Can't seem to hold big white seabass

i think the bigger question to peskydor is...if youre so experienced, why are you using a piece of crap biller? i used to have one and im glad i got rid of it, the trigger mech is completely useless and the gun has no power at all...i thought anyone who had been spearing longer than a year knew this?

Originally posted by peskydor
These fellows are mostly young and inexperienced. Of course, I consider anyone under 50 as 'young' and anyone who hasn't spearfished at least 5 countries and 100 islands as 'inexperienced'.

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No problem. I'm equally wary of and consider anyone I've never met, know or dove with and spews the kind of self agrandizement you do to be fulla crap. rofl And I say this looking at my revered Prodonovich sitting in it's cradle on the wall....

I suggest we return this thread to the topic- that being helping this guy to keep ahold of his catch.

not necasarily you just need to know how to hunt them they spook very easily i found a school of about 30+ mulloway an hour ago and whenever you see them there on the move where have you been hitting them?and has the spear been penetrating all the way through?shot placements also important

Icarus Pacific. I sent Kelp monkey drawings of a home made slip tip and how to make it. What have you done?

LaJolla diver. Yes, the Prodanovich gun is considered obsolete but it served its purpose well. The ideas and theories that he generated live on. But some have fallen by the wayside. The Biller gun might be dissed by some depending on the environment, visibility, range, type of game, and ignorance. However, there are several models of this gun and , with modifications, serve the freediver quite well. I would be willing to discuss these mods but one should understand that customizing is particular to each diver and his prejudices, needs and circumstances. I spent years diving the Coronados, San Clemente and other places. My preference in guns for blue water hunting the Coronados is the Island or Blue Water. My preference for tank diving or freediving the kelp is the Island or Biller 54. As I say, the Biller needs to be set up properly for extended range shooting and is really not suitable for blue water where 20 foot shots are taken on big game. It is best suited for close shots on big game or long shots on open water gamefish like king mackeral (east coast). Its strong suit is pinpoint accuracy and that comes into play when a Spanish or king presents a 2 inch bullseye. (The fish are soft and feisty so the shot must be accurate). The usual setup is with 2 heavy bands and Tahitian shaft or three medium bands and sliptip. Always mount a reel, of course.The mix of game in California, eg, tuna, weighs against a gun like the Biller (or Allen) and in favor of custom or homemade guns or guns like the big Riffe's.

PS: If you are having trouble with the Biller trigger it may have to do with the line release. Occasionally, there is friction between the trigger and the metal tab that drops the line. Polish the parts and do not string the line too tight. I didn't say the gun is perfect. Otherwise, the trigger and sear are well made but they, too should be polished if any friction is felt. Normally, that is not necessary. I would not impose traction loads more than 300 pounds but that is plenty for most purposes and the gun trigger still has a margin of safety.

PPS: If someone will instruct me how to do 'thumbnails' I will forward some pics of Biller mods and/or Riffe mods from time to time. Make it simple and specific. I'm a KISS kind of guy ((keep it simple, stupid)
Pesky

I've done this...

Originally posted by icarus pacific
Yep, the 'Boydster is correct.

The thing with WSB is that once you see them which is an art unto itself, the real work begins. They're a very, very soft fleshed fish, so unless you tap them in the gills, you need to have your shaft go all the way through to the point that your slip tip will seperate and leave the fish to either fight against the wire holding the tip to the shaft and/or it wraps itself in the kelp and then you only have to worry that the thing will be able to leverage itself against the kelp and tear off, or you'll be so friggin' tired with going all over Hell and breakfast cutting it free that you take a puke.

Your situation is screaming for a purpose built gun. A Biller or a JBL or another generic gun will be able to bring these things back to the beach but you'll most often just ding 'em and off they go to die. Not smooth.

If you decide not to go and drop the ducats for a Riffe No Kai Oi or an Island, at least do this- add a band and get a slip tip for your Biller and I'm talking one with a single barb that will allow the thing to pierce the fish clear to the other side, and then deploy. The Riffe Ice Pick is a proven though heavy tool that repeatedly gets the job done. If you really wanna show 'em, get an Alexander or a Wong, or a Kitto. These things are pieces of brutal art and well worth the cost, especially in terms of fish kept.

No Cingene, the furthest North I've seen WSB is in Santa Cruz and then you have to be really good, really local and really lucky. They show occasionally in Monterey but by and large, the West end of San Miguel Island off Pt Conception is about it as far as I've seen them with any degree of habit. I have it on my best info that they are both above Refugio and off Catalina right now.

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What I did P'dor. is answer the guy's question w/o any pomp and patronizing, w/o any "I've done this and that", and w/o any self congratulations while knocking anyone for expounding on what has worked for them. Funny, but in conversations with most of the people whose names you so freely drop, they never mentioned you. While they were alive anyways... Being 50 and having dove a bunch of islands puts you into heady experience that most of the newbies here could genuinely benefit from w/o the spiel.

You'll note that the second paragraph of my post is also the answer you spent so much space taking up, thus actually subscribing and articulating in your KISS theorum :hmm Try it.

Not bad, Icarus but talk is cheap and you left him hanging. "Get a single barb sliptip"? Nice tip, but you forgot to tell him that a single fluke tip will deflect the spear by 3-4 inches. If he does use a single fluke he should always mount the tip with the barb down which will cause the spear to rise slightly making long shots more predictable. Also, since the tip is mounted the same way each time he will be able to compensate with the shot. Better he should copy the Potts/Andrew tip drawing that I sent him.

You've got a lot to learn. I don't mind helping. Not at all. However, there is a price. The stories go with it. They're all true, and more, and I am just getting warmed up.

A word about the no ka oi.
This gun is advertised as having a 44 inch rubber pull. However, the actual pull is 43 inches, the same as the Biller 54. I realize that this is the WSB thread, however, a word to east coast divers about this. This may have changed but the guns that I used to sell (and use) have a mickey mouse pin located on the muzzle for the purpose of routing the shooting line over the muzzle. Also, the line release is mounted beside the trigger housing, set directly into the wood with an allen screw. When using 1/16 steel cable the wire will eat into the wood at the line release. Also, the cable (or mono) will have a tendency to slip off the pin slowing the load up. Mounting reels to this gun is difficult. For east coast use where cable is used and where it is advantageous to snub the fish before it can shoot into a wreck or tower it is necessary to mount a reel which has a trigger. The reel most commonly used for this purpose is the 1962 mod Riffe aluminum reel. However, a special mounting block must be made for the gun. I can post pics or send drawing if needed. For diving open water, such as areas of the West Coast, and open Atlantic, 500 pound kevlar line works well as the shooting line. Do NOT use this on any reel as the windings will submerge and bind. The Riffe shaft is way too long. Subtracting a few inches will improve the gun. Although the shafts are 'hardened' steel, they are made in Mexico. The steel that I tested was soft and could actually be machined. My dive buddy caught Riffe at a machine tool show a few years back and told him face to face so maybe this has changed and shortening may not be practical. However, there are custom makers of shafts. Riffe's tips are not very practical. They are beefy, bulky and not the best for WSB hunting. The winged tips will blast a big hole, not good. Forget theory for a second and look for a slip tip arrangement ( or modify Riffe slip tip) that can be quickly removed from the fish. When you retrieve a fish it can be quickly strung (on the back) and the gun brought back into play. No need to do gymnastics trying to remove the spear by reversing as advised by Jay.

Upcoming stories:

Mexican police try to confiscate Wes's boat but we have an edge.

We escape from the Mexican army.

I dive the Persian Gulf and narrowly escape death in an earthquake.

Schneppershoff takes my berth in a last minute switch. The phone rings the minute I enter the office. Al Schneppershoff is dead.

Narrow escape in Teneriffe when jumbo jets collide on the tarmac.

We run out of gas and I swim to a remote desert beach off Baja.

Hiya Peskydor

Well, what are you waiting for???? Eargerly anticipating your adventures!!!

This sounds like its gonna be fun!!!!

Regards
miles

Good idea Kelpmonkey...Peskydor...why don't ya tell us about some of your spearfishing adventures?

In response to Sven....."You've got a lot to learn. I don't mind helping. Not at all."
rofl

Tag your it!

Cingene,
I thought that Wes was going to write a book about our adventures but I guess not. Too bad, because he can write and I can't, and I get bored after tap tapping for 5 minutes. Nevertheless, I'll ease into this but not on this thread (by popular demand), LOL.Usually there is a moral to a story. I don't have any particular agenda and no morals at all so don't look for that.

Get me that address if you want the drawings. I just made some copies. I may have left the impression that the slip tip can be made with a drill and grinder. Indeed, it can. However, the drilled cavity has to be perfectly aligned wich is difficult to do with a drill press. I suggest that a number of blanks be cut. A few guys could pool their resources and whack off a number of 3/8 hex blanks. Take them to a machinist and have them drilled, and have the points tapered. If you don't want to have a fancy needle point taper then it is also possible to make a tricut on a grinder. Many home mades have that design and they work fine. If you want to play with one I can send you a blank. If if comes out to your satisfaction the 17-4 steel can be heat treated. Throw it in with somebody's scheduled batch.
Pesky

Originally posted by Hamrrhed
Tag your it!

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Nah, not gonna bite. I should make mention though on the single barb-slip tip thing. The style I've made diifer from a simple Tahitian or Hawaiian shaft, in that the shafts are 3/8" and threaded. the tips resemble a conventional sliptip in that it requires a male adapter that the female tip is aligned on, but the tip is 6 inches in total length allowing me to pin a small swinging barb that is blended into the tip itself, so the hydrodynmics don't suffer as do the Tahitian and hawaiian tips that need all that barb to retain the fish. My latest batch of tips also differ in that they're not female in their fitment to the adapter but the other way around- the adapter is machined female with two vents to allow water in when the tip exits and the tip itself is machined male to slide into the adapter. This has made the alignment issues of tips like the Riffe ice Pick a no brainer and the tips have the added benefit of the barb to catch and hold on those long, desperation shots or when you punch the gill plate and the tip isn't going through the body of the fish. The vent holes in the adapter haven't proven to be a weak point and the tips have been deploying very regularly.

Blue Water Hunter has a cheapy design that mimics this and Terry shows his version in his book, but with two barbs.

K'Monkey or P'dor- feel free to start a thread about this on the Hunting Equipment area of the site.

Hiya

icarus pacific and peskydor how about some pictures???

Kind of easier to see what you're explaining.

Thanx

Miles