CMAS World Championships

[wizards]

PS as a footnote for those who want info about Bari. It was not so much a world championship for any of the sports it was more a European championship.

Have a look at the ratio of Europeans to any other continent, and CMAS call themselves a world organisation. I think not, outside of Europe it is CMAS who?

 

[trux]

I think their arrogance and the narrow-mindedness will break their necks once. It was for that reasons already that PADI took over scuba years ago in most countries, and if they don't radically change, other sports will follow one after the other.

As for the court battles - I see the problems; it's a real nightmare fighting against such a fossil giant. But trying a civil court, suing them for financial damages may be a more viable way - I still think that consulting an experienced lawyer may be worth of it.

 

[Billextreme]

Maybe we should start a special U/W hockey department inside of AIDA...

;-)

 

[fabrice]

FYI, the french national federation (FFESSM) is taking CMAS to the CAS because of the disqualification of Christophe Bruel in DYN.

 

[cebaztian]

As far as I know CMAS is a non profit organization. Its absolutly volontary to seek membership with them. Let them have what rules that pleases them (and their members). Only their own members can change their own organization. Give their childish behaviour some slack and be ready to welcome them into future cooperation. Whenever that may be.

Sebastian

In the long run Aikido works better than boxing and less people get hurt.

 

[LEVENTUCUZAL]

Per CMAS rules this year any competitor who are attended to any Non CMAS competition couldn't contribute to the competition (the same branch) such as dynamic. This also happened to some athletes from Crotia and Venezualle as well as Ecuador. But they were allowed to go in Jump Blue.

For the other question; the total number of athletes were around 40 for each branch jump blue and dynamic. You can get the results from CMAS home page.

cheers.

 

[trux]

As far as I know CMAS is a non profit organization. Its absolutly volontary to seek membership with them. Let them have what rules that pleases them (and their members). Only their own members can change their own organization. Give their childish behaviour some slack and be ready to welcome them into future cooperation. Whenever that may be

Easy to tell, but in some countries your club simply won't get any pool time unless it is registered with the federation. You may also have trouble to get insurance cover in those countries if you are not member of the federation. And there are many other problems involved. Well, you are right that it cannot stop you from freediving or training in other ways, but it definitely makes it much more difficult.

 

[wizards]

I would be interested to hear how by not being a member of a federation you can be stopped from getting pool time and also stopped from obtaining insurance? I only know of 2 European federations that actively channel money through government or IOC grants to the various sports.

This is a myth that CMAS use as a scare tactic to hold on to members. IADA rose from the ashes of CMAS so there is a valuable history lesson there for CMAS and if they ignore it they are bound to relive it.

One thing for sure the new hockey world body wont be banning anyone from competing, Sport is for all.

 

[trux]

Sorry, but that's not a myth, it is a sad reality. Just read through the thread to see the facts.

As for the first question - I am not sure how exactly it works in other lands, but for example in France (and it may be quite similar in many other European countries), freediving clubs are governed by FFESSM (branch of CMAS). No non-FFESSM club will be admitted to any pool. It is as simple as that. Well, now you may be able to find some private pools that would accept you, but even if you manage to find one (which is questionable), it will be likely extremely expensive. Same goes for the insurance - normally you are being insured though an insurance agency having agreement with FFESSM. I doubt they will insure you individually if you are not a member of FFESSM. Again, you may be able to find another insurance, but as soon as you tell them that the official FFESSM insurance agency does not want to insure you, you can be pretty sure they either refuse you, or offer an extremely expensive insurance.

 

[wizards]

Hi Trux as I said in my earlier post I know of 2 federations only in Europe and one of them is FFESSM which has a turnover of 3,000.000 Euros a year, that can exert that much pressure, the other is the Italian federation/

FFESSM is not like any other federation because they have the sole rights to fishing licenses and also have the biggest diving instructor agencies.

As I said earlier I still believe that there is only 2 federations like this. But having said this I bet Apnea does not receive grant funds from FFESSM that are only available because of the federations link to CMAS and the IOC, and if by some chance you do I would love to know what stipulations are put on them.

 

[trux]

Well, I do not know if it is really only two countries where CMAS has that level of power, but even if France and Italy were the only ones, it is already quite bad - in these two countries there are very likely more organized freedivers than in all the rest of the world combined. The sad result effect of the CMAS policies is that you do not see as much of Italian or French athletes on AIDA's ranking lists as those countries could provide (virtually no Italians at all, and relatively few French).

And no, we do not get any grants from CMAS/FFESSM or IOC, but the fact that you won't get pool time or insurance without being a federation member is already sufficient for the discrimination - no grants needed for that.

 

[JPPLAY]

There is a split in France now with some of the top French divers competing in the FIPSA World Championship Spearfishing competition instead of CMAS. I don't know if they formed another organization or if the French spearfisherman are trying to get away from CMAS.

 

[chrismar]

There is a split in France now with some of the top French divers competing in the FIPSA World Championship Spearfishing competition instead of CMAS. I don't know if they formed another organization or if the French spearfisherman are trying to get away from CMAS.

I believe those that competed in the FIPSA WC were banned from all CMAS events (all sports) for a year. Not so good.

 

[JPPLAY]

I believe those that competed in the FIPSA WC were banned from all CMAS events (all sports) for a year. Not so good.

I don't know how long the ban was but I do know the Canadians that competed were banned from CMAS events. I assumed it was just spearfishing events didn't think they would ban someone from all the events. I don't know what to say.

 

[ADR]

I'd feel quite good about a CMAS ban. How do I apply for one?

 

[wizards]

Its easy just be president of one of their commissions and dont agree with what they do.

 

[shoutatthesky]

What? CMAS has the power to stop you gaining entrance to an aquatic facility in France if you are not one of their members or a member of another organisation? Does the chief of CMAS have a funny little moustache too?

If this is the case it is a sad situation. In New Zealand if I was turned away from a public pool for non-membership of a particular club I would be able to take them to the Human Rights Commission and have the pool owners tried for breaching my human rights.
I take it from your comments Trux that the solution in your country would be a federal prosecution for monopolistic behaviour? If so then this action needs to be instigated with haste!

 

[chrismar]

What? CMAS has the power to stop you gaining entrance to an aquatic facility in France if you are not one of their members or a member of another organisation? Does the chief of CMAS have a funny little moustache too?

If this is the case it is a sad situation. In New Zealand if I was turned away from a public pool for non-membership of a particular club I would be able to take them to the Human Rights Commission and have the pool owners tried for breaching my human rights.
I take it from your comments Trux that the solution in your country would be a federal prosecution for monopolistic behaviour? If so then this action needs to be instigated with haste!

Not quite. To train, they need to be affiliated. It's passed off as a safety thing and there's little that you can do about it. The human rights commission wouldn't find in your favour, not in Europe and not here in NZ.

 

[shoutatthesky]

No facility in NZ has the right to deny me ENTRY based on which club I am affiliated with. They have the right to deny me entry if they deem my activities, or the manner in which they are conducted in to be dangerous.

"To train, they need to be affiliated." affiliated with who? My small group are not affiliated with anyone and we are granted entry for freediving activities based on us following their safety rules.

 

[chrismar]

No facility in NZ has the right to deny me ENTRY based on which club I am affiliated with. They have the right to deny me entry if they deem my activities, or the manner in which they are conducted in to be dangerous.

"To train, they need to be affiliated." affiliated with who? My small group are not affiliated with anyone and we are granted entry for freediving activities based on us following their safety rules.

They can deny you entry, as I said, based on safety concerns. Actually, they won't deny entry, just prevent you from doing any breath-hold training. NZ is very relaxed compared with the rest of the world, yet there are still places that prevent us from training. Kilbernie is reluctant at best, yet I'll be there tonight playing underwater hockey. They permit UWH because of agreements between them and UWHNZ/NZUA/CMAS, same as the guys in Europe being allowed to train because of agreements with CMAS.