, get a serviceman to get it for you.


Whooo?????

That guy probably live in greek side of the island.
 

Cingene

Will Dive for Food
Mar 4, 2003
400
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I think you may be right Murat...sorry...how about in Izmir? Do have any connections there?
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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Originally posted by Cingene
I think you may be right Murat...sorry...how about in Izmir? Do have any connections there?

Unfortunatelly no. Why?
 

w3ac

I should be working
Nov 8, 2002
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Hey Murat,

You can't go wrong with a Wong. I've been using a 55" teak for almost five years and this gun has bagged more than it's share of fish. I currently use 3 mean greens and it doesn't cause the gun to flex or the shaft to whip. The only gripe I would have is stabilizing it in heavy surge. It tends to get pulled around a lot causing you to burn a lot of air trying to stabilize it. This is where euro design comes in handy; very easy to track and stabilize. The Hybid you mentioned has the best of both worlds. Slightly less power than a wood gun but with the manueverability of a euro. Gitano is in Hawaii and has been camping at my house for the past couple of days hence his inactivity on the forum. My home computer is down and I do most of my online stuff during downtime at work. Maybe I can get him in here after hours and he can give his input. I don't know about shipping problems but Dr. Wong is a member of this forum and maybe you could ask him to respond.

Brad :martial
 

pkotik

FreeDiving Editor
Nov 28, 2001
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We've got a C4 speargun here at Deeper Blue Test Laboratories, South Florida Facility, and it is being put through its paces by a panel of world champions and local spearos.

Early returns are very positive, but keep hitting the Deeper Blue site for a full report, coming soon !


Paul Kotik
 

Omer'sMark

New Member
Apr 11, 2003
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Dear Gitano and fellow freedivers and members whom share the same passion for our sport,

I have enjoyed being an occasional reader and follower of some of the dialogue that takes place on deeper blue and it has never been my intention to intervene on this forum. I'm replying in reference to Gitano's e-mail and I want to take some time to clear some misconceptions in your post about Omer in a non critical way. Let me tell you a little of the Omer story as we know it:

My father and I are the distributors of OMER products in America under our independent company, Technosport Inc. Our small venture began with a passion for the sport and the taste for good equipment that began growing up spearfishing in Sardinia where we I'm from.

At the time we began dealing with Omer of Carate Brianza (Officina MEccanica Rezzato-province of Brescia) in May of 1997 there was an ongoing partnership between the founder Valerio Grassi and the Ciceri family. Valerio Grassi's signature was inscribed on many of the co.'s first designs, namely guns.

These two names shared a common interest for the passion for freediving and high caliber spearfishing products, and while Valerio was a real "Master" of innovation and started somewhat of a Renaissance in Italy and much of Europe for his innovations in spearguns, he lacked the business insight that is needed when a company grows from a small artizan production and shifts to larger aims and goals. I'm not afraid to admit that in the early stages of this sudden growth for the company, Valerios' production (Black Master and Master guns of the day) became poor in quality control and not suitable for the growing customer growth it seeked.

At the same time as we began importing the small name brand into the US market, it was so well received by the small fanatical following (it could only be called that in 97') that a new chapter began in equipment dedicated to under water hunters which was viewed as the Paragon standard to be compared to all other equipment makers by the elite of our sport. If this sounds like an exaggeration it felt like it as the sudden growth proved. Valerio's company in Italy however was feeling the strain of this explosive growth experiencing "growing pains", a fairly normal phenomenon for businesses lacking financial capital to keep up with sudden growth.

The Ciceri family intervened and took over bailing Valerio and OMER out and thanks to their business acumen put the company back on it's feet. New exciting projects developed, one particular instance I could make might be C4 which seems to be on topic now, who started to work with Omer and together they developed the first carbon fiber fins for freedivers that Umberto Pelizzari first wore. "Pelo" as he's called in Italy, went to see Valerio one day and Valerio returned with a pair of blank blades from the local carbon fiber bike specialist (C4) for him to try. Thus followed the Rekord 2's carbon fin, the first production carbon fiber fin by Omer made by C4.

An interesting side note is that many other Italian campanies also had their roots in spearfishing but amid environmental concerns and questions arising regarding the ethics of our sport the companies got shaky. Some decided to take the high road and stray away from it as much as possible while Omer kept it's aims the same way then as it does today and is probably the last of the "big" companies with the same commitment toward the spearfishing and freediving sectors of the diving market. The benefits naturally manifest themselves as Omer was able to invest substantial research and Design into the production and realization of equipment suitable for this small sport. Retaining the largest customer network of freedivers and hunters around the world has it's advantages in terms of developing new products and keeping up with changes in its market.

In so far as business terms are concerned Omer is not a large corporation when in terms of business people say "large corporation". It is still a privately owned firm much smaller than competitors like Mares and Cressi. The owners are still the Ciceri brothers, all of whom work in Omer factory and follow the various sides of the Italian firm.

There are many interesting ideas and small artizans who produce nice freediving equipment and spearguns such as C4. Omer simply uses it's resources and experience drawn from collaboration with freedivers all over to keep up with the change of pace of the sport. What in one person's eyes may not be seen as the best product or ideal is so to another diver in another place or another island so it's difficult to make generalities about what product is better objectively.

This excerpt below came from our 1994 catalog. I hope you have found Omer's story interesting and not intrusive and wish you all a successful and safe hunting season:

Mark Laboccetta
Vice President
Technosport Inc.

"Apnea is my life.
It is the silent and solitary flight into the cobalt blue abyss.
The interminable moment on the bottom,
in anticipation of magical encounters.
It is the exclusive adventure which causes me to rediscover a part of myself that I thought was lost.
It is the lauch into that hard and loyal foreign world that I, as man, want to discover but cannot challenge.
It is the trust in my equipment that is built and maintained with attention to detail that accompanies me in that otherwise inaccessible world.
Apnea is the test of my strength, courage, my curiosity,
of my respect for nature.
It is an inspiring inspirational discipline of deep values,
for me and all of those like me who live in a dream of an extraordinary dimension...that makes us feel as "Omer Men"
 

gitano

New Member
Feb 20, 2003
90
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ecco qua

ecco qua una bella publicita'.

I heard you talk a whole lot about your buisness strategy but what about your guns? I like your ambition and I like that O.me.r has stuck too their guns, no pun intended. I just don't think that you release enough concrete diffence. Give me specs. like trigger mech. retention capabilaties. What your best grouping is at 4 metres. I wanted some numbers to prove me wrong that wasn't derived from the buisness end but performance rather. I too am working on selling some guns but this is not the place to advertise(forums). I send personal messages to people whom are interested. I have recently fallen in love with a gun, wood no less. W3ac I am seceretly coventing Josh's gun made of purple heart. This is one of the better times of my life. Thanks to all here on The Big Island. a big shaka to ya all yeah.
 

pkotik

FreeDiving Editor
Nov 28, 2001
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TECHNOSPORT

I've dealt with Technosport and have met Mark Labocetta, and unreservedly recommend his products, his knowledge and his advice.

This is an example of what we need more of, much more of, in freediving.


Paul Kotik
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
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Originally posted by w3ac
Hey Murat,

Maybe I can get him in here after hours and he can give his input. Brad :martial


This is great man ! ! !

Its also better if you can include few picture of the gun.
 

Murat

Promethian
Jun 21, 2002
2,982
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Mark Laboccetta

Welcome Mark.

Finally we have memmber who can anwer my all question about my gun.

Lets start with few questions:D

I live in Cyprus ( Medeterenean spero). You know ours fishes are not as big as the fishes that living in ocean. Especially if you were like me and has no boat access it means smaller fishes.But i still have big passion.Anway.....

Now i have OMER MB 30/86 (Green barell gun). After period of time this gun did not satisfy me with its accuracy.(pin point accuracy is the key issue for me. Its not easy to hit fast moving small fishes):eek:
Next week i am planing to change my gun. Choices are Master 2000, Excalibur Mimetic 83, Excalibur 2000 (Alluminuim and Carbon)
I like OMER Master 2000's ceramic barell design but i hate that handle design coz you can not put alluminium 30 reel on it and it has not got line relase mech. Its also too bulky. Now if i decide to change my gun with Master 2000 can i put it Excalibur handle? Does this effects accuracy and cause any design problem. Or,should i directly buy New Excalibur series? I am thinking about Excalibur mimetic but its using 125 cm 6.3 mm spear 16mm power bands and 83 cm power band strech; that means it will have 1-1.5 meter less range that my current OMER MB 30/86. I am wondering if i can use 6.5 mm shaft with power 18 bands without any shaft whip in 83-86cm Excalibur guns? Or 1.5mm barell is to thin for that. I will be apreciate if you suggest me any model with specific band/ shaft config to maintain pin point accuracy without sacrifying from range? ( These small details are too important for those speros who hunt small fishes. We always have to think about those confusing details) :confused:
 
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Mattedhead

Drying up inland...
Aug 28, 2002
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Easy there Gitano...you put forth a slanderous, unfounded attack on OMER in your initial post. Mark posts a reply, and you again criticize him for putting out what you consider an advertisement with too little "concrete" details. Seems a great deal hypocritical to me considering you offered no details on the "inferior" products yourself. He merely cleared up your misinterpretations of the history of OMER. Secondly, it is difficult to respond in "concrete detail" to a post severely lacking in details and overflowing with suppositions. It really did not make sense until I read your last post where you stated that you also sell guns, and then it was perfectly clear...OMER is your competition. It is quite similar to school age children disliking the athletes or pretty girls because they are more popular. It is childish. If you have detailed criticisms of products, by all means post them...just make sure that it is a constructive criticism and not an attack. This forum is a tool for bettering ourselves as freedivers/hunters/and stewards for our diving community...it is not intended as a panel for unfounded criticism.

As for "...and it now belongs in part to some Americans I believe. O.me.r. products no longer resemble those that Signore Grassi made and are now an inferior product...", personally I find it refreshing that the US OMER representation/distribution is being led by avid freedivers who are committed to innovation and development of not only their product but the freediving community as a whole. It is this innovation that has put them at the forefront and it is this innovation that will continue to further the name for OMER.

I apologize if this has ruffled some feathers, but I have grown tired of people badmouthing other companies with little or no details. Or slandering a company due to their own product loyalties. It may come as a surprise to some but just because you choose to shoot XXX Brand of gun, does not dictate that YYY Brand of gun is not a great piece of equipment. I am all for constructive criticism, as I am sure the manufacturers on the list are as well....Just give a first hand, detailed account. We will all benefit from this.

Matt
 
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Wishbone

Paragraph aquanaut
Jan 13, 2002
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Hey guys,

Without really wishing to be involved in such arguments, cause I don't reall have the expertise, here's what I heard form the Italian office of the discussed company.

They have redesigned their website and they have issued two brand new product lines: T20 Spearguns and Master America (wooden barrel) speargun.

What's more, they have released a brand new type of fins called BAT, produced from sheets of composite fibers. The company claims these are coming to replace the carbon fins...

Let me remind you also that the very same company released in 2003 a framless mask...

I do dislike some of their products, for very personal reasons, but I'll be happy if someone can give me a better definition of the word "innovation"...

Ivan
 
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