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?? Cameras??

Thread Status: Hello , There was no answer in this thread for more than 60 days.
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Jon

Jon

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1chip vs. 3chip

I was under the impression that a single chip camera was better for available light video and a 3chip was better for video while using video lights.
The argument was that only one of the three chips will be working in dark conditions and gets overloaded compared to the other two chips, this way a single chip camera actually gives better results with no extra lights.

Either way, I have been on dives where the vis was crap and watched people shoot video on the dive. When we got back on the boat I was utterly ( wisconsin humor) amazed at the footage. The camera brought back better pictures than I saw at the bottom- and I know that I wasn't narked! It focused right through all of the crud in the water and improved the vis a heck of a lot.

I think that I am leaning back towards the Sony video again.

One more question about it, and other video cameras, is about the editiing features in the camera. If I go with a camera like that can I use most of its features to edit, in conjunction with my home computer, or will I end up having to upgrade my whole computer system before my wife is ready to?:confused: ;)

My father-in-law dropped $8,000 on a new computer to edit his video on and I can't afford to do that. I also live about 80 miles away and can't use his anytime I want to.:(

Jon
 
Jon

Jon

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This was another choice that I had. It retails for around $600 and has the monitor screen open all the time. It is also as small as the Sony, which makes it easy to swim when freedivng.

It would only be used for freediving because of its limited depth range- 100'. The Ocenahaus is good to something like 600'!:duh

I know that Cliff still liked the Sony in The Oceanhaus housing, over the JVC, because of the versitility factor.

Still, the price on that Gates housing has me thinking. I actually know a few others who might be intersted in the same thing.

Jon
 
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andrsn

andrsn

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Aug 26, 2001
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Jon,
Whaoooo there tiger, what's that?! :confused: What model JVC? I was just about to respond to Cliff saying that I guess you could go to a single arm for the Oceanhouse, which would be great for freediving, but then you put this up! :D Where'dya get this buddy? Tell me, Tell me! :eek:

Andrsn
 
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I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
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Hi Jon,

No way a single chip Video camera is better than a 3 CCD. Three CCD if I am not wrong capture the 3 main colour spectrum. I am sure there is no such thing as 2 CCD. It is always the RGB, Red Green & Blue. See projectors, good ones always have three lenses.

A single CCD has an extra job of separating 3 colours. The best way to test a camera low light feature is simple :

Connect both to a very good TV at night in a room where the lighting is only 40 watss or less. Switch between the output of both cameras. Set both on same auto mode. I personaly have a single chip CCD and it can't compare to the TRV900 ( my friend's ). You will see that low performing video tends to result in higher noise than the better 3 chip one. Noise is what you see as micro red dots on the TV screen. At a glance you can't tell.

This TRV900 is also the smartest auto focus unit I ever tried for underwater. I set everything on auto for diving, me not a pro.
I tried Video 8, Hi-8 and latest a DV TR series from Sony before I tried the TRV900. TRV900 does least "hunting" and smart. In low lights bad viz, it realy shines. This is the only camera I can confirm that capture as good or sometime better than my own eyes. My viz at the wreck is not only crap but pure crap.

One word to note. Any Video camera which has electronic image stabilization should have this feature turned off undertwater. It generate more noise in the picture. The other image stabilization which is by lens work is OK to turn on. Canon??? and TRV900 uses the optical image stab, instead of electronic.

A light weight video camera need more practice to use underwater. It tends to "shake" more when you pan.
When you buy a housing, make sure it has the "record" button in a strategic position. This is important for smooth recording. Some totaly mechanical video housing have to follow the video camera rec button position and some are located at the worst place if the housing is used. I prefer electronic controls using Sony control "L" feature.



Anderson,
On a video it is a moving picture, the LCD does not "work" like when u take stationary object (IMHO). On snap camera, you pay attention to the single frame sceen, the result of ur shot. In video shots I keep moving and generaly I shoot wide angle, and 3-4" LCD screen is not that big of a detail. I use video camera to take shots of my friend shooting fish ( not succesful yet ), so I pan a lot and somehow my eyes can not track using the LCD screen, thus I aim by feel. I have only a total of +-20 underwater video hours, so my experience is very limited. I love video tech though.
Gates I heard is also a good product.
 
Cliff Etzel

Cliff Etzel

PFI Freedive Instructor in training, Photographer
Jul 7, 2000
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Jon - As far as computer gear goes - it would depend on what you have. I currently have a Pentium 733 with 768 megs of RAM . A 64 meg Asus 7100 Video card and 2 hard drives - a 40 meg boot drive and an 80 meg drive for doing my multimedia work as well as a CDROM and CD burner.

I am hoping to get a dual processor MB with processors within the next month. Have a line on a dual 667 that handles up to a gig of ram at a great price.

Here are some key things to have when doing video:
  • At least 512 megs of RAM
  • Firewire port to upload your footage to from your camera to your computer
  • A video editing package to do the work with - I have heard great things about Vegas Video from Sonic Foundry

Regarding the JVC setup - I have my reservations regarding acrylic housings for video. Also, it appears that there is no way to attach a wide angle lens to the front.

The Oceanhaus housing has a super wide angle port already and gives you the equivalent of a 18 - 20mm lens on a 35mm camera. Something like 100 degree field of view. You need that to carry depth of field when working in low light.
 
unirdna

unirdna

tropical wuss
Sep 16, 2002
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Re: 1chip vs. 3chip

Originally posted by Jon
One more question about it, and other video cameras, is about the editiing features in the camera. If I go with a camera like that can I use most of its features to edit, in conjunction with my home computer, or will I end up having to upgrade my whole computer system before my wife is ready to?:confused: ;)

My father-in-law dropped $8,000 on a new computer to edit his video on and I can't afford to do that. I also live about 80 miles away and can't use his anytime I want to.:(


Whoa there Big Pimpin ;),
You just worry 'bout the camera. If/when it comes time to get a new puter, you come to me. I can build you a system that will do everything you need for well under 4 digits. Or you could just use mine (pretty much the same as Cliff's). You give me deals on your used gear, so don't make me feel like a poacher. Glad to help.

Cliff:
I've used Vegas video. I agree. It is one of the better video editing suites. Sonic Foundry, overall, makes some pretty good stuff.

Ted
 
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Jon

Jon

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Sonic Foundry is about 5 miles form my house. Everyone who works for them, that I knew, got canned about two years ago. Some very unforutnate friends of my wife bought their stock at $65+ a share and it is now worth about $1.50.:head

I wasn't aware that they were still making anything.

Ted, you still need to buy my doubles so I can afford this whole thing.

Anderson, I read about it on some British diving site and I pulled the picture off of the JVC website. Any thoughts???

Cliff, I understand about the lens, but I am ok with a tight fitting acrylic housing. Cameras can always be taken deeper than they say. My MMII have been done to 220' when they are only suppossed to be good to 160' and I never had a problem. Ikelites have been taken deeper than that.

Jon
 
andrsn

andrsn

Just visiting...
Aug 26, 2001
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Jon,

IYA made a great point here. The LCD may have a lag and may not be worth the xtra housing mass to accomodate it. The Gates is looking better and better for me. My birthday's tomorrow, anyone feeling generous?! :D

Anyways, the 3 chip sounds great, but I'll wait a few years before I go that nutz $-wise. :t It looks like I'd be able to get into this Gates housing and a camera for under $2k.

Alrighty, gotta run. Gotta go scope out some Banks around here. :D Noone know's anything, ok?! rofl

Andrsn
 
Jon

Jon

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Anderson, you've really got me thinking about that Gates housing.
It is twice the weight of the Oceanhaus, but half the cost. I think that this is a picture of how small it is.
That would make a nice package for freediving. I can't seem to find the dimensions on the Oceanhaus, but it might only be a little bit smaller.
The one thing that I can find is their weight out of water. The Gates is about 5 pounds and the Oceanhaus is 2 1/2 pounds. In water it is all about the same.

Iya, I am not doubting what your saying about the 3 chip. I am just relaying what others have told me who also shoot a bit of video. I think that I will be sticking with a single chip because of the price for right now. Thanks for your input.

Jon
 
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andrsn

andrsn

Just visiting...
Aug 26, 2001
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Oh wow, that's nice. :)

Andrsn
 
I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
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Gee Jon, that is at least 60 feet viz in ur photo. Sweet. In waters like that even I don't shoot fish, I already feel happy.


Uni,
If I ever get a budget for a digital editing on PC, I will dig info out of you my friend.......... I bought a supposedly decent editing tool, called Snazzi (in Asia) and I can't even use it. It also can only do MGEG1 , VCD quality. :D :D
 
Jon

Jon

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Anderson,
I just got an email back from the company and all of those Gates housings are SOLD!:(

Iya, I pulled that picture off of the Gates website. Those were not taken around here.

Jon
 
Jon

Jon

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Iya,

This is what are wrecks look like at around 170' in Lake Michigan.
Vis is anywhere from 3'-20' depending on the wind and water temp.

Jon
 
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Jon

Jon

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This is what the wrecks look like up in Canada, Tobermory to be exact, at around 15'. This thing was totally intact and sunk over 100 years ago. Water temps in August are around 70 degrees down to 55'.

Jon
 
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I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
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Jon,

Ur first photo is my kind of regular poor to mdeium viz. I think I will call that at least a 15 feet viz but dark. Your water particles not so bad as my wreck.

Ur second photo is so nice, that I am calculating at 25-30 feet viz, the diver on the left background is what make think it is 25-30 feet.

Do you do wreck penetration, you gear looks very Tekkie.... he he he.

Here in my warm water I can do 170 feet wreck with a single tank and no pony, stay till my Aladin Pro urge me to do at least 15 minutes deco at 3 meters. One thing I can not stand is water cooler than 25* Celcius, I will shiver till my teeth feel like cracking a part and I breath like mad.

How long do you stay at that 170' wreck and what is ur usual deco profile ? I am blind on deep dive deco mode, all I do is dive and see my Aladin telling me when I am about to deco. I don't plan my dive, the fishes do that for me...he he he. I am good enough with calculation on a single tank up to 175 feet and will not want to deco more than 20 minutes....too boring. From my 170' wreck, there is an island some 300 meters away. My usual deco mode is to swim to the reef of the island while ascending very slowly to 15 feet and keep at that till I find the reef, hang around the reef, play with fishes and won't feel the boredom of the deco time. If I am quite low on air, I ascent immed, stay at 15 feet, inflate my sausage, get my self neg bouyant, hang on to the sausage/marker for as long as my Aladin requires while closing my eyes half asleep. I find closing my eyes and yoga-ing my breath while on neg bouyancy ( thus I need to hold on to the floating marker line ) save me a lot of air. The only problem is after 10 or more minute of eyes shut, once I open them in day light, I get giddy from over exposure, the first one minute though. He he he. I still keep my ears sharp, I don't want to get runned down or netted ( once almost ) by some traditional fishing boat.

If I don't shoot or load a speargun or fight a fish, I am always saving about 500 psi.

THANKS
Iya
 
I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
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Jon,

This was taken by a friend sometime in early Oct 2002. The place is my favourite pinacle in the Indian Ocean. They day we all have Doog Tooth Tuna party. The camera is not digital, it is an SLR housed in a housing. Can't remember the brand, ain't mine. The film used was a positive/slide and it was presented to me using a simple scanner scanning the slide, so it doesn't give picture as good as a printed paper photo scanned on my scanner. That's a +- 10kg Doggie. Photo taken at 100' of water. Viz that day was at least 60 feet or better. I never do still photo underwater, and never will. Too difficult for me.:eek:
 
Jon

Jon

Dairyland diver
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Iya,

I shot both of the pictures with my MMII and 100 ASA film. The first shot is my friend Gert. He is my regular trimix buddy. At 170' I'll do a 25 minute bottom time and 30 minutes of deco. This keeps are total run times to about an hour. We do this because the water is always 39 degrees on the bottom (4C).
When Diving in Curacau (SP?) a few years ago we did a lot of deep air single tank dives- well before I was set up DIR. First dive would be to 200' and the second dive would be on some nice wreck at 170'. I remember getting 15 minutes of bottom time at that depth and going up to do my "yoga breathing" to get my 25 minutes of deco in. I still came up with 500psi in a single 80.

I no longer dive like that. Now we use doubles with 18/45 trimix and one, ususally two, deco bottles with 50% and 02 in them. I no longer use computers. I use GUE Dplanner on my palm pilot and write things down on my slate and in my wet notes. I use a D-3 for my main gauge and a Stinger, in gauge mode, for my back-up.

The second shot was in some nice shallow, and warm for Canada!, water in a protected bay. One of the divers in the club I belong to, DEEP Midwest, forgot her drysuit fins and decided to go freediving with me that day. I let her, Jitka, borrow my monofin while the rest of them roasted away in their drysuits!

I am getting tired of dragging all of the tech gear around and my life insurance guy freaked out when he found out about all of the diving I do. If I freedive only I am just considered a "snorkeler" and my rates go down. This has prompted me to think about dumping all of my tech gear and buy a really sweet digital video set-up instead.:D

Jon
 
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I

Iyadiver

Mr. Long Post
Apr 22, 2002
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Jon,

Motor Marine 2 by Sea and Sea, used to be very popular in my country next to Nikonos V ( or IV ).

Being a warm water diver, I realy pity those having to dive with 7mm wet suit, tons of lead, air hungry dry suit and so on. No offence but carrying the gear alone will kill me.:D

Sell those stuff u got, get a light set up, dive around Asia. In Manado you can do 200' with single tank, water sometime at 22-24* celcius but I am sure you can live with that ( me no-no ) on a 3mm suit. 100+ feet viz is very normal there.

The area I live is murky water. At 30 feet viz I am a happy man. Upto 60 feet viz, I feel like in heaven. At 100+, I get "narcosis" from the viz...:p.

It is funny some divers in Asia (with warm water ) are heading for twin tanks set up. Many is not out of needs like you but they just think it is cool.........wha ha ha ha. The GUE or DIR system have been misuderstood here as a MUCH better diving gear over the normal recreational gears, whereby the actual dives are recreational and in water no cooler than 26* celcius.

Good talking 2 you.

IYA
 
Jon

Jon

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Dressing for the cold is a pain. Inthe summer time the surface wamrs up and i can get away with a 3 mm while freediving. the bottom is cold, but I can always warm up again back on the surface. Those same dives on scuba require drysuit, argon, P-valves, and lots of undewear.
He is a shot of a wreck in Curacou at 170'.

Jon
 
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Jon

Jon

Dairyland diver
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I saw this guy hanging out at about 180'. Curacou was much more relaxed about diving, especially deep diving, than Bonaire. When I was on Bonaire we joked about the dive guides being a bunch of Dive Nazi's. I haven't been back there since.
 
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