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Chlorine and teeth?
- Thread starter naiad
- Start date
Thread Status: Hello
, There was no answer in this thread for more than 90 days.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
It can take a long time to get an up-to-date response or contact with relevant users.
I have thought of that... there are some nice fish in that river, and clear water... 
http://www.itchen-fishing.net/TroutFishing.asp
That's proper water.
http://www.itchen-fishing.net/TroutFishing.asp
That's proper water.
OT but I just saw this, teeny bit relevant...
Extreme breatholding in carp & goldfish
http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/060407_anoxic_fish.html
DDeden
Extreme breatholding in carp & goldfish
http://www.livescience.com/animalworld/060407_anoxic_fish.html
DDeden
Back to chlorine....
Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread with info about low-level chlorine toxicity. I have researched it further, and it matches my symptoms exactly. It is such a relief to know what the problem is. I have been to the doctor many times, but with no satisfactory results. Now at least I know what it is.
Thanks to everyone who replied to this thread with info about low-level chlorine toxicity. I have researched it further, and it matches my symptoms exactly. It is such a relief to know what the problem is. I have been to the doctor many times, but with no satisfactory results. Now at least I know what it is.
naiad said:
I've been thinking about the cause and may be a few things. Extra sensitivity to bleach exposure, diving too soon after the pool was treated (wait a couple of hours), and/or an extra strong dose of treatment (too much bleach or chlorine added). On the last two there would likely have been others that became sick. The first one would be most likely IMO due too your prolonged exposure over a period of time.
Do you believe you're problem came from contact or inhalation? I've gotten some of your symptoms from inhalation of bleach fumes at the surface but not contact with the water.
I think it was probably caused by prolonged exposure, but there may also have been an excessive amount of chlorine. I know that at one pool where I train, at one point the level of chlorine was way above the legal limit and swimmers were complaining of skin rashes.
I'm not sure whether it was caused by contact or inhalation, or both. In some of the articles I found it says that much more is absorbed through the skin than the lungs.
It isn't actually the chlorine that is dangerous, but the other chemicals, such as chloroform and trihalomethanes, that are produced when the chlorine reacts with substances such as sweat and urine. Some pools certainly have very murky water which looks like it hasn't been changed in a while.
I started a thread in the Safety section on the dangers of chlorine...
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=66899"]Chlorine[/ame]
I'm not sure whether it was caused by contact or inhalation, or both. In some of the articles I found it says that much more is absorbed through the skin than the lungs.
It isn't actually the chlorine that is dangerous, but the other chemicals, such as chloroform and trihalomethanes, that are produced when the chlorine reacts with substances such as sweat and urine. Some pools certainly have very murky water which looks like it hasn't been changed in a while.
I started a thread in the Safety section on the dangers of chlorine...
[ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=66899"]Chlorine[/ame]
naiad said:
I had an incident once back when I didn't know any better. I got sprayed by sodium hydroxide vapors. One of the bleach ingredients. After work I went straight to the beach for a swim. As soon as I hit the saltwater it lit me up like a christmas tree. Other exposures while sweating left ithching, rashes, and coughfing fits. It's the salt.
naiad said:
Humans produce:
- urea in urine ca.20,600 mg/day,
- uric acid ca. 528 mg/day.
The discharge from eccrine sweat glands contains inorganic salts, urea, and sometimes small amounts of uric acid (urea and uric acid are by products of cellular metabolism as a way of non-toxic storage of ammonia). This is a fact of the mechanisms in which materials move through the body through osmotic pathways. These glands discharge as a response to heat and exercize.
Active swimmers sweat, but divers in bradycardia probably don't.
I'm not sure if uric acid or urea convert to ammonia at contact with air. Isn't bleach & ammonia a nasty combination? Sorry, I don't know more. DDeden
Not good. Seems like there are lots of nasty chemicals that could be present in pools. I wonder if chloroform could increase the incidence of blackouts? It used to be used as an anaesthetic. Of course, the amount in pool air would be relatively very small, but when combined with prolonged apnea, would it have any effect?
About the crucian carp, some nice ones here...
http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/freshwater/carassius_auratus.htm
http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/freshwater/carassius_carassius.htm
About the crucian carp, some nice ones here...
http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/freshwater/carassius_auratus.htm
http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/freshwater/carassius_carassius.htm
Naiad,
Your lung issues could be due to something called lifeguard lung.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1998-12/NJMa-SWCA-171298.php
http://www.wndu.com/news/mommo/mommo_94.php
Your lung issues could be due to something called lifeguard lung.
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/1998-12/NJMa-SWCA-171298.php
http://www.wndu.com/news/mommo/mommo_94.php
Could be, but there are no spray water features at any of the pools I use. Interesting anyway.
What I have discovered has put me off swimming. I will continue freedive pool training, soon cutting down to once a week, and no other pool use. I will continue with dry statics, and try rowing as a way of keeping fit. I will also try some open water diving when I am nearer to the coast, as now it is not possible.
It is a shame as I was really starting to enjoy swimming, but I'm sure I will find something else. Outdoor swimming maybe?
I am also upset that pool users are not made aware of this risk. People are encouraged to go swimming because it is a gentle and healthy form of exercise. Babies, young children, pregnant women and the elderly are encouraged to use the pool. From what I have read, it seems that pool use has the potential to cause serious illness. I now believe that it has made me ill.
What I have discovered has put me off swimming. I will continue freedive pool training, soon cutting down to once a week, and no other pool use. I will continue with dry statics, and try rowing as a way of keeping fit. I will also try some open water diving when I am nearer to the coast, as now it is not possible.
It is a shame as I was really starting to enjoy swimming, but I'm sure I will find something else. Outdoor swimming maybe?
I am also upset that pool users are not made aware of this risk. People are encouraged to go swimming because it is a gentle and healthy form of exercise. Babies, young children, pregnant women and the elderly are encouraged to use the pool. From what I have read, it seems that pool use has the potential to cause serious illness. I now believe that it has made me ill.
Although that's what they mention, it's not just spray features that cause it. But that definitely contributes.
naiad said:
I was thinking that if the chemicals mix at the water-air surface and stay there, rather than floating up in the air (like lifeguard lung), then nearly everyone breathes this air just above the surface, both swimmers and divers. I don't know the density of these chemicals, but I'd think forced air external ventilation (a slight breeze) would help. One way to test if there is enough breeze would be to drop a down-feather or cattail or dandelion fuzz at the center and corner of the pool and watch if it drops straight down (no breeze) or if it floats aloft (breeze). Outdoor pools always have a bit of a breeze, but I've noticed some indoor pools don't because the owners want to keep the pool warm (especially in colder climates), they just recirculate the air inside, so the chlorine in the air increases.
A parallel: Goldfish & carp don't need a bubbler to move the water in a goldfish bowl, because they can tolerate lower O2 & higher CO2, but other fish in aquariums need a bubbler to ventilate the water surface to remove CO2 and replenish O2 at the water surface.
In the same way, people at an indoor pool need the air at the water surface to be replenished, otherwise the CO2 and other worse chemicals accumulate at and just above the water surface.
So the surface area (the water-air interface) might concentrate chemicals, and people tend to breathe right at that surface zone, lighter-than water chemicals and heavier-than air chemicals will both concentrate there, also CO2 will concentrate there. There must be good external ventilation, and proper surface-water filteration-distillation.
[/QUOTE]About the crucian carp, some nice ones here...
http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/freshwater/carassius_auratus.htm
http://www.jjphoto.dk/fish_archive/freshwater/carassius_carassius.htm[/QUOTE]
I saw some oblong white-orange-black speckled carp swimming in the little river that flowed into the Bay of Japan, while staying at a seaside inn there. Neat! DDeden
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Then it could be that. The problem started with a severe chest infection. It wasn't the usual bronchitis and chesty cough that people get in the winter. It was an infection deep in the lungs, blocking the small airways and making breathing very difficult. I did not have any other symptoms such as sore throat, blocked nose or fever. It happened very suddenly, in a few hours.smellsfishy said:
This suggests that it was something that I inhaled, and not a nose or throat infection that led to bronchitis. I didn't have any freediving accidents which could have led to water aspiration. Maybe when the cleaners were hosing down the sides of the pool, I breathed the spray.
More on [ame="http://forums.deeperblue.net/showthread.php?t=66899"]this[/ame] thread.
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Lets not get too excited about asthma and swimming pools, the increase in asthma has been linked to a variety of factors, diet is a big suspect as well as envirormental factors.
It is well known that excema and asthma go hand in hand, that if you treat one allopathically the other will flare up. Patients never having had asthma have recieved treatment for their excema and ended up with asthma and visa versa. This is a problem with allopathic medicine, it supresses symptoms so they turn inward and then manifest as something else.
I swim regularly 4x a week, and occaisionally in the past i have experienced some of the symptoms Naiad has described, but i have put them down to overtraining which those symptoms can also be linked to. When this has happened I have cut back on other exertions (not the swimming) and they have dispersed pretty quickly, but that was obviously just in my instance.
There are pools that use filtration and cleaning methods other than chlorine etc, it may be worth having a look.
Just my 2 sheckles worth.
pelagicbeing
It is well known that excema and asthma go hand in hand, that if you treat one allopathically the other will flare up. Patients never having had asthma have recieved treatment for their excema and ended up with asthma and visa versa. This is a problem with allopathic medicine, it supresses symptoms so they turn inward and then manifest as something else.
I swim regularly 4x a week, and occaisionally in the past i have experienced some of the symptoms Naiad has described, but i have put them down to overtraining which those symptoms can also be linked to. When this has happened I have cut back on other exertions (not the swimming) and they have dispersed pretty quickly, but that was obviously just in my instance.
There are pools that use filtration and cleaning methods other than chlorine etc, it may be worth having a look.
Just my 2 sheckles worth.
pelagicbeing
I am putting the theory to the test by greatly reducing my exposure to chlorinated pools, but not changing anything else such as diet, exercise, dry static training and exposure to general pollution. If there is a definite improvement, it will almost certainly be down to the chlorine.
I have never had eczema or hayfever, and have never had any wheezing or other lung symptoms until the recent problem. I don't use any medication for any of those.
I have done much more physical work out of the pool than I have ever done in it, some of it would amount to a lot of training, and over a long time. I never had any symptoms like the ones I have had now. That was years ago, so it couldn't be the cumulative effect of that and the swimming.
Over the next few weeks I am going to see what happens and post any interesting results. So far there has been a great improvement, but I will wait and see if it continues.
I have never had eczema or hayfever, and have never had any wheezing or other lung symptoms until the recent problem. I don't use any medication for any of those.
I have done much more physical work out of the pool than I have ever done in it, some of it would amount to a lot of training, and over a long time. I never had any symptoms like the ones I have had now. That was years ago, so it couldn't be the cumulative effect of that and the swimming.
Over the next few weeks I am going to see what happens and post any interesting results. So far there has been a great improvement, but I will wait and see if it continues.
Glad to hear things are improving, I shall keep my fins crossed for you.I always chuckle at myself when i occiasionally train too much, and by the time i get to the weekend when i actually go diving feel worn out....i always have to remember why i am training : to maximise my pleasure and ability on my weekend dives.
Obviously we all train for different ends.
pelagicbeing