Choosing spear for dry barrel gun

[Diving Gecko]

H all,
I have decided to dry-barrel mod my Seac 90 Hunter (same as an Asso, newer looks) for a free shaft. Will go with either STC or Tomba, still undecided on that one.
But I need to find some good corrosion resistant spears first. My options are limited to what a few affordable online stores near Denmark is offering, so perhaps some of you have thoughts on the following spears:

Omersub, New America, 6.50/6.75mm (also "old" America in same thicknesses which is a bit cheaper)
Seatec, Extreme, 6.5/7.0mm
Salvimar, Torsion 2, 6.5mm
Salvimar, Squalo Sandvik 6.5/7.0 mm
I can also get Rob Allens in 6.5 and 7mm (but I have read that they rust?)

Also, if you have thoughts on the thickness, I am all ears. I'll be around reefs hoping for snappers but may also look for smaller pelagics, like Yellowtails (Kingfish) and GTs. Not looking for monsters at all, maybe 4-5 kgs tops.

All best,
David

 

[spar]

salvimar 7,00 mm

 

[Diving Gecko]

Great, thanks for your reply. They do look interesting, especially the Torsion 2 flipper design.
I think I will email them and ask if there is any difference in the material of the spear itself.
Forgot to ask in my original post if there are affordable spears made for dry barrels already (so, I don't have to cut, drill, lathe them)? I have heard that Sigalsub makes some but hard to find prices. Anyone else makes them?

 

[popgun pete]

Great, thanks for your reply. They do look interesting, especially the Torsion 2 flipper design.
I think I will email them and ask if there is any difference in the material of the spear itself.
Forgot to ask in my original post if there are affordable spears made for dry barrels already (so, I don't have to cut, drill, lathe them)? I have heard that Sigalsub makes some but hard to find prices. Anyone else makes them?

JBL (USA) make spring stainless steel spears for the "Cyrano", you only need to swap the spear tail if the taper is different for the "Asso/Hunter".

 

[Diving Gecko]

JBL (USA) make spring stainless steel spears for the "Cyrano", you only need to swap the spear tail if the taper is different for the "Asso/Hunter".

Hi Pete,
Thanks for chiming in.
Are you sure those would work? As I understand it, the spear tail (adaptor) is slightly bigger than the spear itself, so that the shooting line sliding ring doesn't come off. But I am looking to do a freeshaft modification so, I think the spear has to be the exact same thickness all along. A thicker tail would rip out the o-ring in the muzzle upon firing (or the spear might not be able to load at all as the o-ring would be matched to the thinner spear thickness rather than the thicker tail adaptor).

 

[foxfish]

If you are using a drilled free spear then you can choose any spear that is suitable for a band gun if there is enough length after cutting in front of the notches.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Hi Foxfish,
Thanks a lot for weighing in. I am indeed aware of having to buy long enough and then cutting off and shaping tail end and drilling for mono (but thanks for making sure, never hurts) - but my problem is that I don't know about the rust resistance of different brands. I am hoping once we are looking at 30-40 euros per spear, we are in the safe zone? I would hate to buy a spear that is known to be prone to rust and then having a leaking dry-barrel.

Also, and maybe this is for another thread, but would there be any idea in making the spear a bit longer? My thinking is, that with a dry barrel there should be enough ooompf for a spear with, say, a 10cm longer overhang than stock and that should add more kinetic impact to the spear. In general with dry barrel mods do people stick with original length of spear?

 

[foxfish]

I love the short spears in my 90 as it flies like a dart & obviously makes loading easier than a longer spear however I do use 100cm & 110cm spears. The 110 is 7mm & the 100 is 6.5 so there is quite a wieght difference in the spears. I much prefer the 100cm for my use.
All my air gun spears are double barb Omer black SS, never seen any rust on them or to be honest on any of the spears I own!

 

[Diving Gecko]

Thanks again Foxfish,
Great to hear that you have not had rust issues. That puts me at ease. I'll go with what is readily available. I like the idea of a 100cm/6.5mm. I guess that would roughly be 10 cm longer than stock. But still lighter or the same as original 8mm shaft, so I am sure still a lot of power left over from the dry barrel mod.
My problem is now only the shaft thickness. The 90cm is my only gun and as such has to do a bit of everything. I may have a trip coming up in a few months (pretty landlocked here in China, where having a speargun is illegal on top) and it will likely be on some very, very nice tropical reefs (sailboat cruise around the Andamans). But also a very strong chance of pelargics. For a lot of reasons, I have no need to hunt a monster (not enough experience, not the right gear, not enough people to eat it) but I would not mind landing a smaller GT, Kingfish, Cuda or Spanish Mackarel (perhaps up to 4-5 kgs). Would the 6.5mm be naive for that? I am talking to Marko about getting a Tomba with inserts for both 6.5mm and 7mm, so that might be an option, but having less options to worry about would just be nice as well.
As a side note, I am falling in love with the Salvimar Torsion 2 spear (italian link, but has pics). So clean, so hydrodynamic. People say good stuff about them.

(Maybe I should add that the gun is sitting in storage with a friend in Thailand - since bringing it to China was not an option. I know DB is strict in wanting its members to adhere to the laws in regards to spearing and I think that's the right approach)

 

[foxfish]

You need think about drilling the spear, where you place the hole & what size it will be as that will have an effect on spear choice & length

 

[foxfish]

I have seen some very inventive methods - here are two of my free shaft spears

 

[Diving Gecko]

Thanks for the pic. I will def go for hole right after the barb. I think that's the most simple. I may or may not run a slider on top of that. Some feel having the mono at the front impedes accuracy, others say not. But I guess there is an issue of the shaft more easily getting stuck between rocks. But, I am going for as simple as possible.
I just saw a pic on the link before about the Italian spearo. He shoots a 6.5mm and lands 6 kgs bass and 5kgs grouper and the spear seems to be OK with that. So, perhaps I would be OK with 6.5mm and then just stack 1-2 extra spears.
Allow me to theorize a bit on what bends a spear. Is it the fish being stuck on one end of it and the line at the other end that does it? Or does it not have anything to do with the line? Does the spear bend by the fish just swinging it about violently? If it is indeed caused by the line being on the opposite end of a fish that is stuck on the tip of it, then I am thinking there would less risk of spear bending with a freeshaft which has no slider but is only attached to the front. When a fish is on the spear, the line would come out of the hole in the fish and pull from there and not on an extreme end of the spear for leverage. (Dunno if that made any sence at all...)

 

[spar]

i am using spear on triton roller 100 PATHOS 120x8mm,and for oceanborn 125 TRYGON 7,2x160, in montenegro price is betwin 70 to 120€

 

[foxfish]

You are more likely to bend the spear while loading it - if you shoot a fish big enough to bend the spear then I would suggest that you celebrate not worry...
I would go for a 7mm if it were me!

 

[Diving Gecko]

Haha, very, very good point!
I have surfed the mighty interweb endlessly in past days on subject. Just re-visited STC site and saw that indeed they have freeshafts with holes drilled already in all the thicknesses we already discussed. I guess they are also making sure to use shafts which wont rust. Haven't asked for shipping prices yet, but the prices on the spears alone are less than my options for above spears. If they make them with tails for Seac and if shipping is fair, then that's the option I'll choose. I suspect they do as they offer their dry barrel kits for Seac. They even have 6.75mm and since I am all for compromise, perhaps there I have it. I will email them now. May still very well get Tomba for the muzzle over STC.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Oops, another question is coming up Foxfish and quite basic.
Why do you perfer double barbs?
I have spent this beautiful night with Miss Google Translate on Pesca Sub Blog - Pesca Sub in Apnea - Pesca Apnea - PescaSub - Pesca Subacquea and it seems some of the Italian spearos with freeshafts say it is more accurate with double barbs...

 

[foxfish]

I hunt flatfish, double barbs are so much better at holding the fish!

 

[popgun pete]

Hi Pete,
Thanks for chiming in.
Are you sure those would work? As I understand it, the spear tail (adaptor) is slightly bigger than the spear itself, so that the shooting line sliding ring doesn't come off. But I am looking to do a freeshaft modification so, I think the spear has to be the exact same thickness all along. A thicker tail would rip out the o-ring in the muzzle upon firing (or the spear might not be able to load at all as the o-ring would be matched to the thinner spear thickness rather than the thicker tail adaptor).

The JBL spears are manufactured from heat treated 17-4 PH (precipitation hardened) spring stainless steel. Basically you are buying the length of steel rod and either an integral tip (flopper pinned on the shaft) or a threaded tip for replaceable spear tips with floppers. The rear thread can be ground off if you don't want a stop on the spear tail, you just need a bench grinder to taper the rear end, or you can grind the tail adaptor. If you are shooting anywhere near rocks then I suggest a threaded tip because you are bound to slam the tip into a rock sooner or later and snap the pointed tip. Tips can be re-sharpened, but eventually they have insufficient material to work with. The JBL manufactured shafts have 6 mm screw threads, which is the common thread size on US spears. A freeshaft sounds OK until you have to find it when you miss. On some bottom terrain it will be easy, like over sand stretches where you can still see it, but on a seaweed strewn bottom the shaft can vanish, especially with surge whipping the fronds back and forth and making it difficult to hold your position while you scan the bottom. If you dive in mill pond like sea conditions or over a relatively bare bottom then free shaft, but otherwise expect to lose shafts as ultimately you have to abandon the search or your dive will become a recovery mission instead of a fish hunt. With one shaft it will be a recovery mission or the dive will be over unless you carry two guns or two spears.

A lot of advice is given against the background of where individuals fish without explaining what that background is, so what suits them may not suit you or anyone else if your hunting situation is different to their situation. What seems to be conflicting advice is often a reflection of their particular hunting situation.

 

[Diving Gecko]

Hi Pete,
Thanks as always for adding to this.
I might have chosen the wrong word - but with 'freeshaft', I don't mean that it does not have a shooting line, though it could surely sound like it. I think the places I have read about the dry barrel mods, then when people go for a shaft with no washer and slider, they tend to call it a freeshaft. So, the shooting line is attached just behind the barbs. Should make it easier to find the spear
Good point on just being able to grind the tail end. Marko who makes the Tombas actually said that as well, but then I think I saw a lathe on his video so wasn't sure whether a grinder was precise enough - good to hear, I shouldn't be worried about that. Still leaves the hole to be drilled for the shooting line. Which is still doable with a good bench drill and carbide bits. Just that I have come across at least one spear manufacturer who makes freeshafts and the price is the same or less than having to buy an oversized notched or finned shaft and modifying it. Working on figuring out how pricing looks with shipping.

In reg. to the dry barrel kit itself, I like that Marko and his dad is pushing this development and make it themselves. Also, Marko is cheaper than the STC kit, I am looking at, but since I am looking at buying parts so I can run two different kinds of shaft diameters, STC and Tomba (Marko) actually end up being the same. So, still undecided on this part of it. But I'm sure both kits are totally fine.

Thanks again,
david

 

[tromic]

Hi Pete,
...
In reg. to the dry barrel kit itself, I like that Marko and his dad is pushing this development and make it themselves. Also, Marko is cheaper than the STC kit, I am looking at, but since I am looking at buying parts so I can run two different kinds of shaft diameters, STC and Tomba (Marko) actually end up being the same. So, still undecided on this part of it. But I'm sure both kits are totally fine.

Thanks again,
david

Regarding "free shaft" kits:
Tomba and STC x-power are same only because they are both vacuum barrel kits. That is all!
Tomba is hand made, custom design. STC is factory; CNC made product.
Tomba is just for one shaft diameter. STC might be used for different shaft diameters, for example 6.5; 6.75; 7 mm...
Tomba uses one O-ring for shaft sealing. STC uses one special shape cross section sealing.