California Sheepshead VS Blueh2Oboy

[Mark Laboccetta]

Cameron Kirkconnell and Brandon Wahlers were doing some diving this week off the left coast somewhere off Socal and sent me this. Pretty big sheepshead isn't it?

Mark

 

[Fondueset]

Dammit!
Why don't I live there!!

 

[Asturven]

Cam,

Nice Sheepsheads.

When will you come back to Houston?

Cheers

Ivan

 

[rcerdena]

Hey Mark:
congrats to Cameron and Brandon for the nice sheepheads. Are the sheepheads difficult to fish in SoCa? For usas we say, they are graduated in divers knowledge and with a masters in spearguns-range.

I hope that you don't mind if I post one of my pics with a sheephead fished in Matarani, Arequipa, southern Peru.
I really enjoy fishing for them..and the way they look at you underwater is something that you enjoy...while you begin turning blue. If you find them in the holes, it's a different story and much easier.

Cheers,

Roberto

 

[Bill McIntyre]

I don't want to rain on their parade, but just for the information of those living outside of La-la land, there are quite a few divers out here who frown on shooting sheepshead. I'm told they are under pretty heavy pressure by live trappers who want to ship them to Japan.

Please note that I don't care what they shoot, but I'm just passing along local attitudes. Its legal to shoot them, so hopefully that means they are not very threatened. I never shoot any, but I don't care to eat them. But then its been about 40 years since I shot one, and who knows, maybe my tastes have changed.

They are very easy to shoot. The last few times I've been out to a particular spot along the coast, I've seen many from around 4 pounds up to 10 pounds, with a few that looked like they might go 20 pounds. At at that same spot, my dive buddy keeps seeing one back in a certain cave that he thinks must go at least 35 pounds. Shooting it would be much like shooting a barn door, and he is hoping no rookie comes along and kills it just because it would be so easy.

I guess that is also why I don't shoot them- its not all that difficult even for an old fart like me. For divers as skilled as those two guys, it must be very easy indeed.

 

[rigdvr]

I don't want to rain on their parade

Then why did you? AJ's are easy to shoot as well but I dont frown on them....hell tuna and wahoo can be very easy to shoot at times. Why is it some people become "fish snobs?" That doesnt mean you Bill, you said you dont prefer tham for table fair and I can respect that...I make those same choices where I hunt but I am talking about those who would frown upon taking those big boys. Heck, ever seen many hogfish that were hard to hit?

 

[WsbHunter]

HMM, I know that at places where they get no pressure sheephead can be very easy to shoot, however this was not the case with these fish.
Cameron wanted a bunch of fish to feed the crew of his boat, so we went out for a dive.
I took him to one of my sheephead spots, and the water was 57 degrees, and 5-8 ft vis. The fish were actualy prety skittish and we were doing 2:00-2:30 dives at 45ft to get these ones to come in.

We got a lot of it on video and it was great seeing the look on Cams face after he stoned his first big one!!
Dumb fish or not, I had a great time diving with Cam, and got a chance to get back in shape doing some long dives again, after having pneumonia for 2 weeks.

Brandon

 

[blueh2oboy]

Seeing as I wasn't the one who put the time and effort into finding where these fish were and my good friend coached me on the way there...
I'd say the greatest challenge was convincing Brando that he owed me for letting him win the Hatteras Meet a few months before.
Having just returned from Iraq I was thankful to get in the water no matter what I was hunting and seeing as this is a first fish of this species I was especially stoked. I'll send the recipe for the fish we used as it came out first class and none went to waste.
I apoligize if I am getting excited about a fish that at times may be as challenging as "shooting your neighbors dog" but the feeling I get every time I am in the water and after every fish I shoot is the same as when I was 5 years old and every thing I shot was the fish of a lifetime.
I love this sport and the diversity of it and the challenge of getting to know the fish throughout the world as well as the people who hunt them and appreciate every second that I get in the water.
Thanks again Brandon and also the Long Beach Fathomiers who invited me to visit with them during their monthly dive meet. Look forward to meeting up with you all again soon.

 

[rigdvr]

well said guys. If every fish doesnt give you that feeling youre in the wrong sport!

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Then why did you? AJ's are easy to shoot as well but I dont frown on them....hell tuna and wahoo can be very easy to shoot at times. Why is it some people become "fish snobs?" That doesnt mean you Bill, you said you dont prefer tham for table fair and I can respect that...I make those same choices where I hunt but I am talking about those who would frown upon taking those big boys. Heck, ever seen many hogfish that were hard to hit?

Why did I shoot one 40 years ago? Because I had not shot one before, and wanted to try it.

But since you brought up amerjacks- I guess the last time I was in amberjack country was in North Carolina from 1971 to 1975, and I didn't shoot any for the same reasons I don't shoot sheepshead. I don't like to eat them, and they are very easy to shoot. I recall going down the anchor line over wrecks and having amberjack so thick circling me that I couldn't see out through them. That is why I've really been a bit surprised to see so many guys on Spearboard mentioning the amberjack that they shoot. My Dad was a fishing guide in Florida and amberjack were considered to be nothing but trash fish back then, but of course times do change. I don't knock anyone for shooting an amberjack, but I just wouldn't do it myself, but I come from a different background.

You are right about "fish snobs" though, and I had to question myself on that subject last summer. I couldn't recall any guest on my boat shooting a sheepshead for as long as I could remember, and then this new guy shot a couple of them and I took his picture, just as I take pictures of any fish shot by guests on my boat. But then when I started to post a dive trip report on Freedivelist and Spearboard, I actually had to think about whether I wanted to post sheepshead pictures because I was afraid some folks might laugh or give me shit about it. You know, the same sort of guys who recently made fun on Spearboard of a 14 year old kid because he posted a photo of a 14 inch rubberlip perch. You will be proud to learn (or maybe you won't) that I went ahead and posted the photos of the sheepshead. I figured that if the guy wanted to shoot them and was proud of it, then it was no skin off my ass to help him show them off.

I have never laid eyes on a hogfish, so I can't say how easy they are to shoot.

In case there is any doubt, let me hasten to add that both Cameron and Brandon are about 6 times as capable at spearfishing as am I. I guess that is part of why I am a bit surprised to see them shooting sheepshead. Brandon consistently gets big white sea bass out here and then won the Hatteras Open last summer, and I'm always reading about Cameron in magazines. But each of us has his own perspective on spearfishing, and if they just want to kill something and its legal, then more power to them.


Edit- I just read the Spearboard version of the story and learned that they shot the fish in a competition.

 

[rigdvr]

Having just returned from Iraq I was thankful to get in the water no matter what I was hunting and seeing as this is a first fish of this species I was especially stoked. I'll send the recipe for the fish we used as it came out first class and none went to waste.
I apoligize if I am getting excited about a fish that at times may be as challenging as "shooting your neighbors dog" but the feeling I get every time I am in the water and after every fish I shoot is the same as when I was 5 years old and every thing I shot was the fish of a lifetime.
I love this sport and the diversity of it and the challenge of getting to know the fish throughout the world as well as the people who hunt them and appreciate every second that I get in the water.
.

I think he summed it up quite nicely. Brandon also commented on these particular sheeps not being of the easy persuasion...I can understand that, Ive seen even the mostly cooperative AJ give me that "Ive seen this trick before" look from deep below

 

[Bill McIntyre]

well said guys. If every fish doesnt give you that feeling youre in the wrong sport!

Then I guess I'm in the wrong sport. At some point in my 67 years, I got to the point where shooting every fish I could didn't excite me as much.

When I was a teenager, I called myself a spearfisherman. But now I guess I'm a primarily a diver more than a spearfisherman- someone who enjoys being down there seeing all that neat stuff and being in such a magic environment, and who shoots fish now and then just to spice it up.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

Brandon also commented on these particular sheeps not being of the easy persuasion...I can understand that, Ive seen even the mostly cooperative AJ give me that "Ive seen this trick before" look from deep below

I can certainly relate. Easy fish can be difficult, and vice versa. When I said that speepshead were easy, it was a generalization. And of course I was under the influence of having been diving so many times lately at a shallow reef less than a mile from the beach that seems to be almost over run with them, but then it isn't that way everywhere.

Still, I'll be sad if I happen to hear about it when the inevitable happens and someone looks into that cave where that monster seems to hang out, and drills it while it sits there looking at him. And even more sad is the liklihood that since this place is so easily accessible and so often frequented by beginners, the guy who shoots it might not be properly equipped and may kill the fish without landing it.

 

[Bucket One]

Bill,
Just to let you know the amberjacks off the carolina's for some odd reason are full of worms and are seldom eaten. Most of the amberjacks off the east coast of florida have them but no nearly as bad. The gulf coast is a different story though. The amberjacks in the gulf rarely have them and if they do they will be around the tail section. I love to eat amberjack. They are one of my favorite fish to eat and your right about years ago amberjacks used to be trash fish and no one wanted them or hardly ate them. Now they have a one per person limit and they are closed for three months for the commerical guys. There are tons of amberjacks out there and are a blast to shoot not to mention eat. But to each his own.
If I'm not mistaken the kid that was recently made fun of was by the guys that seemed to be causing alot of trouble with you cali boys. Were they the guys that got you into trouble?

 

[cdavis]

Stretch,

Your last comment was way out of line. Agree with Bill or not, he's reasonably polite. Chill.

Connor

 

[rcerdena]

Brandon and Cameron
I hope that you have a way to post the video, it would be a pleasure to see it.

Now, about the negative comments regarding spearfishing, I have to say that I respect them. However, nothing would take out of my mind and soul the pleasure of diving and spearfishing, it's just that simple for me.

Saludos,

Roberto Cerdena

 

[StretchArmStron]

oh whatever Connor,
Bill has been hijacking posts and raining on peoples parades for a long time now...Sucks that no one here has the nuts to say anything to him either other than Rigdvr and Bucket.

I guess he fits right in w/ this crowd and that is sad as alot of you guys seem like pretty decent individuals.

way out of line huh? Doesn't take much for you does it.

 

[Fondueset]

You guys all know a great deal more about the behavior of salt-water types than I do - and I've also mostly been taking photos and not spearing. But a couple of things struck me about this thread.

>Here in freshwater there are a few species that are almost allways very easy to approach, pretty much regardless of time of year, location etc. they are actively curious and will allways basically school with you. There are days when they can be a little standoffish - but then we're talking 4 or 5 feet instead of 6 inches. (30' vis) For anglers some of these are much sought after gamefish.

>Several other species - some of which are legal, some not, can be very very difficult to approach and generally allways are. It takes some skill to get a decent photo of these. Some luck too! (these are the types that would be of interest to me - pretty much anywhere)

>Others are highly variable - nearly impossible to even see - or actively curious - if only for a short while. Depending on time, place and other variables I haven't figured out yet.

The fish I know that are allways 'easy to shoot' are ridiculous and, outside of a situation where I needed to the food - would allways be off limits. The rest are subject to variables depending on time, place, person and fish.

For me the fun is getting as close as possible to the difficult ones on a held breath. At some point maybe scoring some dinner. I have a speargun basically to give me the option.

 

[Bill McIntyre]

oh whatever Connor,
Bill has been hijacking posts and raining on peoples parades for a long time now...Sucks that no one here has the nuts to say anything to him either other than Rigdvr and Bucket.

Stretch- Rigdver and Bucket managed to say something more eloquent that telling me to shut the f&#k up. They also didn't have the nuts to copy one of my posts from here and paste it elsewhere where I couldn't reply. I hope that doesn't make you think less of them.

 

[Mark Laboccetta]

Post a picture of a guy and two fish and look at what happens. You guys are bickering at each other like an old married couple

Its really not out of character for Bill to share his opinions on the internet.... and fortunately this is a place where you can still do that without getting bashed for living if someone doesn't agree with you.

Having said that I'm not defending Bill in any way since I've shared one or two difference of opinions with him and he's always promoted my competitors products on the internet to a time without end.... but Stretch take a wet towel and stick it on your forehead, you're gettin' a little hot

Bucket - the reason I think the amberjacks have worms in North Carolina for nothing else is because on average they're bigger. Friskier smaller fish that move faster have fewer. Having speared my share here in VC, NC,SC, and FL it seems that it's just more prevalent among the bigger fish. I've seen the same worms in big AJ's in the Gulf. I only shoot one or two a year now to take one to the smokehouse before winter and the last one weighed around a 100lbs and I only got 30lbs of clean fillet out of it, almost a waste but what can you do. The cooler water farther north or something that lives in it could also have something to do in promoting the parasite growth. Our big black drum and red drum are the same. That's my take anyway.

Anyhow, shooting a white sea bass instead of a sheeps head in CA or a pompano instead of an AJ in North Carolina doesn't do anything to help the sea bass or the pompano either so a dead fish is a dead fish except the latter helps to boost your ego more I guess Shoot just what you need and abide by the fish and game rules and it doesn't make too much of a difference either way. A beginner like Cameron or Brandon has to start somewhere and the Sheepshead might be just that fish to start with...Until it's protected or outlawed, your 35lb Sheepshead friend has to live by a predator and prey relationship and survival of the fittest because he might make the happiest rookie of the year if one run's across him. Same with all the big dumb hog fish in Florida up to the Carolinas, they are beautiful animals and we should respect them and be proud and respectful of the resource and the opportunity afforded us when we shoot one and be careful not to take more than we need. I don't know about sheepshead in CA but hog fish are delicious and I feel like I earn my keep with my family and friends when I shoot one to bring home.

Interesting thing about the fish in the Wrasse family we spear in the oceans the world over. They all have one common trait that makes them more susceptible to spearfisherman, they seem fairly dumb and aproachable or just too curious for their own good. Take the Sheepshead in California and pez Perro as it's known in S.America, the hog fish in the South East like it's cousin the Spanish Hogfish, the tautogs in the North East, and cunners and wrasses in the Med. They're all fairly easier to shoot most of the time than other wearier fish and symbolize a good stepping stone and starting point to most spearfishers around the world...I'm done rambling, you guys have a good day.